Christianity - Lottery ticket to Heaven?

**HoreTore** · 04-04-2011, 21:07

Honestly, Viking, you just disappointed me. I thought you knew this. But, since you don't, I'll explain:

First off, do you remember Labour's flirt with KRF last year? A lot of people thought that alliance was far-fetched and surprising, and showed that labour was desperate to find new partners. In reality, however, it was not. The christians and the social democrats in Norway go way back. I assume you know of Arild Edvartsen, norway's missionary king? He was just one of many important christian leaders with labour membership.

When the labour movement started off in the late 19th century, they allied with the grasroot christian movement(lekmannsbevegelsen). They did this for several reasons, the primary one was of course that they both viewed themselves as in opposition to the establishment. Another reason was their fight against the absolute poverty and the social disaster area Norway was at that time. Amalie Skram paints rather shocking images of how life was on the outside back then in all of her novels(If you haven't read anything of her, I heartily recommend Hellemyrsfolket). Alcoholism was seen as one of the key factors that ruined peoples lives(and it is in Skram's work too, along with power abuses), and both lead people to damnation(christians) and tightened the upper classes grip on the status quo(workers).

This alliance between the workers movement and the evangelicals is what has shaped our nations alcohol policy, and it is still in effect today. Even if the associated political parties are in different blocks at the present time, the bond is still strong in the organizations themselves.

Not that I have the slightest problem with all this.

**HoreTore** · 04-04-2011, 21:36

It should also be noted that I was speaking in more international terms. Let's face the facts Viking, nobody else gives a [insert naughty word for manure here] about what happens in our little neck of the woods

Don't be fooled by those speeches from Mother Gro, she was on meth the entire time.

**Louis VI the Fat** · 04-04-2011, 21:55

Originally Posted by HoreTore

Let's face the facts Viking, nobody else gives a [insert naughty word for manure here] about what happens in our little neck of the woods

Oh poppycock, Hore. We are interested in your place! Just because Norway is small does not mean we all don't know all about your LEGO and Carlsberg and Little Mermaid.

**HoreTore** · 04-04-2011, 22:05

Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat

Oh poppycock, Hore. We are interested in your place! Just because Norway is small does not mean we all don't know all about your LEGO and Carlsberg and Little Mermaid.

You shouldn't make fun of your future feudal overlords.

You know the future; Europe is covered in debt, while we, through our oil fund, are busy buying up everything... Think ahead, Louis, and start pleasing your Norman overlods now. You never know, we might throw you some leftovers when the time comes

**Viking** · 04-05-2011, 19:14

Originally Posted by HoreTore

Honestly, Viking, you just disappointed me. I thought you knew this. But, since you don't, I'll explain:

First off, do you remember Labour's flirt with KRF last year? A lot of people thought that alliance was far-fetched and surprising, and showed that labour was desperate to find new partners. In reality, however, it was not. The christians and the social democrats in Norway go way back. I assume you know of Arild Edvartsen, norway's missionary king? He was just one of many important christian leaders with labour membership.

When the labour movement started off in the late 19th century, they allied with the grasroot christian movement(lekmannsbevegelsen). They did this for several reasons, the primary one was of course that they both viewed themselves as in opposition to the establishment. Another reason was their fight against the absolute poverty and the social disaster area Norway was at that time. Amalie Skram paints rather shocking images of how life was on the outside back then in all of her novels(If you haven't read anything of her, I heartily recommend Hellemyrsfolket). Alcoholism was seen as one of the key factors that ruined peoples lives(and it is in Skram's work too, along with power abuses), and both lead people to damnation(christians) and tightened the upper classes grip on the status quo(workers).

This alliance between the workers movement and the evangelicals is what has shaped our nations alcohol policy, and it is still in effect today. Even if the associated political parties are in different blocks at the present time, the bond is still strong in the organizations themselves.

Not that I have the slightest problem with all this.

I knew the abstinence bit, thus I was surprised to read your previous post and felt the need to reply.

**HoreTore** · 04-05-2011, 20:18

Originally Posted by Viking

I knew the abstinence bit, thus I was surprised to read your previous post and felt the need to reply.

The workers movement is behind a lot, if not almost everything, of what makes Norway a pleasant country to live in.

But to take the fight against alcohol from the christians is unfair. They have simply done more than the workers movement in that area.

**Centurion1** · 04-05-2011, 22:30

frag predestination is in the minority of christian sects even protestant ones.

**Hax** · 04-05-2011, 22:33

Go and tell that to all the freaking hippies who bring up how buddhism is awesome everytime they get drunk.

Believe me, I'm very much familiar with the Shambhala Buddhists who have a very, let's say, "liberal" interpretation of the Five Precepts. They suggest that the Precepts are somehow "optional" and what makes you a Buddhist is the taking of Refuge. Still, I'm very much in disagreeance with anyone claiming to be Buddhist while getting drunk. I personally don't want to have anything to do with them.