Twitter discussion

[Constantius III]

wierd considering that the franks came from holland/belgium and they had many troops trowing axes at the romans to get gaul (when you need to pierce trough heavy armour arrows aren´t all that effective)

Actually, the francisca is most plausibly a weapon of Roman origin.

[Ludens]

Actually, the francisca is most plausibly a weapon of Roman origin.

Interesting. Could you give a source?

[Constantius III]

Interesting. Could you give a source?

Sure. G. Halsall, "Archaeology and the Late Roman Frontier in northern Gaul: the so-called Föderatengräber reconsidered" (collected in Halsall, Cemeteries and Society in Merovingian Gaul (Leiden; Boston, 2010)):

[174] Weapon-burials: A 'Germanic' trait?

So we move onto these weapons, the other key support for the 'Germanic' identification, leading to a grave like Dieue-sur-Meuse 101 being called 'Germanic' on the sole basis of the fact that it has a (Roman) spear in it.⁴⁸ There is nothing of 'Germanic' origin in this grave, or its contemporaries on the site, or in the rituals used. Michel Kazanski has recently argued that the weaponry in these graves is overwhelmingly of Roman origin, and that where external influences can be detected they as often come from the east as from Free Germany.⁴⁹ Even the axe, the most common of all weapons in these graves (and, again, much more common in Gallic than in north German weapon burials), long held as being a clearly 'Germanic' weapon,⁵⁰ is probably late Roman, as numerous written references attest.⁵¹ I would suggest that the axe is a cheap, mass-produced side-arm, perhaps for limitanei.

[...]

⁴⁹ Kazanski, 'L'Équipment et le materiel militaires', pp. 37-54.
⁵⁰ Even in ORz, p. 200.
⁵¹ Axes used by the Roman army: Amm. Marc., Res Gestae 19.6.7, 26.8.10; Vegetius, De Rei Militari 4.46; Notitia Dignitatum Or. 11, Occ. 11 (illustrations of the Magistri Officiorum for east and west); Scriptores Historiae Augustae, Caracalla, 4.i. See also the cavalryman's tomb from Gamzigrad on the Danubian frontier, which depicts the deceased carrying an axe whilst on horseback: P. Southern & K. Dixon, The Late Roman Army (London, 1996), p. 93. I am grateful to Dr. Jon Barlow of the University of Sydney for some of these references, though we will have to differ on their interpretation. Note, too, that no source refers to pre-settlement Franks using axes, not even Ammianus' detailed account of Julian's Frankish wars. Ulrich Dahmlos, in his seminal article, ''Francisca-Bipennis-Securis'. Bemerkungen zu archäologischem Befund und schriftlicher überlieferung.' Germania 55 (1977), pp. 141-65, expressed surprise that no franciscae were known from the Frankish homelands. His surprise was misplaced; the true francisca is clearly, even from archaeological data, a fifth-century north Gallic development.

This is part of a general argument that weapon-burials were not a 'Germanic' trend, inasmuch as the practice is just as uncommon in 'Free' Germany before the fourth century as it is in Gaul, and significantly more uncommon after that. He also argues (in another book, Barbarian Migrations and the Roman West) that the 'Frankish' construct probably stems from the Roman army on the Loire River in the late fifth century, and that that Loire army basically metamorphosed into the Salians of Childeric and Clovis, regardless of prior 'ethnicity' among the soldiers in the army (which certainly contained 'Frankish' and 'Roman' soldiers). Halsall's a bit of a revisionist (he and Kulikowski get up to hijinks together) but he's no Goffart and he's definitely one of the main authorities on fifth-century north Gallic archaeology.

[stratigos vasilios]

3 tweets!

Finished model for a lusitanian elite cav unit. Padded armour, soliferrum, falcatas, caetras and montefortino/iberian helmets. - JMRC

Finished a slinger unit for the Sweboz and Lugii faction, a peak at them with the unit cards: http://bit.ly/joW50z http://bit.ly/m5YXzH ~Tux

and

Made some standard models for a secret faction... ~Tux

Spoilt.

[Ca Putt]

hmmmm that sounds as if:
there is no other Germanic Faction(so no Chatti, Cherusci, or Cimbri And it is less likely that there is going to be a belgae faction) not that the chances were that high anyway

[Arjos]

That roman axe argument is somewhat fantasious...
The army in those years was made up of germanic people, and the standard equipment was paid and made by the Romans...
Weapon and ceramic burials in the whole of central Europe trace back to the dawn of mankind almost, with the battle axe being a status symbol for thousands of years...
That the Frankish genesis is related to the roman army is most likely, but calling a late roman weapon "purely roman" is an exageration...

[Ca Putt]

but calling a late roman weapon "purely roman" is an exageration.

just late?^^

[Arjos]

ahahahahah indeed XD

[TheLastDays]

Exactly, most roman weapons were taken and sometimes improved from others...

And I don't think the chances for a third germanic faction were really high at any time...