What's going on in London?

[al Roumi]

There was me thinking they were all for spending their way out of the crash, although you could of course argue that such an approach, followed by notably second rate economies like the US, is deeply wrong.

Don't get me started on Brown or the boom/bust hubris, but then neither have the Tories (Norman Lamont?) been exempt from such catastrophes...

Stop peddling the cluedo-like nonsense that it was labour "wot done it" in the library with a (public spending) hammer.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

There was me thinking they were all for spending their way out of the crash, although you could of course argue that such an approach, followed by notably second rate economies like the US, is deeply wrong.

Labour are, it would not be a terrible idea if we had spare money - we don't.

Don't get me started on Brown or the boom/bust hubris, but then neither have the Tories (Norman Lamont?) been exempt from such catastrophes...

They also recovered from it in time for Labour to take office. Also, 1992 was in large part a targeted "bet" by traders to force London to abandon the ERM (is that the thing, the one from Europe?)

Stop peddling the cluedo-like nonsense that it was labour "wot done it" in the library with a (public spending) hammer.

Stop peddling the "Tories are out to get you" nonsese first, it's silier (this goes to all posters.)

[Brenus]

“because Conservatives are evil and Liberals are good, yes?” They are the SAME. Don’t you see it?

”Replace with "foriegn-thieves" and not the intellectual bankruptcy.” What Foreign Thieves? The one who bought your Football Clubs, or your Super Markets?

”Conservatives are not evil, Brenus, they are ordinary people, not a mixture of Darth Vader and Sauron.”
I speak of politic not about people. Conservatives are probably nice in private life, educated and polite. I worked with some of them, and was always welcome in their home… But that is not the point. Their politic is to save their money and even to get more if possible. They have a genuine vision of society completed twisted by their Social Class. I had one of them explaining me that only the person trained (meaning them, of course) for power should have access to power as the illiterates have no clues about problems… Or the important persons should have priority for dentist or medical treatment, as their time is more valuable than the one of the workers…

And can I remind you that Dark Vador at the start thinks he can use the Force for the better good in killing the badies before it goes wrong. Saruman thinks he can fight the dark side from inside and with it own weapons, without seeing he will loose the reasons to fight the Dark Side.
I’ll give you Sauron is lost for Humanity…

Thanks to the blog from Flore Vasseur in the French weekly Mariane 2, I am able to understand why they are none millionaire supporting Tories
They are parts of a branch of the human species known as the Homo-Valetus (from the French passed in English Valet) or Homo-Larbinus (from the French Larbin).
He imagines he shares the values of the class who exploits him because he lives in the same environment. He is sure he is in the right side of the barricade. He is for taxes exemption even if he will never benefit of it, as he is not rich enough. Like a slave protecting his master with his body against the attacks of his class, the Homo-Valetus identifies himself with his master in order to reach a acceptable mental balance that will allowed him to live in accepting his subordination.
In a perfectly accepted mental defence, the Homo-Valetus become even more certain and he suffers from a pathologic behaviour that leads him to systematically defend the wealthiest classes against the class he comes from. The Homo-Larbinus has no political conscience. He works with the ones who exploit him to bring on him their kindness and, hopefully, rewards.

For the French speaking, youtube “Le syndome du Larbin”, by Juliendusud2, funny…

[rory_20_uk]

The reality is that prisoners have complained when the que for the dentist increased to 6 weeks. I know, it is terribly unfair that convicted criminals should have to wait for treatment.

I do agree that for power to be solely concentrated in those who feel it is their destiny to be leaders is bad - and the only thing worse is to give anything resembling power to those like Prescott who exist only to grab as much as they can at the expense of everything else.

Most wealthy have private health insurance so there is no real problem with them getting treated first. They pay for the NHS and then choose not to use it. My old consultant said that our job as doctors was to advocate those who no one else would be an advocate for. So, others pay and others have to then favour them in hospitel at the expense of others as well.

And the reality is that if someone works for £80k a year and can not work, their earnings and indeed the taxes accrued will be lower. So there is less money for everyone. Same goes for fixing a plumber's hands as it is better for all if s/he was working rather than wating for treatment. I am sure we could spend all money on drug and alcohol rehab facilities but the return on investment would be appalling; replacing every elderly person's hip as a priority would mean that there would be a lot less money for others as an individual's quality of life can not be taxed.

[Subotan]

I wonder if the fact that I'm writing articles for my university's Labour Club journal (Look Left) and busy climbing the hierarchy increases or reduces my authority to comment in this thread.

[rory_20_uk]

I wonder if the fact that I'm writing articles for my university's Labour Club journal (Look Left) and busy climbing the hierarchy increases or reduces my authority to comment in this thread.

Concentrate on the phrases "lessons learned", "moving foward", "listening to the voters" and of course "investing in our future". For the love of god don't get bogged down in detail or finances. Concentrate on climbing the greasy pole of shut in election lists and try to get over the massive setback you'll have if you've not done PPE at Oxford - parties of the people don't need to be from the people.

[Subotan]

Concentrate on the phrases "lessons learned", "moving foward", "listening to the voters" and of course "investing in our future". For the love of god don't get bogged down in detail or finances

Mhm, nothing like a detailed analysis of stats to produce a dreary article! I'm going to be writing it on the monarchy actually, and specifically why Labour needs it.

Concentrate on climbing the greasy pole of shut in election lists and try to get over the massive setback you'll have if you've not done PPE at Oxford - parties of the people don't need to be from the people

Aha, I'm way ahead of you - that's what I'm currently reading That said, I'm far too insecurely Northern to forget my roots, so hopefully I won't turn out like the run of the mill slimy PPE tosser that exists in the public imagination (And not without good reason, I might add)

[al Roumi]

my authority to comment in this thread.

I wasn't aware that people were at all obliged to know what they are talking about before posting here, there or anywhere on the internets.

[Furunculus]

john redwood has joined the fray on tax rates:

http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/201...cut-the-rates/

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

”Conservatives are not evil, Brenus, they are ordinary people, not a mixture of Darth Vader and Sauron.”
I speak of politic not about people. Conservatives are probably nice in private life, educated and polite. I worked with some of them, and was always welcome in their home… But that is not the point. Their politic is to save their money and even to get more if possible. They have a genuine vision of society completed twisted by their Social Class. I had one of them explaining me that only the person trained (meaning them, of course) for power should have access to power as the illiterates have no clues about problems… Or the important persons should have priority for dentist or medical treatment, as their time is more valuable than the one of the workers…

That's a pretty big generalisation. Even with those types of Conservatives (I am more than happy to admit they exist) you have completely missed the point. The Conservative elitist is a Patrician, not a Capitalist, he gains power so that he might better serve his country - the connection with money is completely false, the sort of person you are talking about has his wealth in land and he has tenants to protect.

What you are doing is conflating Thatcherism and Toryism, they are not the same thing. Thatcher was a complete aberation in terms of Conservativism, she completely rejected the concept of shared civic responsibility in the community!

[gaelic cowboy]

What you are doing is conflating Thatcherism and Toryism, they are not the same thing. Thatcher was a complete aberation in terms of Conservativism, she completely rejected the concept of shared civic responsibility in the community!

While your right about the differ between Thatcherism and Toryism I would say that any return to Toryism is a dead end.

The main economic pre-occupation of a Tory would be to maintain value of various assets, in order to do this interest rates must and would have to be high to ensure these valuations, that is not going to be done anytime soon.

[Furunculus]

Stop peddling the "Tories are out to get you" nonsese first, it's silier (this goes to all posters.)

agreed. it was, quite simply, labour who spent the economy into a corner from which we could not escape when 'stuff' happened.

[al Roumi]

I only resent all the labour bashing when it's so apparently blind to the failings of other parties, particularly the Tories. All your mud slinging requires is an armoury of elephantine memories and then it'll be like the Somme.

agreed. it was, quite simply, labour who spent the economy into a corner from which we could not escape when 'stuff' happened.

And this is spin, you know it but it suits you because you like the ideology. It's the Tory facade to cover for cuts which need not be as harsh as they are.

[Furunculus]

i prefer to think of it as reality, whatever.