Askthepizzaguy Mafia II: The Revengening [Concluded]

[Beskar]

Un. Be. Leivable.

Is it really?

[naut]

That was stoopid.

[Major Robert Dump]

No, the role of Rudolph was. Thus any scum constructing a cover role could have done what you did. Describe your item(s), personal ability(ies), and personal goal if you want to role reveal something that's not public knowledge and could indicate you're not a scum. It's scummy lies and strawmen like this that are repeated again and again with you. And with your "reveals" so far you even admitted to lying to everyone publicly about several of things, that in itself is more than enough reason for a lynch.

You seriously want me to tell you my items, abilites and goals? And you have not given an inkling. Laughable

Get this: I already told you my personal goals. You should be able to put 2 and 2 together from my previous post, but since you are chaotic you obviously have no idea, just like when you stated last night that your enemy was "chaotics." I might also point out that you never addressed that accusation.

[Renata]

I am RUDOLPH of the Bizarro Mafia.

WHAT.

I was told yesterday that someone else is Rudolf of the Bizarro Mafia. I was told by Earthling -- and Earthling, why below are you not contesting this? If it is you for real -- and I can't imagine why you would lie about that of all things -- then someone used a busdriver item or ability on you and this other person (who since he seems very unlikely actually to be Rudolf, I may as well reveal is Skooma Addict).

Now why would someone do that, MRD?

I have a rather strong suggestion because of this.

NOBODY VIG MRD TONIGHT.

If he is mafia, then the mafia have a bus driver, and a vig will hit someone else.

Look at this:

Even if it is a lie, 2 factions will now come for me after dark. So let me live, and then come get some, the lot of you.

You don't have a man or a single testicle in your entire family.

He's practically begging for it.

On night 2, I did try to steal 80 credits from CivPlayah because he appeared inactive and the action did not cost me anything. It was listed as a failure. But it did not cost me anything.

OK I'm with Romanic now, that is impossible. It goes directly against what AtPG told me of how credit thefts work. If you had failed, you would have lost your money. Period. You are a liar.

And you admitted you lied about being attacked.

[Renata]

ATPG, how do bus drivers interact with retaliation items? If the ultimate victim has one, they'll still function even if that wasn't the person the killer sent the order on, right?

[Major Robert Dump]

Wow.... I wake up to this?

Basically everyone who waged 30 credits to save MRD is suspicious. I didn't think the case against MRD was that strong, but now that Warman and CB just jumped into this without any explanation.... either they are fellow chaotics or simply belong to the same faction/voting bloc, which is actually also detrimental to the Mafia's interests.

Also, could someone please protect me tonight? In retrospect saying that I belong to an 'endangered' faction may not have been such a great idea! Some unreconstructed Mafioso may like to off one of their rival factions

Wait.

You admit the case was weak, then you say that others a suspicious for defending me. Furthermore, in case you did not notice, 2 of my faction members are dead, just like yours, yet you say that our "voting bloc" of a whopping 5 people is somehow detrimental to a game where credits are king.

And all of this started because of a random DAY 1 vote and someone getting silenced, yet multiple people had the GAG, one dead and one admitting it, but the initial argument has still not been addressed or retracted? It

[Renata]

Actually roleblocks would be welcome also if anyone wants to volunteer.

[Major Robert Dump]

I'm telling you, I did not lose any credits with the theft attempt. None. It was a host mistake, you people took the ball and ran with it. I didn't even vote until the end. How is what I did any worse than B-Ray? B-Ray knew YLC was a townie. And so what if I lied. WE ARE MAFIA. Go back and read Earthlings posts from

Renata, you are grasping at ghosts with me. When I was "begging for it," the votes were against me by 50+. You expect me to grovel and beg and ask for mercy after I already revealed?

I don't even pretend to understand the bus driver thing, but someone may have tried to scan me while someone else bus drivered me, because I was a likley ltarget last night.

My card is the 2 of Diamonds. It matches with Blitzens 2. I might also point out that the two hammer brothers have matching cards. I have been saying this from day 1, that some cards match under special circumstances, and that is one of the initial accusations that Earthling used to attack me, perhaps because it was tantamount to admitting that I was someone one of his friends was pretending to be.

[Renata]

It's possible Warman and some other MRD unvoters are townie. He's been leading a Voting Block the past couple of days, which explains a lot of the item votes, coordinating it through PM's. I know myself, Arpeg (before he died), and Warman to be among the people he contacted. Trusting him and voting him items haven't been the smartest things I've done in this game.

This was from choxorn. I think it pretty much lets Warman off the hook if MRD is scum, because scum don't tend to set up those sorts of item-voting rings with their teammates.

[Renata]

I don't even pretend to understand the bus driver thing, but someone may have tried to scan me while someone else bus drivered me, because I was a likley ltarget last night.

If one of your vote-block cronies wants to admit to it, in public, and discuss the circumstances of their deciding to do so, that might be helpful.

There's really no reason for anyone to randomly bus-drive you and Skooma over anyone else -- minus a huge coincidence it has to have been purposeful; and since as you say you were a likely vig target, the action has to have been meant to protect you.

So does anyone want to admit to it?

My card is the 2 of Diamonds. It matches with Blitzens 2. I might also point out that the two hammer brothers have matching cards. I have been saying this from day 1, that some cards match under special circumstances, and that is one of the initial accusations that Earthling used to attack me, perhaps because it was tantamount to admitting that I was someone one of his friends was pretending to be.

I don't know what this is supposed to mean as to alignment.

[thefluffyone93]

Skooma Addicts points this out as well.. This statement is Bogus and completely absurd.. You don't leave a bandwagon to join another bandwagon, with the explanation that you don't feel like joining bandwagons. So why exactly are you leaving the bandwagon for another?

Oh, I'm sorry,
Its not my fault that the THIRTEEN PERSON BANDWAGON didn't have enough people with the guts to go all in with 30 credits, while a measly 7 people did!
Seriously; I don't consider what I did as jumping onto another bandwagon; in fact, you could have easily won out in the betting had one of you who didn't bet above 15 credits actually did!
So please, don't blame me for the fact that people in your bandwagon wanted to save money instead of killing the person they thought was mafia.

I would also point out that while 4 of the 7 who gambled on civplayah went all in, only 3, of 13, went all in.

[Death is yonder]

Finally finished scanning through the text, and the fact that people acquiesced to your demands to place 30 credits, or 20 even is just eye-brow raising MRD, you must have promised them quite a good deal.

How is what I did any worse than B-Ray? B-Ray knew YLC was a townie.

For starters, B-Ray didn't end up convincing people to place a pile of maximum bets that ended up upping the intensity of the situation and wasting about what, 200+ credits of the overall "town" effort on the side?

And IIRC faction scans aren't conclusive, they just show the faction and its already been proven that chaotics have cover roles. B-Ray himself admitted throughout the voting phase that he didn't stop the YLC lynch as YLC was being generally inactive and unhelpful, the rivalry status of their factions was probably icing on the cake.

And well, you've been making this whole situation as if lynching you would be the end of the world. And evidently getting votes off yourself ASAP was a major concern to you.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

the question I pose to all of you is this:
At the start of the day, I was on top of the world. People voted me the Butt X-Ray, they sent PMs telling me I was LOL, they were suspicious of others. Were I truly guilty, then why would I start talking? Why would I start making accusations when I was already in the clear? Why does simply talking about possible Chaos strategy and trying to solve the card mystery make me a target?

You people are like a bunch of little monkeys going after an overturned bananna truck. This is what I get for offering healthy conversation, hypotheses and theories. And next round, after you lynch me and you see that I am innocent, you will all scramble to hide your half-eaten banannas, stuttering out excuses about this and that, to which I willl respond with quotes to show that everything you said that I said that was suspicious was actually not suspicious it was just true.

Rather than healthy debate, I should have just brought biscuits and mustard, pop-up books and pacifiers. Rather than numbering the pages, perhaps we should make them in the goemetrical shapes or farm animals so the numbers aren't so initimidating as to disocurage people from reading the entire thread. I want to say I will Publicly Claim in 2 hrs just to show you I am right, but most of the large voters probably wouldn't return to change their votes. The others would still let me die because I am a faction enemy, and because I am really, really handsome.

You jumped the gun an hour early, and that very shortly after the wager on you was raised by 40 credits overall in the space of just 7 minutes.

Watching the thread rather intently eh?

[Renata]

Oh, I'm sorry,
Its not my fault that the THIRTEEN PERSON BANDWAGON didn't have enough people with the guts to go all in with 30 credits, while a measly 7 people did!
Seriously; I don't consider what I did as jumping onto another bandwagon; in fact, you could have easily won out in the betting had one of you who didn't bet above 15 credits actually did!
So please, don't blame me for the fact that people in your bandwagon wanted to save money instead of killing the person they thought was mafia.

I would also point out that while 4 of the 7 who gambled on civplayah went all in, only 3, of 13, went all in.

Most of us could not be around at the deadline. This is actually a real problem, ATPG. If you're around, you can weigh things properly and decide things only on how much you believe in the guilt of the person you'd be trying to lynch. If you're not around, it is a guess not only on the guilt of your candidate but also on the likelihood of their being lynched at all. It's not a balanced situation.

[Renata]

For starters, B-Ray didn't end up convincing people to place a pile of maximum bets that ended up upping the intensity of the situation and wasting about what, 200+ credits of the overall "town" effort on the side?

Exactly. If MRD is town (and even if he is not, if most of the people voting in his favor were), then this was disastrous. It's not just the lynching of a no-show who should NEVER have been a candidate in the first place (his actually being a townie is almost beside the point) over an actual suspect; it's that such a huge amoutn of town funds went to waste. This cannot continue to happen. I'm almost to the point of saying huge end of day bets are INHERENTLY anti-town.

And IIRC faction scans aren't conclusive, they just show the faction and its already been proven that chaotics have cover roles. B-Ray himself admitted throughout the voting phase that he didn't stop the YLC lynch as YLC was being generally inactive and unhelpful, the rivalry status of their factions was probably icing on the cake.

And yeah. No. For all that if YLC wasn't lynched that day it may have been me instead, it was still a horrible lynch, and B-ray does deserve some blame for not making himself clear. Wasting lots of town money to lynch no-shows on a consistent basis is going to result in a loss.

[Earthling]

All right, Monty Python members, I'm a member of your faction too and we need to talk. It's stupidly obvious who I am and why the chaotics want me dead so badly but they won't succeed tonight at least, and no reason to give them more ammo now. I'm also completely happy to work with the Space faction as we are not rivals of you Spacers and getting rid of the Bizarros seems to be in the interest of everyone. Here's my thoughts on the following vote waggonners - pretty much all of these people need to be systematically exterminated.

MRD - chaotic scum, speaks for himself. I think we should lynch him tomorrow, and furthermore people who have not been voting much before need to be forced to place a good portion of the needed large, 40 credit wagers to show they are not hoarding and even things out, it's not quite fair that some of the town is losing their credits on painful and difficult lynches and others are slacking.
Warman - clearly MRD's chaotic ally. He was voting to save MRD even before civplayah by raising the bet's on ACIN when the first little accusations against MRD came out.
Skooma - Skooma is the other Bizarro member, this is definitely true from a faction scan result I heard. With his bandwagon he's clearly not acting in pro-town (anti-chaotic) interests. He should be killed on principle, but between us Pythons and the Spacers we'll ensure it anyway.
Blackadder - he could be chaotic, Bizarro, or anything, it seems to me he only metagame voted because of his previous role as a member of the Bizarro faction, which sucks but he could be excused. If he's on some random boring faction like South Park with his new role he could easily have just wanted to stall for time, assume MRD would be lynched tomorrow and waste time all on other faction conflicts.
CrazedRabbit - could be scum or anything. Least suspicious of the bunch, but I'd encourage him to be one of the ones who spends HIS credits for pro-townie efforts or lynching someone like MRD or Warman tomorrow.
ACIN - getting replaced and my opinion was his vote shouldn't have even counted, but anyway, the vote on civplayah here was too early for any of the above to really apply. We'll see what his replacement says, hopefully it's someone like Kagemusha who is active.

[Renata]

What the heck is going on with my quoting?

[Renata]

Earthling you told me that Skooma was Rudolf of the Bizarro faction.

Are you saying you have something other than that saying he is Bizarro?

[naut]

I don't know what this is supposed to mean as to alignment.

It doesn't. The cards are a great big red herring. They mean NOTHING, zero, zilch. Just a distraction.

[Earthling]

Yeah, I told you that and thought it was true but I could have been lied to by a third party (I'm not specifying who). Or a bus driver or something could explain it, or MRD is lying with a wholly fake cover role. Anyway, I want to be clear it is known that Skooma is definitely Bizarro but maybe he is supposed to be Clippy. And I see no reason to betray the neutral (Innocent and neutral to my faction, that is in my estimation) guy on that cause he can likely keep scanning.

[Major Robert Dump]

Earthlink:Keep grasping at straws at re-inventing history.
SKOOMA DID NOT VOTE. HE FOLDED. Yet you still implicate him as Bizarro. You have so many lies going it is getting hard for you to keep up.

By the way, everything in your reveal is "public knowledge." Why dont you tell us something worthwhile, like your items, your goals and your powers? SOUND FAMILIAR?

Death is Yonder: I happen to be currently working a desk job that runs late. So yes, I watch the thread. I was about to be bandwagoned by buffoonery, and making this argument you psoe is incredibly weak. And had I not revealed when I did, some of those votes for Civ may not have come or people may not have folded on me. I'm not going to keep my timeline perfect 100% when it was obvious that people were holding out to the last minute to vote big vs me.

[Major Robert Dump]

It doesn't. The cards are a great big red herring. They mean NOTHING, zero, zilch. Just a distraction.

So far, two very like characters have had like cards. 2 reindeer. 2 video game brothers. Except that my fellow reindeer was nuetral not evil. There may be other like charcters in this game. Other than that, I see no pattern, and it gets less and less likely there is one, and even if there was how does it help anyone? God forbid I bring this up again, since it is what brought me heat the first time around.

[Earthling]

I think we all know the proper policy to ignore MRD and his constant lies. Anyway, to elaborate on what I said earlier - I don't want to give the chaotics specific ammo to accomplish anything that can be prevented, we can organize our night actions in private. I do want to hear from the other Pythons even though I'm worried there may just be one remaining who is unknown to me right now and that may be only a neutral or cover role - maybe we have two remaining though, I'm not sure. And Spacers - would be great if just one of you came forward as a liason, you're in a strong position right now and you'll get free allies in all of us who want to fight the chaotics, if you want to focus on fighting the chaotics too. Though for that matter, I'm happy to ally with remaining Simpsons (your faction is also probably pretty screwed), Evil Mafias (same, so we really need to cooperate no matter what) and anyone else who want to work against the chaotics.

[Renata]

MRD - chaotic scum, speaks for himself. I think we should lynch him tomorrow, and furthermore people who have not been voting much before need to be forced to place a good portion of the needed large, 40 credit wagers to show they are not hoarding and even things out, it's not quite fair that some of the town is losing their credits on painful and difficult lynches and others are slacking.

To show they are not hoarding? That's rich.

See my comments above.A huge stack of smaller bets would be preferable. Make anyone who wants to save MRD that badly bet the farm to do so and likely go bankrupt in the process. I would accept that as an appropriate payback for being so anti-town in the first place. And if MRD is somehow not not-town, the town doesn't lose hundreds and hundreds of credits betting on him.

Warman - clearly MRD's chaotic ally. He was voting to save MRD even before civplayah by raising the bet's on ACIN when the first little accusations against MRD came out.

Not entirely clear given choxorn's information. I wouldn't count on it.

Skooma - Skooma is the other Bizarro member, this is definitely true from a faction scan result I heard. With his bandwagon he's clearly not acting in pro-town (anti-chaotic) interests. He should be killed on principle, but between us Pythons and the Spacers we'll ensure it anyway.

LOL. Skooma didn't even have a bet placed at the end of the day, he sort of un-bandwagoned. I'm not sure if he's scummy or not for that, needs looking into.

Blackadder - he could be chaotic, Bizarro, or anything, it seems to me he only metagame voted because of his previous role as a member of the Bizarro faction, which sucks but he could be excused. If he's on some random boring faction like South Park with his new role he could easily have just wanted to stall for time, assume MRD would be lynched tomorrow and waste time all on other faction conflicts.

Too many assumptions, the only safe one being that he is probably not Bizarro *now*. Who did CB sub in for, anyway?

CrazedRabbit - could be scum or anything. Least suspicious of the bunch, but I'd encourage him to be one of the ones who spends HIS credits for pro-townie efforts or lynching someone like MRD or Warman tomorrow.

First thing he says all game is in your own biggest suspect's favor and you don't find him suspicious? That makes no sense, Earthling.

ACIN - getting replaced and my opinion was his vote shouldn't have even counted, but anyway, the vote on civplayah here was too early for any of the above to really apply. We'll see what his replacement says, hopefully it's someone like Kagemusha who is active.

I hope so too. I still don't know what to think of him.

[Renata]

So far, two very like characters have had like cards. 2 reindeer. 2 video game brothers. Except that my fellow reindeer was nuetral not evil. There may be other like charcters in this game. Other than that, I see no pattern, and it gets less and less likely there is one, and even if there was how does it help anyone? God forbid I bring this up again, since it is what brought me heat the first time around.

No, your fellow reindeer was evil.

The point is you've obviously been trying to use it to demonstrate something about yourself. Maybe "The Flax was evil, and so were both the Hammer Brothers, so I must be evil, too".

[Earthling]

See my comments above.A huge stack of smaller bets would be preferable. Make anyone who wants to save MRD that badly bet the farm to do so and likely go bankrupt in the process. I would accept that as an appropriate payback for being so anti-town in the first place. And if MRD is somehow not not-town, the town doesn't lose hundreds and hundreds of credits betting on him.

Too many assumptions, the only safe one being that he is probably not Bizarro *now*. Who did CB sub in for, anyway?

First thing he says all game is in your own biggest suspect's favor and you don't find him suspicious? That makes no sense, Earthling.

Well of course, 10 per person is possible too for like twenty people but if it comes down to it and people won't do that, which to be honest is probably what it will come down to again, meaning it'd be a smaller number of people with more credits per person, then those who have been lurking/hoarding the whole time need a little extra push. The same total number of credits would be needed, either gained back or lost anyway, not suggesting we bet 100 credits over the point where he could save himself just because and risk townie losses,. just that out of those credits, those who are able to afford more and haven't contributed should do so.

I think we need to figure that out, he replaced Double A but no clue what character/faction.

Well he is on the list to be systematically exterminated for anti-town behavior in general, I just don't have any specific suspicions about him. :p

[Major Robert Dump]

dbl post needed quote

[Major Robert Dump]

No, your fellow reindeer was evil.

The point is you've obviously been trying to use it to demonstrate something about yourself. Maybe "The Flax was evil, and so were both the Hammer Brothers, so I must be evil, too".

good. the theory makes even more sense then

[Death is yonder]

Death is Yonder: I happen to be currently working a desk job that runs late. So yes, I watch the thread. I was about to be bandwagoned by buffoonery, and making this argument you psoe is incredibly weak. And had I not revealed when I did, some of those votes for Civ may not have come or people may not have folded on me. I'm not going to keep my timeline perfect 100% when it was obvious that people were holding out to the last minute to vote big vs me.

Well that's fine and all MRD but you still haven't answered why your life is so precious that you had to ask so many people to save you with maximum credit votes which you yourself denounced.

And even more amusing than the more amusing thing before, is that I get max credit votes. Max credit votes, so far in this game, have been 100% wrong. I think we have either found some Chaotics, or perhaps a faction that is still strong and in comms with one another and trying to snowball anyone they see as a threat. They especially see me as a threat since I will likley get the Butt X-ray

And you obviously had no complains about it, because you got to waste everyone's credits, and now you get to do it again via night actions/the next day's lynch.

Moreover all this while when people have questioned you about how you know about the cards and other features, a prime example would be Choxorn's interactions with you via pm which he posted in thread, you deflected the general question and answered only by saying that you inferred from the card set up and stuff (despite you treating your words as if it were a major concession [see choxorn's post]), yet clearly your behavior in thread does not match a person who doesn't really have anything to lose.

We happen to be playing a particular type of game where innocent people die 90% of the time, its not the tragedy you're making it out to be.

Edit: Here's the quote;

I just gave you a piece of information that you will very soon find out is true as people start dropping dead. Believe it or don't believe it, but don't expect any more goose eggs from me until you give me something in return.

But I am right about the cards. You will see.

Then again, you admitted that you lied:

I broke no rules, everything was a lie except that I also have a 2, which matches the 2 of my dead clanmate, which is what started it all. You were the first person I talked to in the thread. i forwarded my PMs to the host.

Which brings us to the next question, why are you lying to people to try and gain their support, to squeeze stuff out of them with false information for your own gain?

[Earthling]

Actually I wanted to comment on something one more time both because Renata said this extremely well and we need to try one more time for a coherent, pro-townie voting strategy.

Most of us could not be around at the deadline. This is actually a real problem, ATPG. If you're around, you can weigh things properly and decide things only on how much you believe in the guilt of the person you'd be trying to lynch. If you're not around, it is a guess not only on the guilt of your candidate but also on the likelihood of their being lynched at all. It's not a balanced situation.

Pointed out day one. And it gets worse each day as the maximum goes up, three people make 60 credit votes at the deadline could drown out pretty much everyone else with 5-10 credit votes. And that's not even factoring in folding - like last night, me or choxorn could have each folded at the last second and saved thirty credits - we didn't and it was too close to call perhaps, but for a scum it'd be even easier to be like 50, 60, 70 and fold at the last minute and only lose one. Fundamentally there's nothing fair that we even had that chance and, say, Romanichine, Zack, robbiecon who also lost a lot of credits on the losing wagon, didn't.

However, seems like we have no choice but to try to work within the limitations we have anyway, so:

All townies make somewhere in the range of 5-10 credit bets each day as a baseline, no more, no less, and we can build a solid wagon of some tens of credits at least on leading scum suspects. When needed people are specified by the rest of the town collectively to increase their wagers (so, say, we decide we want to force [Joe] to raise his vote to 40 on MRD, to show Joe's compliance and raise the total a bit to ensure the scum is lynched). And from now on last-minute stuff is universally responded against with force by the rest of the town.

[Death is yonder]

All townies make somewhere in the range of 5-10 credit bets each day as a baseline, no more, no less, and we can build a solid wagon of some tens of credits at least on leading scum suspects. When needed people are specified by the rest of the town collectively to increase their wagers (so, say, we decide we want to force [Joe] to raise his vote to 40 on MRD, to show Joe's compliance and raise the total a bit to ensure the scum is lynched). And from now on last-minute stuff is universally responded against with force by the rest of the town.

I disagree.

If every townie was to make a 10 credit baseline bet every single day phase (as an illustration), the net overall result after every phase is a dramatic drop in overall town credits. All the chaotic fellows have to do is maintain killing, sit tight, and eventually the town will run dry and a forced victory will occur.