View Poll Results: Is this a game changer?

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  • Yes

    2 8.70%
  • No

    15 65.22%
  • I don't know

    0 0%
  • I am a Eurowiener!

    6 26.09%
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Thread: Europeans: Is this a game changer?

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  1. #1
    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: Europeans: Is this a game changer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vuk View Post
    This is an issue that I disagreed with American policy strongly on. The US should have made a great show of force, courted the Chinese and threatened the Eurowieners into joining them. They should have made it clear to Russia that if they did not leave the region, they would be attacked...and they should have kept their word.

    This however has nothing to do with my point about Europe.
    To even waste on American life on some petty level sphere of influence struggle is tantamount to stupidty

    None of this even matters, Russia is important becuase it has allot of nukes and will remain so. Some piddily spending which probably won't happen is inconsequntial

    haha I missed the ottoman empire analogy. I only find solace in the fact that the gene pool isn't being weakend

    Praise Yaweh
    Last edited by Strike For The South; 03-02-2011 at 22:02.
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

  2. #2
    In the shadows... Member Vuk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Europeans: Is this a game changer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    To even waste on American life on some petty level sphere of influence struggle is tantamount to stupidty

    None of this even matters, Russia is important becuase it has allot of nukes and will remain so. Some piddily spending which probably won't happen is inconsequntial
    Attacking a US ally is an afront to the US. This 'petty sphere of influence' happens to be full of innocent lives, and America had made it its policy to stand behind them. Should we be in the habit of breaking our word?
    Allowing a potential threat to exist longer does not save lives, but only serves to make the maximum possible number of lives lost greater at some point in time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV View Post
    In a racial conflict I'd have no problem popping off some negroes.

  3. #3
    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: Europeans: Is this a game changer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vuk View Post
    Attacking a US ally is an afront to the US. This 'petty sphere of influence' happens to be full of innocent lives, and America had made it its policy to stand behind them. Should we be in the habit of breaking our word?
    Well we shouldn't be so willy nilly with our word in the first place

    But in the case of Georgia, yes, we should. I do not care one second for a group of strongmen who made some US coin after the cold war simply becuase they share a border with the worlds angeriest alcoholics
    Allowing a potential threat to exist longer does not save lives, but only serves to make the maximum possible number of lives lost greater at some point in time.
    This would of course mean that the 650Billion is a threat which its not

    WOULD YOU LIKE TO SPIN THE WHEEL AGAIN
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

  4. #4
    In the shadows... Member Vuk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Europeans: Is this a game changer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    Well we shouldn't be so willy nilly with our word in the first place

    But in the case of Georgia, yes, we should. I do not care one second for a group of strongmen who made some US coin after the cold war simply becuase they share a border with the worlds angeriest alcoholics


    This would of course mean that the 650Billion is a threat which its not

    WOULD YOU LIKE TO SPIN THE WHEEL AGAIN
    So would you be willing to apply your 'hands off' policy to the 1990's situation in the Balkans? Do you think that we did the wrong thing?

    Hammer, anvil, forge and fire, chase away The Hoofed Liar. Roof and doorway, block and beam, chase The Trickster from our dreams.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV View Post
    In a racial conflict I'd have no problem popping off some negroes.

  5. #5
    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: Europeans: Is this a game changer?

    Those aren't even bloody letters

    And yes I would have sex with her. I would have sex with allot of women though, doesn't mean I’m willing to get involved in the comic affairs of their useless pieces of territory
    Last edited by Strike For The South; 03-02-2011 at 22:11.
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

  6. #6
    In the shadows... Member Vuk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Europeans: Is this a game changer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    Those aren't even bloody letters

    And yes I would have sex with her. I would have sex with allot of women though, doesn't mean I’m willing to get involved in the comic affairs of their useless pieces of territory
    lol, she is Ukranian, not Georgian. :P
    Hammer, anvil, forge and fire, chase away The Hoofed Liar. Roof and doorway, block and beam, chase The Trickster from our dreams.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV View Post
    In a racial conflict I'd have no problem popping off some negroes.

  7. #7
    Member Member Boohugh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Europeans: Is this a game changer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vuk View Post
    This 'petty sphere of influence' happens to be full of innocent lives, and America had made it its policy to stand behind them.
    The world is full of innocent lives that America supposedly stands behind but very little is done about it. Georgia isn't the exception, it's the rule and when the US (or NATO or the EU) does intervene it is invariably because they have (or believe they have) something to gain - they don't do it for humanitarian reasons.

    Should we be in the habit of breaking our word?
    I'd argue the US has been in the habit of breaking its word for quite some time.

    As for the original topic, no this isn't a gamechanger. I don't agree with some others statements about the poor quality of Russian forces, you are wildely underestimating them, but this is nothing new to NATO and it has been taken into account when making decisions regarding European armament.

  8. #8
    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: Europeans: Is this a game changer?

    EXACTLY we've been doing this for years

    In fact invading for humanitarian reasons is a break in US doctrine supported by all political parties
    Therefore Vuk is Hitler
    Last edited by Banquo's Ghost; 03-03-2011 at 08:50. Reason: Smiley Doctrine
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

  9. #9
    In the shadows... Member Vuk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Europeans: Is this a game changer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    EXACTLY we've been doing this for years

    In fact invading for humanitarian reasons is a break in US doctrine supported by all political parties
    Therefore Vuk is Hitler
    Keeping an ally strong against a hostile power, protecting gas lines, etc. does not qualify as in our best interests?
    If we did what was in our best interests, we would have invaded China and Russia directly after WWII, put the Chinese Emporer back into power, and freed the Russians from a bloody and horrible dictator. THAT would have been in our best interests, but we did not do it.
    Hammer, anvil, forge and fire, chase away The Hoofed Liar. Roof and doorway, block and beam, chase The Trickster from our dreams.
    Vigilance is our shield, that protects us from our squalid past. Knowledge is our weapon, with which we carve a path to an enlightened future.

    Everything you need to know about Kadagar_AV:
    Quote Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV View Post
    In a racial conflict I'd have no problem popping off some negroes.

  10. #10
    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: Europeans: Is this a game changer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vuk View Post
    Keeping an ally strong against a hostile power, protecting gas lines, etc. does not qualify as in our best interests?
    If we did what was in our best interests, we would have invaded China and Russia directly after WWII, put the Chinese Emporer back into power, and freed the Russians from a bloody and horrible dictator. THAT would have been in our best interests, but we did not do it.
    Maybe becuase that would've been logistically impossible and the American people wouldn't have stood for it

    Armies and nations are not simply the inexhsuastable monoliths video games portray them as

    I would have never had to explain this two years ago
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

  11. #11
    In the shadows... Member Vuk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Europeans: Is this a game changer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    Maybe becuase that would've been logistically impossible and the American people wouldn't have stood for it

    Armies and nations are not simply the inexhsuastable monoliths video games portray them as

    I would have never had to explain this two years ago
    Actually, it is General Douglas McArthur suggested, and he enjoyed a great deal of popularity amongst the American people. (so much in fact that if he had run for President, he almost definately would have won)
    You are right, nations are not inexhaustable, which is exactly why it would be possible. The US had been drained far less than any country in the war. Russia and China esp had been bled almost dry. It would not have taken a lot to make either of them fall, and we would have been able to rely on the support of friendly nationals whose country we would have been freeing. (esp in the case of China, but also very much in the case of Russia)
    Also, when we were done, Europe would have been bled even whiter than it ended up being, Russia would take a century to recover. China would be weak, but not having a communist government, it would soon become a strong ally. The two world super-powers would have been the US and China, both would be on the same side for at least a few decades, and the US would be the strongest by far.
    Hammer, anvil, forge and fire, chase away The Hoofed Liar. Roof and doorway, block and beam, chase The Trickster from our dreams.
    Vigilance is our shield, that protects us from our squalid past. Knowledge is our weapon, with which we carve a path to an enlightened future.

    Everything you need to know about Kadagar_AV:
    Quote Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV View Post
    In a racial conflict I'd have no problem popping off some negroes.

  12. #12
    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Europeans: Is this a game changer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vuk View Post
    Keeping an ally strong against a hostile power, protecting gas lines, etc. does not qualify as in our best interests?
    If we did what was in our best interests, we would have invaded China and Russia directly after WWII, put the Chinese Emporer back into power, and freed the Russians from a bloody and horrible dictator. THAT would have been in our best interests, but we did not do it.
    Probably because both would've been impossible...

    Invading Russia simply cannot be done.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

  13. #13
    In the shadows... Member Vuk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Europeans: Is this a game changer?

    Quote Originally Posted by HoreTore View Post
    Probably because both would've been impossible...

    Invading Russia simply cannot be done.
    A: You don't need to invade and conquer Russia to force it to negotiate. Defeating its armed forces and bombing/nuking the heck out of it (or simply the threat of that) would go a long way.
    B: Yes actually, it could be done.
    Hammer, anvil, forge and fire, chase away The Hoofed Liar. Roof and doorway, block and beam, chase The Trickster from our dreams.
    Vigilance is our shield, that protects us from our squalid past. Knowledge is our weapon, with which we carve a path to an enlightened future.

    Everything you need to know about Kadagar_AV:
    Quote Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV View Post
    In a racial conflict I'd have no problem popping off some negroes.

  14. #14
    Darkside Medic Senior Member rory_20_uk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Europeans: Is this a game changer?

    I'm with HoreTore. Post WW2 the USSR had the most fearsome army on the planet. Allied tanks were a joke, but had better planes and Navy. The reason the two sides didn't go for each other was that neither side saw a way of winning without losses that were so vast as to make any victory pointless.

    The Germans would have taken the Russians with more preparation - especially if the Italians hadn't screwed up in the Balkans. Attack as the Spring progresses. There was basically the one chance - but with their nukes no chance.

    An enemy that wishes to die for their country is the best sort to face - you both have the same aim in mind.
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