how self-evident is democracy?

**a completely inoffensive name** · 03-12-2011, 02:26

Originally Posted by Greyblades

Artificial means not of nature and most people consider man-made things not of nature, seeing as a goverment is man made I think it's a safe bet governments are artificial.

If you read my argument, I don't necessarily think that government is only present in mankind, ours is just more advanced, more complex.

**The Stranger** · 03-12-2011, 12:27

ideally, shouldnt the master selcet his own heir? he knows the job the best and should know who is best suited for the job. i know that inreality this will lead to corruption and friends first kinda things, but everything has flaws in reality.

**Viking** · 03-12-2011, 12:40

He might recognise people that would rule somewhat like he did; but whether he chooses the one who is "best" suited for the job, means we first need to establish what is the "best" society or rule.

It is also clear that, even when establishing the fact that the present ruler and his ways are "decent", there may still be even better ways to rule.

**The Stranger** · 03-13-2011, 00:58

Originally Posted by Viking

He might recognise people that would rule somewhat like he did; but whether he chooses the one who is "best" suited for the job, means we first need to establish what is the "best" society or rule.

It is also clear that, even when establishing the fact that the present ruler and his ways are "decent", there may still be even better ways to rule.

but the same thing can be said about democracy. and while we keep electing people to represent people no real thought is given by the people of how we can improve the "system"

**Viking** · 03-15-2011, 12:52

Well, I have not actually uttered anything in defence of democracy; only countering your point.

**rory_20_uk** · 03-15-2011, 12:55

Originally Posted by The Stranger

but the same thing can be said about democracy. and while we keep electing people to represent people no real thought is given by the people of how we can improve the "system"

Have you see Yes Prime Minister "Power to the People"?

The system is designed to serve itself. Protests might get some minor changes at the edges, but nothing to alter what it does.

**Beskar** · 03-16-2011, 05:36

Originally Posted by rory_20_uk

Have you see Yes Prime Minister "Power to the People"?

The system is designed to serve itself. Protests might get some minor changes at the edges, but nothing to alter what it does.

I got the series.

This is also one of my favourites, I even had to reference to it in one of my essays because it is straight to the point.

**Beskar** · 03-16-2011, 06:19

Slightly off-topic, I was reading this:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11609887

The only party not supporting any form of reform is the Conservatives and "New Labour"-wing of the Labour party (both right-wing).

The only party wanting a less democratic version of the vote is the BNP (Party-list). (extreme right)

Everyone else says "AV is okay.. but STV is the best and most democratic", so they are pro-change, hoping for a slipperly slope where we become more democratic.

I support STV, but i am going to vote "yes" on the referendum as AV is clearly the better alternative to FPTP.