Concerning the great worries about the self defence capabilities of Europeans.

[Vladimir]

Clever post. However remember that the U.S. has an all volunteer Army while many of the other nations mentioned have mandatory military service/conscription. I'll take a volunteer over a conscript any day.

[Furunculus]

agreed, a more useful metric is dollars of defence budget per uniformed serving soldier.

the higher the the figure the more is spent of training and equipment.

[Kagemusha]

Clever post. However remember that the U.S. has an all volunteer Army while many of the other nations mentioned have mandatory military service/conscription. I'll take a volunteer over a conscript any day.

You mean like Persia had paid volunteers and for Greek city states mandatory service was essential part of being citizen?

[Vladimir]

You mean like Persia had paid volunteers and for Greek city states mandatory service was essential part of being citizen?

Sorry. I don't get it.

Well, I think I understand your statement just not how it relates to my comment. All I'm thinking of now are pomegranates. Yum!



Edit: Wait...That makes me sound really gay, doesn't it?

As a follow-up:

[Kagemusha]

Sorry. I don't get it.

Well, I think I understand your statement just not how it relates to my comment. All I'm thinking of now are pomegranates. Yum!



Edit: Wait...That makes me sound really gay, doesn't it?

Well...Um..That is bit out of loop...maybe, but to the point. Maybe this whole volunteer /conscription thingy is bit of a cultural thing? I am by no means expert of US Federal law, but in your legistlation there is that war time draft, is it still there? So basically at war time some of your population can be forced to arms based on some conditions. That happened last time in Vietnam? So basically a menacing selective fast forward mandatory military service, which still does not apply to all male population? Maybe some of the Americans might clear this thing up a bit, as to me this very thing seems to be what is making "conscription" a curse word in American mindset. About the paid volunteer army. Isnt a "paid volunteer" bit of an oxymoron? Basically any career soldier in any country becomes a paid volunteer when he is not anymore part of Mandatory military service.

[Vuk]

Again, how many times do I have to state that the size of a military is not an indication of its population's military readiness, or, indeed, its willingness? What would happen to European armies if Europe was invaded?
Let's put it like this, if you had to recruit people for your military, would you rather be recruiting Americans or Euros? If you had to have an identical number of either Euro or American military personnel guarding you with the same equipment, who would you choose? I think that I know the answer, and THAT is my point.

[Greyblades]

If you had to have an identical number of either Euro or American military personnel guarding you with the same equipment, who would you choose?

If I was feeling facecious I'd say americans, so that my more valuable euro troops are put to better use than guard duty.

[Vuk]

If I was feeling facecious I'd say americans, so that my more valuable euro troops are put to better use than guard duty.

lol, Sorry Greyblades, but I hardly believe that you are being honest...are you? :P

[Kagemusha]

Again, how many times do I have to state that the size of a military is not an indication of its population's military readiness, or, indeed, its willingness? What would happen to European armies if Europe was invaded?
Let's put it like this, if you had to recruit people for your military, would you rather be recruiting Americans or Euros? If you had to have an identical number of either Euro or American military personnel guarding you with the same equipment, who would you choose? I think that I know the answer, and THAT is my point.

So what do you want? Weigh index comparison? average height? Educational standards? Now if you would claim that USA has the best Navy in the world equipment wise, Answer would be easy yes, but no.You claim that one population of same cultural area is somehow inheritently superior to others. Nice word comes to mind ubermenchen. What exactly are you basing that idea, even more so when you have no military training yourself that certain Nation no matter of any factors reigns just supreme, because you say so? You discount history and statistics, also reality. In how many of the reacent wars European troops have been present? How many times they have fared more poor then anyone else, or in matter of fact any better? If you just decide that entire continent full of people have somehow mysteriosly lost their will to defend themselves, you really have to bring even one minor factual shred of evidence to the table.So please do so?

[Vuk]

So what do you want? Weigh index comparison? average height? Educational standards? Now if you would claim that USA has the best Navy in the world equipment wise, Answer would be easy yes, but no.You claim that one population of same cultural area is somehow inheritently superior to others. Nice word comes to mind ubermenchen. What exactly are you basing that idea, even more so when you have no military training yourself that certain Nation no matter of any factors reigns just supreme, because you say so? You discount history and statistics, also reality. In how many of the reacent wars European troops have been present? How many times they have fared more poor then anyone else, or in matter of fact any better? If you just decide that entire continent full of people have somehow mysteriosly lost their will to defend themselves, you really have to bring even one minor factual shred of evidence to the table.So please do so?

I already did talk about several in the other threads. For one, the (admitted) loathing of war and dangerously obsessive desire to avoid it held by so many Western Europeans. Right there you take motive and purpose away. In many ways, you get out of training what you put into it. How motivated are you? How serious are you about being the best? Can you be serious about being the best (and therefore work torward it) if you firmly believe that alliances and trade will make your role (a soldier) completely useless, and therefore your whole military is just a facade or some sort of bad joke?

[Husar]

Let's put it like this, if you had to recruit people for your military, would you rather be recruiting Americans or Euros? If you had to have an identical number of either Euro or American military personnel guarding you with the same equipment, who would you choose? I think that I know the answer, and THAT is my point.

Probably Europeans. Once Russia has joined the EU, definitely Europeans.

[PanzerJaeger]

Probably Europeans. Once Russia has joined the EU, definitely Europeans.

Why?