[EB AAR] Pontos Rising

[Octavian I]

Really good AAR, definently one of the better ones i've looked at so far :).

[FriendlyFire]

@vollorix: Don't worry about posting your own progress, I'm not trying to keep this thread "pure" or anything! I like hearing how others have fought the same campaign. I'm like you in that I can't just sit there for decades, waiting for other powers to build up, at least not without a good role-playing reason. Later on you'll see one method I use to soak up the extra income from all the mines - those "powerful advisors" really come in handy :)

I've tried a couple of Pontic campaign starts where after securing Asia Minor I marched from Syria straight down to Egypt, but this time around I think I'm going to keep my hands off Antiocheia for as long as possible, and let the Syrian Wars play out between the Ptolemaioi and Arche Seleukeia. Who knows, maybe they'll even rebuild their elite MIC in Antiocheia.

@Blacksmith: I really SHOULD have some chariots, shouldn't I? Can't call it a Pontic campaign without them.

@Octavian: Thanks - and welcome to the forum!

[FriendlyFire]

Chapter 9: The Battles of the Bridges

Before Ariobarzanes Kianos could make any further conquests in Asia Minor, he first had to deal with a renewed threat from the Arche Seleukeia. For the fragile peace with the Seleukids could not last, and in the spring of 264 BC they sent small forces to besiege the town of Tarsos on the coastal plains, and also against a mountain fort near Mazaka.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The first two sieges of Tarsos were easily repelled by its garrison, led by Ariarathes Herakleotes the Hellen. As a result of these battles Ariarathes was becoming ever more zealous in his support for the king.

When a third and much larger Seleukid force was spotted approaching Tarsos, Ariarathes realized that in a normal field battle they would inflict many casualties on his small garrison force, because the enemy archers could attack with impunity. He therefore marched his phalangites out of Tarsos to guard the nearby bridge, while recruiting a small contingent of Gallic mercenaries to control the town itself. The Seleukid force accepted the challenge and attacked at once.

As the battle opened, Ariarathes ordered his troops to form an interlocking phalanx blocking the exit from the bridge, and then wheeled his horse around to stand behind them with his bodyguards. The Seleukid archers rained arrows upon him from across the river, but his heavy armor saved Ariarathes from injury, and by this action he also spared his phalangites from missile fire. Meanwhile the Seleukid infantry marched across the bridge and began trying to push through the phalanx formation. They included many troops unfamiliar to the Pontic army, including phalangites in armor much heavier than their own, and spearmen from the east who carried very large wicker shields with which to protect their bodies.

It was at this point that the Gallic mercenaries, after force-marching from the town, arrived to reinforce Ariarathes. He quickly sent them across a ford on one flank. By now the enemy archers had run out of arrows and had joined the back of the general melee. They were therefore the first to fall as the Gallic mercenaries took control of the Seleukid end of the bridge and began cutting their way across.

As the battle wore on, the Seleukids found themselves unable to leave the bridge, facing sarissas on one end and Gallic longswords on the other. Gradually they were hemmed into a smaller and smaller area until finally almost all were cut down. Only a few survived, jumping into the river to escape.

Having now lost three successive armies , the Seleukids gave up their attempt to take Tarsos. However, their push towards Mazaka continued. The small Pontic fort in the mountains fell after two seasons, with the defenders being slaughtered to a man, but those two seasons allowed Ariobarzanes Kianos to bring most of his army back from Ankyra. He used this army to hold the crucial bridge that was the last obstacle before Mazaka itself, and here the Seleukids attacked him in 264 BC.

The bridge had no nearby fords that could be used to flank the enemy, and the battle therefore was a straight pushing match. The Seleukids had more men, but many of their troops were lightly armed, and the Pontic phalanx was once again blocking the exit from the bridge.

The Seleukid captain kept his cavalry in reserve for most of the battle. When he finally committed them the eastern horsemen almost managed to break through the phalanx, but Ariobarzanes had waited for this moment and sent in his thureophoroi, also kept in reserve. The thureophoroi's spears stiffened the center of the line and brought down many of the cavalry, routing the rest. Seeing that the battle was lost, the Seleukid captain ordered a general withdrawal.

Two great bridge battles in two years had now broken the back of the Seleukid advance, and although there was to be no further ceasefire, the threat they posed at least receded for a while.

[FriendlyFire]

LOL - I messed up the chapter numbers already! And although I can edit the text, it looks like I can't edit the subject line, so that will always stay as "Chapter 9". Ah well, just pretend there's a mysterious missing "Chapter 8" out there.

[FriendlyFire]

Chapter 10: The Two Brothers

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

With his flanks now secure, Ariobarzanes Kianos turned his attention to the north coast of Asia Minor, near where the mountains of the Caucasus meet the Black Sea. There were many Hellenic colonists here, centered around the towns of Sinope and Trapezous, and the trade that their ports provided would be a major boost to the Pontic economy. A small Pontic army therefore marched north from Amaseia to "persuade" these Hellenes to accept a new king. Sinope would be the first to fall.

The army was led by Arsames Kianos (last seen in Chapter 4), for Ariobarzanes wanted to see if there was any truth to the rumors about the cowardliness of his younger brother. Arsames knew what was required of him, and assaulted the walls of Sinope with wooden rams in the spring of 261 BC. The defenders were led by Aigicoros of the Paphlagone, a veteran commander who had more men than Arsames but who had nothing to match the Pontic phalangites.

Despite their longer spears, the Pontic army found itself in a desperate struggle as soon as they breached the walls. Aigicoros inspired the Paphlagone to great feats, and they fought valiantly against the phalangites who sought to take away their homes and impose a new king upon them.

The best of the defenders were professional hoplites of the old style, and these came near to flanking the Pontic phalanx that was trying to breach the main street. Pontic thureophoroi, Hellenic troops of the new style, were sent in to support the phalanx but could not break the hoplites.

However, the thureophoroi gave the phalanx a chance to reform, and meanwhile Arsames had sent his Gallic mercenaries down an unguarded side street. From here they found their way back onto the main street, and fell upon the hoplites from behind. Once again an enemy of Pontos found itself trapped between sarissas and longswords.

Aigicoros and the last of his professional hoplites died defending the main street, leaving only hoplites levied from the townsfolk to hold their square. Attacked from two sides by phalangites who they couldn't outreach, and hacked at by the longswords of the Gauls, they fought until honor was satisfied and then laid down their arms.

Thus was Sinope in the province of Paphlagonia added to the Pontic kingdom. Arsames had won a clear victory, and more importantly his valor in combat had laid to rest the old rumors.

Much encouraged by this news of his younger brother, and feeling the thrill of war coursing through his veins once again, Ariobarzanes reclaimed command of the army for the march along the coast towards Trapezous. Due to the time taken to replace the army's losses, and the lack of roads in the province of Pontos Paralios around Trapezous, it was the summer of 259 BC before he could besiege the town.

His spies brought worrying news, for the kingdom of Hayasdan was also expanding, and while Ariobarzanes dawdled on the coast, inland an army of Hayasdan sought to add the town of Ani-Kamah to their realm. Ariobarzanes therefore assaulted Trapezous as soon as rams were made. The town was defended by Neoptolemos of the Tzanoi, another veteran commander with more men but nothing that could match Pontic phalangites.

As he spoke to his army before the battle, and exhorted them to feats of valor, the blood lust took Ariobarzanes. The world around him seemed to fade away, and the shouted questions from his subordinates sounded as if they were whispered from a distant hilltop. Fortunately his battle-plan needed few changes. Later, he was dimly aware that there had been a great success in seizing the main gate, and that one phalanx had entered and then stood firm in the main street, killing all before it.

And he was told, but did not comprehend at the time, that when defending hoplites tried to approach from the flank, they were blocked by Pontic thureophoroi, and then themselves flanked.

For what Ariobarzanes wanted was single combat, and he found it in a charge down the main street, crushing the hoplites before him into the waiting phalanx. And from there a charge to the square, his troops racing to keep up, hunting down the hoplites wherever they could be found.

Eventually there seemed to be no enemies left, and his troops were cheering, and the world came back into focus, and Ariobarzanes Kianos the warmonger found that he had captured Trapezous.

But while one brother gloried in combat, the other still found it distasteful. Although no-one would now call Arsames a coward, it was increasingly obvious that he was more suited to city life than out on the campaign trail.

[Titus Marcellus Scato]

I think you're making things way too easy for yourself fighting large bridge battles - taking advantage of the AI's inability to fight such a battle with anything remotely resembling intelligence. It's better to fight battles in the open field, especially with phalangites.

I occassionally fight on bridges, but only with 'rearguard' forces of one or two units - one melee and one missile, to delay the enemy crossing rather than prevent it. Otherwise I deploy my army at the rear edge of the battlefield in such a way so as to let the enemy cross the bridge unhindered, and then fight them once they're across. It's more fun that way, really.

It's also more fun to besiege an enemy town with an army small enough to make the enemy sally out when you end the turn. Fighting them outside the walls is a lot more realistic and fun than fighting inside the town. I only assault if the enemy has a really small garrison of four units or less.

[FriendlyFire]

No argument about the bridge battles - it's a cheap tactic to survive in the early game. Not so sure about town assaults: I think defending against a sally is often easier than figuring out how to fight your way through the various defenders in the streets, especially if they have a good commander to boost their morale.

I was also about 30 years further on in the campaign, so you'd be seeing a lot more of the same types of battles. However, I don't really like the way the world turned out: I was pumping all of my mine revenues into Pahlava to keep the only other anti-Seleukid power alive, the Lusotanna had just captured Rome, and the Greeks and the Getai were attacking me through Epeirote territory despite not being allied to them. Plus I had a lot of writing to do before I could catch up to the present moment! So... I'm going to restart the campaign from just after the capture of Trapezous. Won't affect the story, but I'll be able to take more risks in the battles, and maybe the world will turn out differently this time :) (Thankfully I save every season, so it's really easy to go back and redo history like this)

[Titus Marcellus Scato]

I was also fed up with AI Rome being pasted every game by some AI faction - so I've given all Roman legionary units 2 secondary hitpoints to make them as tough as horsearchers in autoresolve battles. So I can still kill AI Rome - manual battles still play as normal - but no AI faction can manage it.

[vollorix]

Hm, i´ve given Romans a 0 turn recruitment for Princeps, Hastati and Triari ( reducing the unit size of Triari and Pedites by half ), it seems to work quite well in earlier stages, but i can´t confirm any success of those changes for a longer timeframe, yet. It´s quite funny - normaly it´s the Lusos who manage to destroy Romans, but never any of the two Gaulic factions. I still somehow suspect the "ap" weapons of the Lusos responsible for that... But in my current Pontus game ( i had liftet the FoW incidently ) Carthies seem to expand in Spain, while Lusos are on defence ( but it was still the year 245 b.c. ). I´ve also noticed a slight Sauromatae drawback expansion wise: normaly they were able to grab Crimea quite fast, but in all my later games they seem to have some troubles with it, while Getai are quite successfull ( beeing able to take and keep Olbia, for instance ). I should continiue that game to see the outcome, though. ( playing on H/M on Ferromancers BI.exe with Konnie´s traits adjustments ).

[FriendlyFire]

Interesting pro-Roman campaign fixes! I might try one of those two alterations if they get in trouble again in this campaign, but so far they're doing much better. The Sauro do seem oddly lethargic - are they generally just crippled economically, and thus permanently stuck?

[FriendlyFire]

Chapter 11: Negotiating with Pyrrhos

Although he had just conquered the north coast of Asia Minor, Ariobarzanes Kianos still wanted more. Putting down some minor rebel incursions did not satisfy his lust for war, and only a year passed before he sought once more to expand his kingdom's borders.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

A Pontic diplomat who had crossed the Hellespont into the lands of Thrace provided the opening. The diplomat sent word to Ariobarzanes that he had encountered the great Pyrrhos of Epeiros, at the head of an army led by huge and frightening beasts from the east. Pyrrhos clearly had both the will and the army necessary to seize power in the area. Ariobarzanes sent back word to negotiate an immediate truce with Pyrrhos. He offered peace between the two kingdoms in return for separate spheres of influence. Epeiros would control all lands on one side of the Hellespont, including the town of Byzantion which had once asked Pontos for help (see chapter 6), while Pontos would have free reign over all lands in Asia Minor. Pyrrhos agreed, and trade resumed between the two kingdoms.

Wanting to immediately secure the new borders, Ariobarzanes marched with his army towards the town of Nikaia, which sat across the straits from Byzantion. This was in the lands of the Bithynoi. The Pergamese general Alkibiades again closely shadowed the Pontic army from across the border, but did not attempt to interfere as Ariobarzanes laid siege to Nikaia.

Since his army was appreciably smaller than the garrison, Ariobarzanes expected the defenders to sally immediately and offer battle. Instead they sought safety within their walls. Ariobarzanes feared the Thracian rhomphias wielded by some of the defenders, and especially the effect they might have on his cumbersome phalanx formations if caught off guard within the narrow town streets, so he chose to starve the town out instead of assaulting it.

And thus it was more than a year before the battle finally took place, against defenders weakened by hunger. They were led by Moskon, a young general of some skill, and although they had lost almost a quarter of their strength to starvation they were still equal in number to the army of Ariobarzanes.

Ariobarzanes had chosen his ground well, setting up his battering rams on a downward slope leading to the walls. As the Bithnyoi ran past these, they found themselves having to fight uphill, while arrows streaked overhead from Caucasian archers behind the Pontic line.

Moskon led his bodyguards against one flank, but their charge could not break the experienced thureophoroi stationed there. After losing many men, Moskon was forced to break off the fight and return to behind his own lines, cheering his men on as they struggled to break through the phalanx.

Following his opponent around the flank, Ariobarzanes now led his own bodyguard in a headlong charge against Moskon. The heavier Pontic cavalry, with the slope in their favor, pinned Moskon against a ram and killed him in the first moments of the charge.

The death of their general broke the will of the Bithynoi army, and the survivors fled for the safety of their city. Ariobarzanes hacked his way through them, leading his bodyguards to capture the gate.

Only a few defenders survived the rout and the melee at the gate to make a final desperate stand on the square. The flag of the Bithynoi did not fly for long, as Ariobarzanes charged home - and victory had been obtained very cheaply.

And thus in 258 BC the kingdom of Pontos now encompassed almost the whole of Asia Minor. On the west coast Alkibiades still defended the great mines of Pergamon, and the Antigonid kingdom of Makedonia had a colony at Mytilene, but these were minor threats. Let Pyrrhos have Byzantion - Pontos was secure.

The world in 258 BC:

[I tried to get the defenders to sally before they starved, even replaced Ariobarzanes with a zero-star FM, but they just weren't falling for it. When I saw the slope I understood why - I really didn't need two phalanxes. Meanwhile the world is developing nicely. An early rebellion has put Saba at war with the Seleukids, Makedonia has been crippled by Pyrrhos, both the Lusos and the Aedui are off to fast starts, and Baktria and Pahlava are holding their own in the east.]

[Titus Marcellus Scato]

Sorry to tell you this, but historically phalanxes didn't fight on steep hills, only gentle slopes. Holding the long sarissa pike at the right angle was very difficult on steep slopes, even when facing downwards.

Your army should have been positioned a lot closer to the walls, where it's flat. You'll have more fun by giving the AI a fighting chance, instead of going for the maximum advantage possible against the computer which is too stupid to take advantage of terrain the way you can.

Unfortunately, despite being well written and beautifully illustrated with wonderful images, this AAR is becoming boring for me since you're winning the battles so easily. Sinope was the only one where you had any difficulty at all.

[FriendlyFire]

I'm further along in the campaign, so I'm afraid there'll be more phalangites-on-slopes images to come before I can adapt. Want me to PM you when I get a heroic on the flat? :) I'll think about throwing in some different line troops as well, to get a more historic Pontic mix, but I'm not sure I can have fun fighting e.g. klerouchoi agema without some phalangites of my own. Anyway, thanks for all your feedback so far - it made me restart after chapter 10, and this world is looking much more interesting as a result (and hence more likely to keep me playing).

[Lazy O]

AI stupidity unavoidable. Only legit way of making it fair is to put your army under AI control.Controlling the General yourself. I tried it once for my AAR, but got boring.

[FriendlyFire]

Chapter 12: Across the Pontos Euxinus

The capture of Trapezous on the northern coast of Asia Minor (see chapter 10) had provided Pontos with its first port capable of constructing naval vessels, and Ariobarzanes Kianos' restless eyes now looked overseas for conquest. The town of Chersonesos, a Hellenic colony across the Pontos Euxinus, still asked for help against the invading horse-bands of the Sauromatae, and thus in 253 BC the first Pontic fleet was constructed. Although admittedly it was not a very impressive sight…

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Setting sail with his small but veteran army, Ariobarzanes found on arrival at Chersonesos that its Hellenic colonists still proclaimed their independence. The Sauromatae invaders had, it seemed, captured the neighboring town of Pantikapaion instead. This change of plans irritated Ariobarzanes, who was already grumpy from the long voyage. Sailing along the coastline until he found the captured town, he landed and immediately besieged the Sauromatae invaders.

The ruler of Pantikapaion was Phidas, a young noble of the Saitae. Part of the great migration of horse-tribes from the east, he had abandoned his nomadic ways and settled in this province, seeing the chance of carving out a new life for himself and his descendants.

However, Phidas had only managed to train a handful of foot-archers to garrison Pantikapaion, whereas Ariobarzanes had brought an army expecting to face a much larger force. This was not to be a fair fight.

Not wishing to find out if the Saitae would send true horse-archers to support their settled kin, Ariobarzanes ordered an assault on the walled town as soon as ladders could be made. The promised assistance from the rebels of Chersonesos had not appeared, which only darkened his mood.

Despite the high walls of stone, the troops reported that the inside of the town was now reminiscent of a barbarian hill fort. And although they encountered no resistance on the walls itself, they were harassed from afar by Phidas and his bodyguards, who shot arrows at them from the safety of a central mound.

Only when the gates were opened and Pontic thureophoroi poured in did Phidas lead his bodyguards down the hill. For a time it looked as if they might push the spearmen back outside the walls, but Ariobarzanes had circled around with his own bodyguards, and now cut down Phidas in a charge from behind.

Dressing their lines and resting for a while, the thureophoroi then advanced up the hill, breaking into a final sprint as they came under arrow fire. On the square they fought the foot-archers, who could have done far more damage had they been placed on the walls. In hand-to-hand combat they did not stand a chance.

And thus were the people of Pantikapaion, in the province of the Bosporion Tyrranesis, saved by Pontos from the Sauromatae invaders. The town was now an odd mix, with older Hellenic structures intermixed with newer nomad attempts to learn the arts of pastoralism.

Ariobarzanes established a new form of rule in Pantikapaion, allowing the people to retain their old traditions and ties, with a Hellenic client ruler as their local king.

On the way back to Asia Minor, Ariobarzanes sailed around the borders of his new client lands, erecting watchtowers to give warning of any Sauromatae attempts to retake the town. When he reached a narrow inlet, the exiled rebels finally appeared out of nearby woods to offer their assistance - but only after their town had already been retaken. And their army was tiny, just a few levy hoplites led by a single noble.

Disgusted, Ariobarzanes paid the rebels a handsome sum to garrison Pantikapaion, and then sailed for home, swearing never to send Pontic forces across the wine-dark sea again.

[I finally triggered the rebel script, even though my faction leader was offshore in a fleet! The diplomat appears magically, so all you have to do is click on the rebels to bribe them - but they're really not worth it, at a cost of ~6,000 Mnai for an experienced general and two levy hoplites. The general also has an interesting bug in my game, being six months out of sync with the rest of the world. So when every other family member has the attribute "summer", he has the attribute "winter". ]

[Horatius Flaccus]

Great AAR! I really like your style. Keep it up!

[The_Blacksmith]

How... how? what? Rebel script?! WOAW... ive never seen that! Great job FF :D

[FriendlyFire]

Chapter 13: A Battle without Blood

While the kingdom of Pontos slowly grew, the conflict between two of its much larger neighbors powers had reached a turning point in 252 BC. For the Ptolemaioi were now clearly winning the Syrian wars, and had captured the crippled town of Antiocheia (sacked by a Pontic captain in 265 BC) from the Arche Seleukeia. Although it was to change hands four more times, the Seleukids never again held it for more than a year.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Despite this conflict on their borders, the population of Pontos was happy and growing, boosted by a great wave of civil infrastructure and building work. Temples and public bathing places were two of the most popular additions to any town, and Ariobarzanes Kianos had decreed that Zeus-Bronton was to be the pre-eminent god worshipped by the people of Pontos.

Even in his old age, Ariobarzanes remained a warmonger, and at 61 he grew restless once more. To the south lay the lands of the Ptolemaioi. To the north lay Scythian lands across the Pontos Euxinos, which he had sworn never to cross again. To the west lay the Greeks, still warring amongst themselves and best left that way. Therefore Ariobarzanes' eyes now turned to the mountains of the east, long claimed by Pontos as their historical homelands. The rebels in the town of Ani-Kamah had forcibly resisted attempts to incorporate them into the kingdom of the Hayasdan, the historical allies of Pontos who inhabited the mountain passes.

Seeing this weakened rebel town as his next easy target, Ariobarzanes marched out with a small army, including some of the new Pontic thorakitai troops that could now be recruited in the latest garrisons in Amaseia. However, due to the rough terrain and lack of any roads in the mountain passes, this march took almost a year, and by the time he arrived at Ani-Kamah his Hayasdan allies had once again besieged it. They had only a small force at the walls, with a young Hayasdan commander, a member of their royal family of Yervanduni, hurrying to catch up and take command.

Ariobarzanes offered his help in the siege, and the small Hayasdan army gladly accepted, for it had only built a single ram so far. The Pontic army swiftly built two additional rams - and then, just as Arsham Yervanduni arrived, but before he could order an assault of his own, Ariobarzanes ordered an attack. He had outfoxed the young Hayasdan commander, who now had to offer his own army in support of the attack. The Haikh defenders in Ani-Kamah were much-depleted from the constant Hai attacks, although they were all battle-hardened men with a fine commander.

Ariobarzanes drew up his men in front of the town, and then ordered them to hold their ground. They waited while the Hayasdan army, now acting in support, sent in its own rams to breach the walls.

The Hayasdan rams were pushed by local swordsmen similar to Ariobarzanes' new thorakitai, so he watched with keen interest.

The rest of the battle was reconstructed from reports of those shattered souls filtering out of the town. Having established a breach, the sword-armed Hai infantry found themselves opposed by many spearmen and skirmishers. Although the defenders fought bravely they were mostly unarmored, and eventually the superior equipment of the Hai prevailed. They even brought down the enemy general here at the breach.

Tired of the delay, the young Hayasdan commander Arsham Yervanduni had sent his skirmisher cavalry around a side road seeking entrance to the square, but they found death at the hands of more spearmen.

Finally Arsham himself broke through to the square with his heavy cavalry bodyguards, only for the spearmen there to bring down all his companions around him. Alone, exhausted, and bereft, he fled the field of battle, and was found later hiding in his tent, disgraced and humiliated.

Despite the absence of their commander and their own exhaustion, the Hai swordsmen pressed onwards, gradually cutting down all remaining spearmen in a grim battle of attrition.

And thus the town fell to the forces of Pontos, who had contributed nothing and spilled no blood, while all the killing was done by their allies the Hayasdan, who had lost almost half of their army and the good name of a royal prince.

The town itself bore traces of the Hayasdan, since they held regular royal hunts. More importantly for Ariobarzanes, the shared heritage of the townspeople meant that he could immediately levy a range of troops from here, including valuable horse-archers similar to those from across the Pontos Euxinos.

This was perhaps Ariobarzanes' finest victory, showing the powers of trickery over those of strength of arms. However, it is said that the gods looked on the capture of Ani-Kamah with disfavor, for Ariobarzanes did not live to the end of the following year. He died peacefully in Amaseia, although there have always been rumors of assassins sent by the Hayasdan court, angry at the loss of a town they rightfully saw as their own.

And thus Arsames Kianos became the new king. As has previously been seen (see "The Two Brothers"), he was not a war-like leader, but he would have many wars to cope with over his reign.

[The Hai besieged first, but their initial army could only build a single ram, and didn't start the attack that season. I besieged second, quickly built two rams, and started the attack the following season. Since I commenced the attack, I got the victory and the town. And yes, I did this mainly because I wanted to see what would happen - I didn't know if the rule was "first to besiege wins", or "first to attack wins".]

[Titus Marcellus Scato]

If you have any sense of honour and fair play, you'll give Ani-Kamah to Hayasdan. They earned it - you only stole it. I'll say no more.

[Beckitz]

I've been following this one, both here and over at Total War Center, and I just wanted to say I think you've done a great job.

I like the historical narrative style, and the pictures always seem to jive nicely with your text.

Looking forward to more.

[Horatius Flaccus]

If you have any sense of honour and fair play, you'll give Ani-Kamah to Hayasdan. They earned it - you only stole it. I'll say no more.

No, this could actually lead to some nice role playing.

[vollorix]

If you have any sense of honour and fair play, you'll give Ani-Kamah to Hayasdan. They earned it - you only stole it. I'll say no more.

Shouldn´t the players behaviour depend on the qualities of the current King of Pontos to perform a better roleplay? I mean, looking at the new FL Arsames Kianos i could imagine this guy is no one who might be concerned "honorable" ^^

[Titus Marcellus Scato]

No.

The Hayasdan army took the city in battle. Because they wanted it.

Friendlyfire has, as yet, offered no valid roleplaying reason for the victorious Hayasdan army to march OUT of the conquered city, (which their soldiers would be happily looting) and allow the Pontic army to march IN afterwards. That this has happened is only a quirk of the RTW game engine that FriendlyFire has exploited to his advantage.

And the roleplaying reason should be something more imaginative than "The Hayasdan army went out of the city for a victory parade, and the Pontic army sneaked in the rear gate, locked the front gate, and then refused to let the Hayadan soldiers back in!"

[vollorix]

@TMS
You´re awaiting role playing, but are denying the option, a quite good one, imo, to follow the "kings will", according to his character, rather then relying on "players honor"? Strange...

FF said, he´s done it to try out what happens, i do not thing he is so in dire that he couldn´t have solved the situation in any other way.

RP reason could be:
Something like bribing the commander of the Hay army to make sure that Pontic troops would be who´ll secure the town, perhaps? :)
And since the Hay general was "Yervanduni", he should have been "disloyal" in this case to accept the bribery, i´d say.
Just a notice - normaly you can´t bribe allied armies, despite the fact that you can´t really make an allied AI faction lift the siege without interfearing by force ( perhaps "move_char" command, teleporting a Seleucid stack right behind the Hay army might have helped, but i doubt that. And it´s not more realistic than the solution that has been chosen.

I don´t want to say that i´m happy with this solution, but it´s somehow funny, and could in fact been "justified" as said above, imo.

[Titus Marcellus Scato]

@TMS
You´re awaiting role playing, but are denying the option, a quite good one, imo, to follow the "kings will", according to his character, rather then relying on "players honor"? Strange...

FF said, he´s done it to try out what happens, i do not thing he is so in dire that he couldn´t have solved the situation in any other way.

RP reason could be:
Something like bribing the commander of the Hay army to make sure that Pontic troops would be who´ll secure the town, perhaps? :)
And since the Hay general was "Yervanduni", he should have been "disloyal" in this case to accept the bribery, i´d say.

I don´t want to say that i´m happy with this solution, but it´s somehow funny, and could in fact been "justified" as said above, imo.

Bribing the enemy commander would be an acceptable roleplaying explanation as to why Hayasdan has just handed over a newly-conquered province to Pontus for nothing. Pontos has gained a new province without conquest. Provided that FriendlyFire actually sends a diplomat to the Hayasdan army commander and offers a very substantial 'gift' of several thousand mnai.

Another acceptable reason would be Pontus threatening war against Hayasdan if it didn't hand the town over (equivalent to 'Accept or we will attack' diplomacy.) Provided that Friendlyfire sends a diplomat to the Hayasdan commander, and cancels the alliance between Hayasdan and Pontus - since after a threat like that, realistically, Hayasdan would no longer want to be allies with Pontos.

(Actually, to do the above, I'd use Force Diplomacy to first give the town to Hayasdan, then use FD again to force Hayasdan to give it back under a 'Accept or we will attack' offer. This will create a proper diplomatic 'transgression' in the game engine, making Hayasdan very angry toward the player for the rest of the campaign, and will also give the other AI factions warning of Pontic treachery toward its allies, making it harder for Pontus to gain allies in the future.)

This would be an historically accurate reflection of ancient diplomacy - gaining a new province through treachery (especially towards an ally) is actually much worse, diplomatically speaking, than conquering it in open battle. Battle is honourable - treachery is vulgar.

It's a bit like the way Hitler got the rump of Czechoslovakia in March 1939 - he got a province for 'free', without a fight, but he also paid a price - he lost his reputation as an international statesman, so that no-one ever trusted him again (particularly Britain went from 'unsympathetic neutral' to 'hostile potential enemy'.) All actions have consequences!

[FriendlyFire]

I'm definitely not handing Ani-Kamah back, because it's a Pontic homeland region. My battlefield justification is that the Yervanduni commander fled the battlefield (I was hoping he'd die, but he managed to get away as the sole survivor of his bodyguard), and it was left to old Ariobarzanes to rally the Hai troops and encourage them to finish taking the town. My new king will give the Hai a lump sum of 20,000 Mnai - almost all of my remaining treasury - to compensate them, and once I get mines up and running in Ani-Kamah I'll give them tribute equivalent to the mine's output for a generation (25 years, 100 turns).

Also, the Hai break their alliance with me soon afterwards anyway (spoiler alert!). Using FD to resurrect the alliance, then give them the town, then demand it back to set some treachery bit and make them prone to attack me sounds cool, except that they're pitifully weak right now. I don't think it would be much fun to role-play "this tiny kingdom of Hayasdan attacked us so we decided not to kerb-stomp them but instead we'll fight a pointless series of border skirmishes for 50 years until they can build a proper challenging army". Instead I'll pump money into them and hope they get the idea on their own...

[vollorix]

As a side note: Ani-Kamah has "subjugation" marker only, no homeland one for Pontos, iirc. It´s a "homeland" for the Hay, though ;)
That "tribute" sounds more like a good way to keep the Hay off your neck, actually, but the 20k gift is cool.
I somehow always hesitate to fight the Hay while playing Pontos; maybe because i do not like to fight former allies, or it´s because the similarity of the starting conditions playing both factions, kind of sympathy for another underdog, who knows...

[FriendlyFire]

You're right - I was thinking of victory conditions, not homeland regions.

I don't think I even need the tribute to keep the Hay happy, since they always seem to be very peaceful when I play as Pontos. It's more a role-playing/keep-my-audience happy move :)

[FriendlyFire]

Chapter 14: Two Happy Years

Arsames Kianos inherited a thriving kingdom from his elder brother, encompassing most of Asia Minor. To the west, an alliance between Epeiros and the Koinon Hellenon had reduced the Makedonian possessions, and the Antigonid line seemed on the verge of extinction. To the south and east, the Ptolemaioi had pushed further into the heartlands of Arche Seleukeia, although the Seleukids still had a loyal satrap on the island of Kyprus.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

During this time the Pontic royal line had also greatly expanded, with many young men coming of age, and more being added through marriage. Arsames preferred to rule from his capital Amaseia, where he could act as a guide and tutor, and evaluate the capabilities of all who he saw.

Arsames had chosen his nephew, Hystaspis Kianos, to be his royal heir and leader of his field armies. Hystaspis had already been blooded in action against some Galatian rebels, and although not the brightest of men was nonetheless getting an expensive education at the hands of a royal tutor. More importantly, his loyalty and relative lack of initiative meant that he could always be trusted to carry out the wishes of Arsames.

The first two years of Arsames' reign passes peacefully, with aqueducts, river ports, and paved roads being built across the land. The kingdom of Hayasdan was compensated for the capture of Ani-Kamah, with the promise of more silver to follow when its mines were developed. At the same time, the capabilities of the Pontic military were not neglected. The art of building war chariots was resurrected, for although some kingdoms considered them obsolete, their many blades still inspired fear on the battlefield. They were also the best weapon that Pontos could deploy: it had no Hypaspists like the Makedonians, Kataphractoi like the easterners, or even armored Elephants like the Seleukids.

The peace was not to last, for towards the end of 245 BC it was obvious that one war was not enough for the Ptolemaioi. From their newly-captured city of Antiocheia they sent armies trespassing into Pontic lands, occupying the territory between the two great rivers east of Tarsos. For a year Hystaspis faced them from across the river, while sending urgent messages to Amaseia for more reinforcements. War was coming.

[Karel de Stoute]

great, i'm a big fan of this AAR much longer than most