The Le Pens, The French Political Gift that keeps on giving.

**gaelic cowboy** · 01-19-2011, 15:54

TBH Frag it is even more complicated than that much of what the Left campaigned for like workers rights education health blah blah is just seen as part of normal society now and pretty much all rightwing european parties see it as a benefit to the economy.

I see the real problem for the Left being it's reliance on state employees as voters, once they start to agitate for what ever reason it affects us all and it annoys the hell out of people.

**Furunculus** · 01-19-2011, 16:09

indeed, the client state has always been a problem with labour.

**rory_20_uk** · 01-19-2011, 16:21

Yes, what used to be a matter for Parliament is now a matter for the Judiciary as demands have become laws. You can't campaign on preventing 18 hour days for 12 year old children, most forms of discrimination or dangers in the workplace as most of this is routinely taken care of, with the few issues not covered are overseen by a governmental agency.

So, what's left?

Protecting jobs. Except that that is Protectionism, is against International law and generally fails to work.
Protecting people's rights? Oh, but then we also have to be open to all cultures who often discriminate on gender and religion as a matter of course. Better leave that one alone.
Protecting the countryside? Well, maybe. Except we need loads more houses for the poor, and the Rich generally own the land so building loads of houses is a good idea... but it isn't green so it is a bad idea...
Education? Most studies have shown that improving the standing of teachers and teacher salaries makes more of a difference than reducing class sizes... but that will increase income disparity which is bad and will stop us becoming a classless utopia.
Law and order? Clearly that is a bad thing. Police are by definition Right Wing and thus need sorting out. More minorities... except that it's discrimination to do so, and so technically against the law...
Encouraging Industry? Tough one that. Clearly we need more Industry as it provides people with jobs, but this will only encourage Industrialists who are also a Bad Thing as they earn too much. Nationalised companies like in the 1960's / 70's? Except that it was probably on average cheaper to have people on the dole.
Helping Farmers? We could do. As long as they're not too rich. Else they are suspiciously like Landed Gentry who are Bad. and we can't pay them to make the countryside look like as this only benefits the Middle / Upper classes, not the working classes who can't be bothered to go to the countryside. But protecting the countryside is a good Green thing to do, and producing food locally is also good. Perhaps we could have a department to ensure only farmers earning below a certain threshold and with farms below a certain size get assistance.
Armed Forces? Definitely Bad. Class-based. Although people do seem to support their local regiments. The people are clearly Wrong in this and need to be Re-Educated.

So, we're left with increasing the size of government as that is a Good Thing as who can argue against more support workers for every disadvantaged group, and it helps soak up unemployment at the same time.
NHS. Aaaah, the NHS. Like an infinite sponge, it can absorb almost all money that is thrown at it. We can campaign to throw more money at it.

**Furunculus** · 01-19-2011, 16:36

Originally Posted by rory_20_uk

Yes, what used to be a matter for Parliament is now a matter for the Judiciary as demands have become laws. You can't campaign on preventing 18 hour days for 12 year old children, most forms of discrimination or dangers in the workplace as most of this is routinely taken care of, with the few issues not covered are overseen by a governmental agency.

So, what's left?

Protecting jobs. Except that that is Protectionism, is against International law and generally fails to work.
Protecting people's rights? Oh, but then we also have to be open to all cultures who often discriminate on gender and religion as a matter of course. Better leave that one alone.
Protecting the countryside? Well, maybe. Except we need loads more houses for the poor, and the Rich generally own the land so building loads of houses is a good idea... but it isn't green so it is a bad idea...
Education? Most studies have shown that improving the standing of teachers and teacher salaries makes more of a difference than reducing class sizes... but that will increase income disparity which is bad and will stop us becoming a classless utopia.
Law and order? Clearly that is a bad thing. Police are by definition Right Wing and thus need sorting out. More minorities... except that it's discrimination to do so, and so technically against the law...
Encouraging Industry? Tough one that. Clearly we need more Industry as it provides people with jobs, but this will only encourage Industrialists who are also a Bad Thing as they earn too much. Nationalised companies like in the 1960's / 70's? Except that it was probably on average cheaper to have people on the dole.
Helping Farmers? We could do. As long as they're not too rich. Else they are suspiciously like Landed Gentry who are Bad. and we can't pay them to make the countryside look like as this only benefits the Middle / Upper classes, not the working classes who can't be bothered to go to the countryside. But protecting the countryside is a good Green thing to do, and producing food locally is also good. Perhaps we could have a department to ensure only farmers earning below a certain threshold and with farms below a certain size get assistance.
Armed Forces? Definitely Bad. Class-based. Although people do seem to support their local regiments. The people are clearly Wrong in this and need to be Re-Educated.

So, we're left with increasing the size of government as that is a Good Thing as who can argue against more support workers for every disadvantaged group, and it helps soak up unemployment at the same time.
NHS. Aaaah, the NHS. Like an infinite sponge, it can absorb almost all money that is thrown at it. We can campaign to throw more money at it.

lulz, that made me giggle. nice·

[edit] can anyone tell me how i accidental made that hovering dot at the end of "nice"? [/edit]

**Louis VI the Fat** · 01-19-2011, 17:02

Originally Posted by Furunculus

[edit] can anyone tell me how i accidental made that hovering dot at the end of "nice"? [/edit]

'·.·' · '·.·' · '·.·' · '·.·' · '·.·' · '·.·' · '·.·' · '·.·' · '·.·' · '·.·' · '·.·' · '·.·' · '·.·' · '·.·' · '·.·' · '·.·' · '·.·' · '·.·' · '·.·' · '·.·' · '·.·' · '·.·' · '·.·' · '·.·' · '·.·' · '·.·' · '·.·' · '·.·' · '·.·' · '·.·' · '·.·' · '·.·' · '·.·' · '·.·'

You mean floating dots, like this '· · ·' ?

Nah, I couldn't tell you ·

.·'·. · .·'·. · .·'·. · .·'·. · .·'·. · .·'·. · .·'·. · .·'·. · .·'·. · .·'·. · .·'·. · .·'·. · .·'·. · .·'·. · .·'·. · .·'·. · .·'·. · .·'·. · .·'·. · .·'·. · .·'·. · .·'·. · .·'·. · .·'·. · .·'·. · .·'·. · .·'·. · .·'·. · .·'·. · .·'·. · .·'·. · .·'·. · .·'·.

**Furunculus** · 01-19-2011, 17:05

damn you!

**Vladimir** · 01-21-2011, 15:49

I know how: '·.·' · '·.·'

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

**Rhyfelwyr** · 01-21-2011, 16:33

It's in Word, type 2219 then alt+x.

**Fragony** · 01-19-2011, 16:23

Originally Posted by gaelic cowboy

TBH Frag it is even more complicated than that much of what the Left campaigned for like workers rights education health blah blah is just seen as part of normal society now and pretty much all rightwing european parties see it as a benefit to the economy.

I see the real problem for the Left being it's reliance on state employees as voters, once they start to agitate for what ever reason it affects us all and it annoys the hell out of people.

I think it's safe to assume that for those going to the right immigration is priority, if you are a social-democrate the likes like FN or BNP are a big step. Immigration used to be a problem only for the lower classes but middle-class is now starting to notice it as well, it's really the middle class they are losing, that is always byebye. And you are right about dependence on the vote of goverment workers, the guys who inform you your shed is 20 cm too high

**gaelic cowboy** · 01-19-2011, 16:32

To take an example of relative decline of the left we will know the extreme right has evolved into a new force if it is capable in the UK of making common cause between the native english and the first and second generation Irish. Many Irish still have ties to the homeland through family even to third generation thats a huge demographic of potential voters who are naturally rural conservative. I see it more and more that BNP and extreme types talk of more hazy concepts like judeo-christainity blah blah and allowing people from the "Home Islands" as they style them to stay.

**Fragony** · 01-19-2011, 16:56

Originally Posted by gaelic cowboy

To take an example of relative decline of the left we will know the extreme right has evolved into a new force if it is capable in the UK of making common cause between the native english and the first and second generation Irish. Many Irish still have ties to the homeland through family even to third generation thats a huge demographic of potential voters who are naturally rural conservative. I see it more and more that BNP and extreme types talk of more hazy concepts like judeo-christainity blah blah and allowing people from the "Home Islands" as they style them to stay.

FN and BNP are absolute scum they blame immigrants for poor policy, that is wrong and stupid, but labour is like a mammoth-tanker heading to an iceberg with almost empty tanks but it's too costly to divert direction as it costs even more fuel. If they want to get back to their values they would have to kthxbye their new ones.