The Desire To Protect "Culture"

[Subotan]

People will still be listening to Floyd in 2211.

It gives me hope for the future.

"...I'll see you on the dark side of the mooooon."

Also this. As well as the Beatles, Led Zep etc.

[Skullheadhq]

You're just a Hyper-Hipster, nothing more.

Didn't knew what it meant, so I checked Wikipedia:

Hipster is a slang term that first appeared in the 1940s, and was revived in the 2000s and 2010s to describe types of young, recently settled urban middle class adults and older teenagers with interests in indie rock, independent film, magazines such as Vice and Clash, and websites like Pitchfork Media.[1] In earlier contexts (2000s), hipsters were also referred to as scenesters

"Hipster" has been used in sometimes contradictory ways, making it difficult to precisely define "hipster culture" because it is a "mutating, trans-Atlantic melting pot of styles, tastes and behavior[s]."[1] One commentator argues that "hipsterism fetishizes the authentic" elements of all of the "fringe movements of the postwar era—beat, hippie, punk, even grunge," and draws on the "cultural stores of every unmelted ethnicity", and "regurgitates it with a winking inauthenticity."[3] Others, like Arsel and Thompson, argue that hipster is a cultural mythology, crystallization of a mass mediated stereotype generated to understand, categorize and marketize the indie consumer culture rather than an objectified group of people

Well, I'm not even close, I don't like any of the things above, try another name.

[HoreTore]

The artists of the past that we remember as "the greats" had no more deoth than Madonna or Jackson. Their music, plays, books, etc, aimed to please their audience. Which they did, just like MJ has done.

The lyrics of songs has remained almost unchanged since music was invented, it's still mostly about the relations with the other sex. I challenge you to name one opera that isn't about some guy trying to get into some chicks pants.

Heck, what was Shakespeare's plays about? Not much more than Braveheart. It's just regular tales of what some King did, we've made tons of movies like that in juwt in this decade. Also, I challenge you to find an old play that's better than, say, Schindler's List.

One thing has changed though. Due to the dictatorian rule of the past, extremely few artists dared to challenge the establishment. This has changed now, and we can now enjoy challenging art, like punk, for example.

[Tuuvi]

While I agree that there is modern art that is comparable in quality to the classics, I disagree that pop music has as much artistry and quality as classical music.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Well quality isn't something you can measure scientifically measure, and there isn't some objective standard either... if people like it then its all good.

I am very thankful to have the culture we have now, I couldn't take having nothing but classical music to listen to.

[Beirut]

Also this. As well as the Beatles, Led Zep etc.

Sweet.

[Beirut]

Heck, what was Shakespeare's plays about? Not much more than Braveheart.

It's not what they were about so much as how they were expressed. And the expression was divine.

[Rhyfelwyr]

I had to read Romeo and Juliet in school and it was meh.

[Beirut]

I had to read Romeo and Juliet in school and it was meh.

Certainly not every play is for every man. But this does not take away from Shakespeare being the greatest English language writer ever.

[Fragony]

Certainly not every play is for every man. But this does not take away from Shakespeare being the greatest English language writer ever.

Would still prefer a frontal lobotomy over having to read that old crap. And the best English writer is Brett Easton Ellis you silly

[HoreTore]

While I agree that there is modern art that is comparable in quality to the classics, I disagree that pop music has as much artistry and quality as classical music.

Indeed, it's not the same quality. Modern pop music is far betteer, I agree. Mozart had a thousand other composer to beat if he wanted to be considered the best. Lady GaGa has to beat millions to get to the top. In the modern age, we have also figured out that it's OK to cooperate with others to create art. Mozart was alone inh his basement, a modern artist works with a huge team.

And when all is said and done; if you could offer Mozart a modern mega-hit, like Bad or Pokerface, would he take it? Of course he would. He was an artist, and his mission was to make other people happy. Bad and pokerface makes people happy, millions of them in fact, and I'm pretty sure Mozart would've seen the value in that, instead of snobbing it.

It's not what they were about so much as how they were expressed. And the expression was divine.

Bah, there's not much difference in how they're expressed either.

[Subotan]

Well, I'm not even close, I don't like any of the things above, try another name.

One of the key characteristics of hipsters is that they hate "mainstream" culture, and take a bizarre amount of pride in exclusive appreciation of their own sub-culture - you have exactly the same mindset, only with the additional pretensions of someone who only appreciates the works of the dead.

While I agree that there is modern art that is comparable in quality to the classics, I disagree that pop music has as much artistry and quality as classical music.

That's not really a fair comparison - a better one would be to compare pop/rock/metal etc. with folk music, which was the pop of its time.

[Fragony]

Lady Gaga is not the best example, she is eccentric most of all. But Amy Whitehouse is one of the geniuses of our time. There is sooooooooooooo much overrated classic, Moonlight Senata common, completely predictable.

[HoreTore]

Lady Gaga is not the best example, she is eccentric most of all. But Amy Whitehouse is one of the geniuses of our time. There is sooooooooooooo much overrated classic, Moonlight Senata common, completely predictable.

It was just one random example among many.

[Beirut]

Bah, there's not much difference in how they're expressed either.

I sense that your discomfort with your inability to appreciate literary genius is manifesting itself as negativity.

[HoreTore]

I sense that your discomfort with your inability to appreciate literary genius is manifesting itself as negativity.

Nonsense. I simply reject the view that there is an all-time great, and that Shakespeare belongs on a pedestal, far above contemporary artists.

[Tellos Athenaios]

Shakespeare is good at what he does which is first of all to describe. Most of his plays are as much about describing the scenery as they are about actual plot -- with only so much budget for the stage he needs to give his audience the necessary visual cues through their imagination. But his writing is not that earth shattering to me. What I admire in writing is not just the ability to arrange words in a pleasing configuration, but to be able to capture the less definable characteristics of your subject through the way you write. Which is why I think “The naming of cats” by T.S. Elliot is really good:

The Naming of Cats is a difficult matter,
It isn't just one of your holiday games;
You may think at first I'm as mad as a hatter
When I tell you, a cat must have THREE DIFFERENT NAMES.
First of all, there's the name that the family use daily,
Such as Peter, Augustus, Alonzo or James,
Such as Victor or Jonathan, George or Bill Bailey--
All of them sensible everyday names.
There are fancier names if you think they sound sweeter,
Some for the gentlemen, some for the dames:
Such as Plato, Admetus, Electra, Demeter--
But all of them sensible everyday names.
But I tell you, a cat needs a name that's particular,
A name that's peculiar, and more dignified,
Else how can he keep up his tail perpendicular,
Or spread out his whiskers, or cherish his pride?
Of names of this kind, I can give you a quorum,
Such as Munkustrap, Quaxo, or Coricopat,
Such as Bombalurina, or else Jellylorum-
Names that never belong to more than one cat.
But above and beyond there's still one name left over,
And that is the name that you never will guess;
The name that no human research can discover--
But THE CAT HIMSELF KNOWS, and will never confess.
When you notice a cat in profound meditation,
The reason, I tell you, is always the same:
His mind is engaged in a rapt contemplation
Of the thought, of the thought, of the thought of his name:
His ineffable effable
Effanineffable
Deep and inscrutable singular Name.

[Beirut]

Nonsense. I simply reject the view that there is an all-time great, and that Shakespeare belongs on a pedestal, far above contemporary artists.

And what contemporary, may I ask, would you see as his equal?

[Banquo's Ghost]

Shakespeare is good at what he does which is first of all to describe. Most of his plays are as much about describing the scenery as they are about actual plot -- with only so much budget for the stage he needs to give his audience the necessary visual cues through their imagination. But his writing is not that earth shattering to me

Clearly, you have never read the bard.

He is responsible for some of the most iconic and revisited plots of all Western literature. One can level many criticisms at Shakespeare, but description over plot is not one of them.

[Banquo's Ghost]

And what contemporary, may I ask, would you see as his equal?

Christopher Marlowe, John Donne, Sir Philip Sidney, Cervantes, would I think, be on the pedestal alongside.

[HoreTore]

And what contemporary, may I ask, would you see as his equal?

Unless it's political or educational, I rarely read modern books. 95% of the fiction books I read date from 1800 to 1920, so I'm not the best one to answer that question.

But from the period I read? Plenty. Dumas, Tolstoj, Dostojevski, Skram, Hamsun. Need I go on?

[Beskar]

There is such thing as modern 'classical' music with people performing it such as Yiruma: the river flows in you.

As for fiction, a lot of it is written for the television now as Shakespeare wrote for the theatre, and there is a great many number of shows which are exceedingly well written.

[johnhughthom]

Indeed, it's not the same quality. Modern pop music is far betteer, I agree. Mozart had a thousand other composer to beat if he wanted to be considered the best. Lady GaGa has to beat millions to get to the top. In the modern age, we have also figured out that it's OK to cooperate with others to create art. Mozart was alone inh his basement, a modern artist works with a huge team.

And when all is said and done; if you could offer Mozart a modern mega-hit, like Bad or Pokerface, would he take it? Of course he would. He was an artist, and his mission was to make other people happy. Bad and pokerface makes people happy, millions of them in fact, and I'm pretty sure Mozart would've seen the value in that, instead of snobbing it.

So you are saying classical music was written for the happiness of the masses, and not the nobility? The main motivation for classical music and modern pop was more likely making money, it just came from a select group of people back then. Progress means we all subsidise the lives of "artists" now.

[Tellos Athenaios]

Clearly, you have never read the bard.

He is responsible for some of the most iconic and revisited plots of all Western literature. One can level many criticisms at Shakespeare, but description over plot is not one of them.

I have read him, and that (scenery over plot) is not my criticism. I don't find fault in his writing, rather the quality of his writing is in his ability to describe the scenery clearly without overwhelming his plots. Still, to me it doesn't hit those notes which make the reading of it memorable rather than his writing merely famous.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Nonsense. I simply reject the view that there is an all-time great, and that Shakespeare belongs on a pedestal, far above contemporary artists.

Clearly, you understand nothing about literature.

Hamlet's Shakespeare is such a moving read! His 27 page stream-of-soliloquy at the end of Ulysses moves me to tears. And there are other great Irish novellists besides Hamlet! Such as that one already named by Banquo, Bard. And those masters of contemporary surrealism, Brian Cowen and Bertie Ahern (nicknamed 'The Bert'). And Brian O'Driscoll, although he is more famous for his many essays.

[HoreTore]

So you are saying classical music was written for the happiness of the masses, and not the nobility? The main motivation for classical music and modern pop was more likely making money, it just came from a select group of people back then. Progress means we all subsidise the lives of "artists" now.

In what alternative universe is the taste of a bunch of inbred twits(the nobility) better than that of functional humans?

[johnhughthom]

In what alternative universe is the taste of a bunch of inbred twits(the nobility) better than that of functional humans?

Probably the same universe where you don't totally miss my point.

[HoreTore]

Probably the same universe where you don't totally miss my point.

Ah.

I like being in that universe. It's so cozy......

[Beirut]

Christopher Marlowe, John Donne, Sir Philip Sidney, Cervantes, would I think, be on the pedestal alongside.

Apologies. I meant contemporary to HoteTore, not to Shakespeare. My mistake.

[Beirut]

Clearly, you have never read the bard.

He is responsible for some of the most iconic and revisited plots of all Western literature. One can level many criticisms at Shakespeare, but description over plot is not one of them.