Concerning the great worries about the self defence capabilities of Europeans.

[Major Robert Dump]

Did you not say the US Army regulars are sub-par? Did you not say you have no faith in the US Army? You even tried to back this up by pointing out the removeal of bayonet training from basic, as if the physical condition initial recruits has anything to do with the overall, trained fighting force!

Here's some info your "friends" in the military didn't give you:
Bayonet training was removed because
A) NO ONE FIGHTS WITH BAYONETS AND THOSE 3 DAYS ARE BETTER SPENT LEARNING OTHER THINGS
B) The pugil stick training used to simulate bayonets not only gets recruits hurt, but also tends to get Drill Sergeants in trouble

Your pastor used to be in the army and did not know how to shoot? How is that even relevant?

As far as soldiers not learning "hand-to-hand," the gay fake karate they trained us on until the late 1990s was ineffective and obsolete and was eventually replaced with Jujitsu-based combatives. Everyone at BCT and AIT and OCS gets basic, watered-down courses on those. Anything past that is completely voluntary because to be level 1 certified and higher you must complete a course during which you stand to suffer permanant, serious injuries. People have died. Making every single soldier down to support personnel attend these classes is a really good way to thin your ranks. The idea of US ARMY modern combatives is not to be a one-man unarmed killing machine, it is to be able to survive long enough for your friends to come help you.

I also find it comical that you use your "friends" at the university as an example of how the military is not physically fit. Maybe that is because they are at the university, and not at a military school or on a deployment. Soldiers gain weight, eat, drink and screw in between assignments. And please do not ever, ever, ever use ROTC cadets as an example of any military institution because they are not soldiers yet and many of them never will be.

I am really sorry that we, as a fighting force, cannot live up to your high expectations. If the military was full of Vuks, I'm sure Iraq and Afghanistan would have been won years ago

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Did you not say the US Army regulars are sub-par? Did you not say you have no faith in the US Army? You even tried to back this up by pointing out the removeal of bayonet training from basic, as if the physical condition initial recruits has anything to do with the overall, trained fighting force!

Here's some info your "friends" in the military didn't give you:
Bayonet training was removed because
A) NO ONE FIGHTS WITH BAYONETS AND THOSE 3 DAYS ARE BETTER SPENT LEARNING OTHER THINGS
B) The pugil stick training used to simulate bayonets not only gets recruits hurt, but also tends to get Drill Sergeants in trouble...

MRD:

Perhaps the military experience being cited in the criticism you refute above was garnered in MAG or CODMW2 where combatants regularly bring knives to gunfights...and win hands down. ;-)

[Vuk]

MRD:

Perhaps the military experience being cited in the criticism you refute above was garnered in MAG or CODMW2 where combatants regularly bring knives to gunfights...and win hands down. ;-)

No, not at all. First of all, the larger the engagement, the more chance of melee combat. In a large war, esp in urban areas, the chance goes up. Why even give our troops bayonets if we do not show them how to use them? They are just as likely to hurt themselves as they are to use them effectively.
Also, as I said in my above post (2 above), the rational behind teaching melee combat is to condition troops to stressful circumstances where split second decisions matter. To get them used to feeling consequences for their actions, taking hits, being aggressive, etc. It is considered by many to be one of the best preps for actually sending soldiers into combat. That is why it is important a lot more than the practical side of melee combat in modern warfare.

[Strike For The South]

I toatly have a buddy in the core who claims to steal his British commarades lunch money removed
Vuk is what is wrong with America, a fat slob sitting on his couch claiming America is teh best and can't be defeated because of some intrinsic awesomeness, when in reality the people who serve in the US military are just that, people. Putting this rediculos onus on them is why Americans supports retarded ventures that get my friends killed because when I see a guy who I once talked to for 4 staight hours because his best girl broke up with him the night before the big game, Vuk sees some caricuture out of a Michael Bay movie

You'd better pay your damn respect and think long and hard before commting to anything because its not your ass or even your creature comforts that are on the line. Its someone elses and chances are he is just like you.

Removed

[Vuk]

*ranting and BS*

And where do you get the idea that I glorify war or think that we should be going overseas doing this and that? Am I not the one that is always arguing that we should keep our nose out of this happening abroad as much as possible (and much more so than we have done)?
Don't pretend you know anything about me, because you don't. The only reason that I did not join the Corps (and that is how it is spelled BTW my educated intellectual individual) is because I was turned down by recruiters because of a pre-existing condition that greatly limits what I can and cannot do. (and which is none of your business)
Also, many of the opinions that I have expressed were either based on things told to me by friends who are in the military, or opinions expressed by friends in the Corps.
You don't know what you are talking about, so mind your business and go do something more your speed...like lifting weights...

[Subotan]

No, not at all. First of all, the larger the engagement, the more chance of melee combat. In a large war, esp in urban areas, the chance goes up. Why even give our troops bayonets if we do not show them how to use them? They are just as likely to hurt themselves as they are to use them effectively.
Also, as I said in my above post (2 above), the rational behind teaching melee combat is to condition troops to stressful circumstances where split second decisions matter. To get them used to feeling consequences for their actions, taking hits, being aggressive, etc. It is considered by many to be one of the best preps for actually sending soldiers into combat. That is why it is important a lot more than the practical side of melee combat in modern warfare.

You sound like a Marshal of France circa. 1913.

I toatly have a buddy in the core who claims to steal his British commarades lunch money and then rape them in the lunch line

Vuk is what is wrong with America, a fat slob sitting on his couch claiming America is teh best and can't be defeated because of some intrinsic awesomeness, when in reality the people who serve in the US military are just that, people. Putting this rediculos onus on them is why Americans supports retarded ventures that get my friends killed because when I see a guy who I once talked to for 4 staight hours because his best girl broke up with him the night before the big game, Vuk sees some caricuture out of a Michael Bay movie

You'd better pay your damn respect and think long and hard before commting to anything because its not your ass or even your creature comforts that are on the line. Its someone elses and chances are he is just like you.

You mouth breathing philistine

[Reenk Roink]

This picture serves a sarcastic purpose better, imo, but the post of stfs had to be said.

[PanzerJaeger]

I don't understand the demands to lock the thread. Why? So we can have more time to read about Ayn Rand's Social Security scandle or claw our way through yet another tedious Israel/Palestine thread?

This and its sister have been two of the most entertaining threads in a while and what used to make the Backroom so fun - people getting passionate about a subject. It is (relatively) new and interesting. If your innocent eyes cannot stand it, don't click through. Vuk will decide when he's had enough and the thread will die soon enough after.

all true, but our part in southern iraq was only half the battle fought, if you want to hear about the other half then read Task Force Black, and see what Patraues and Co had to say about British Forces.

southern iraq was a failure but not by the military, rather it was a political lack of spine to let the military do the necessary to pacify Southern Iraq. blair wanted a quiet life and pissed away SI to get it.

Just to be clear, I was not slagging of the British Military. They are, of course, one of the best in the world.

I was only trying to highlight that the two sides have always been highly critical of each other in the best of times, and especially when things don't go according to plan. I guess you could say that about any married couple, though.

[a completely inoffensive name]

I toatly have a buddy in the core who claims to steal his British commarades lunch money and then rape them in the lunch line

Vuk is what is wrong with America, a fat slob sitting on his couch claiming America is teh best and can't be defeated because of some intrinsic awesomeness, when in reality the people who serve in the US military are just that, people. Putting this rediculos onus on them is why Americans supports retarded ventures that get my friends killed because when I see a guy who I once talked to for 4 staight hours because his best girl broke up with him the night before the big game, Vuk sees some caricuture out of a Michael Bay movie

You'd better pay your damn respect and think long and hard before commting to anything because its not your ass or even your creature comforts that are on the line. Its someone elses and chances are he is just like you.

You mouth breathing philistine

The cancer that is killing /USA/

[Vuk]

The cancer that is killing /USA/

lol, oh yes, Vuk the cancer...says the self-proclaimed "Professional Internet Troll"...

[a completely inoffensive name]

lol, oh yes, Vuk the cancer...says the self-proclaimed "Professional Internet Troll"...

Trolls don't cause cancer, they provoke the cancer for lulz. This is internet 101. I'm sorry, you were saying something about how some guys you know told you that they think soliders from New York and Europe are pussies?

I know some guys who knew a guy who wanted to join the marines who apparently said that the Air Force might as well be 16 middle aged men taking baby boomers on tourist flights over the grand canyon because they were so undisciplined.

Why is our military neglecting to teach our soldiers the practical art of swordsmanship on the battle field? You can't cut off a terrorists head with a tactical knife, you need an Irish Claymore. God, I swear, no wonder our military is so ineffective.

EDIT: AND WHY ARE ALL THE CLAYMORES BEING MADE IN IRELAND!? WHERE ARE THE GOOD OLE AMERICAN MADE CLAYMORES THE GREATEST GENERATION USED TO GUT NAZIS!?!

[Vuk]

Did you not say the US Army regulars are sub-par? Did you not say you have no faith in the US Army? You even tried to back this up by pointing out the removeal of bayonet training from basic, as if the physical condition initial recruits has anything to do with the overall, trained fighting force!

Here's some info your "friends" in the military didn't give you:
Bayonet training was removed because
A) NO ONE FIGHTS WITH BAYONETS AND THOSE 3 DAYS ARE BETTER SPENT LEARNING OTHER THINGS
B) The pugil stick training used to simulate bayonets not only gets recruits hurt, but also tends to get Drill Sergeants in trouble

Your pastor used to be in the army and did not know how to shoot? How is that even relevant?

As far as soldiers not learning "hand-to-hand," the gay fake karate they trained us on until the late 1990s was ineffective and obsolete and was eventually replaced with Jujitsu-based combatives. Everyone at BCT and AIT and OCS gets basic, watered-down courses on those. Anything past that is completely voluntary because to be level 1 certified and higher you must complete a course during which you stand to suffer permanant, serious injuries. People have died. Making every single soldier down to support personnel attend these classes is a really good way to thin your ranks. The idea of US ARMY modern combatives is not to be a one-man unarmed killing machine, it is to be able to survive long enough for your friends to come help you.

I also find it comical that you use your "friends" at the university as an example of how the military is not physically fit. Maybe that is because they are at the university, and not at a military school or on a deployment. Soldiers gain weight, eat, drink and screw in between assignments. And please do not ever, ever, ever use ROTC cadets as an example of any military institution because they are not soldiers yet and many of them never will be.

I am really sorry that we, as a fighting force, cannot live up to your high expectations. If the military was full of Vuks, I'm sure Iraq and Afghanistan would have been won years ago

The Jujitsu based junk that the Army is taught in basic courses is total BS. They might as well not teach them anything rather than teach them that. You seem to not think it is important, nor that it is possible without killing half your soldiers. Funny, the Marines have a real fighting system (not a bunch of BJJ BS) that ALL Marines must be certified in the first level (tan belt) of their martial art.
You know, I am not saying that I would be a better soldier (in the state I am) than the average Army soldier, but if I was to join the military I would sure as heck hope that I was given the best training possible to survive, and that the people watching my back were as well. ie, if I joined the military, I would much rather join the Marines than the Army.
I am sorry if you find that offensive or pretentious, I do not mean it that way. It is meant as simple an objective statement of fact.