Askthepizzaguy Mafia II: The Revengening [Concluded]

[Kagemusha]

As quite few people seem to have beef with MRD it would seem he is the lynch of today. It will be quite interesting to see what his autopsy will tell us and about the people who want him dead.

[Romanic]

I agree completely, that sounds right. As he has more than proven his ability and intent to get around right before the closing bell, him and a couple of others he could scrounge up could work a 120 credit swing with the 40 credit maximum today, a fourth person makes that 160, so I think we want to be safely over 160 credits just in case. That would definitely mean no intermediate wagons on top of which those last minutes credits could ride. Overall this is just 5-6 credits per person though so if everybody is in for a fair stake nobody individually loses too much - but then again I don't think we lose anything at all, in fact some people betting more might hope to make larger gains on him coming up chaotic though not quite sure how that works and not asking anyone to go overboard.

You don't win money for lynching a chaotic, you simply get your wager back. So betting 5 or 40 will both return your credits for a net benefit of zero.

[Earthling]

That would be my first impression but an awful lot of people have continued to assume otherwise through the present day, and the rules are vague enough as we never had an official clarification that they could have some reason for doing so. Though I certainly wouldn't encourage anyone to risk anything needlessly just for the sake of that.

[Romanic]

That rule is clear:

No matter how much they bet, they can only get their wagers returned to them if the candidate they wagered on is both guilty AND successfully lynched that day.

Wager is "returned", there's no mention of winning credits for lynching a guilty player. Also, it worked the same way in the first ATPG Mafia game.

Although I think it could be interesting to give extra credits to those who lynch a guilty player, an idea for ATPG Mafia 3, perhaps.

[B-Wing]

As quite few people seem to have beef with MRD it would seem he is the lynch of today. It will be quite interesting to see what his autopsy will tell us and about the people who want him dead.

You think it might prove half the players are actually chaotic?

[Earthling]

Given how much stuff has happened that's vague or not mentioned in the rules it's probably the case but no guarantee, there's no explicit statement that additional credits can't be won. Lots of people continue(d) to assume it's the case too. Of course I would agree it can't hurt if everyone is clear on it and it was misunderstood but until we catch a chaotic in a lynch or hear from the host it doesn't seem a 100% thing. Though it's also possible that most everyone did realize it would work one way and only folks like Blackadder and Crazed Rabbit (see end of day three around post 700) purposefully said otherwise because they were scum and trying to create distracting excuses for bandwagonning.

edit - that is something I would love to hear though. Obviously Kage has it backwards, but we really should hear - why did everyone who voted to keep MRD alive, want him alive. It's clear Skooma and possibly Blackadder did it out of faction loyalty, but they didn't fess up to it, and the rest have continued to ignore this again and again. Even if he comes up neutral or not chaotic in some matter those who supported him yesterday don't get to pretend they were right all along when they haven't given a reason, or if he does come up chaotic we need to have them on the record rather than slinking away into the shadows.

[Kagemusha]

You think it might prove half the players are actually chaotic?

No just bit and pieces of information.Nothing more, nothing less.

[Major Robert Dump]

Of course they read my posts. I am like a train wreck full of topless women.

@ Earthling's text wall: So I am guilty because of my support for Seon in the 1st round and by voting 10 creds on my own faction member for whom I mistakenly thought I would get a profit from? Black was already dead, I'll say it for the 100th time, and by voting him and him being nuetral I got my bet back. Making a case from a day 1 vote is absurd. As for my shenanigans, last I checked this town was full of characyers that are liars and murderers, pardon me for fitting in. Think I am faking on my claim, then why did the host include "stomping hooves" in the freaking lynch write up pertaining to me? I also find it pretty keen that you are now including "neutrals" in the list of town enemies.

@ Choxorm: I will eat your shorts as soon as you write that essay on why you want to feast on my Venison Sausage so badly.

@everyone: if the person is guilty and chaotic, you get your money back plus a bet return. If the person is nuetral you get your money back and break even, as I did in round 1 when I got 10 credits returned to me from a neutral kill. Keep dropping those large bets early, and when you finally lynch the right person on day 254, you all will win a whopping 2 credits. Good job. Oos, better not be sarcastic like I was with YLCs lynch or someone may think I am anti-town!

I'm beginning to think Earthling is less and less chaotic and just a really bad liar like me.

[Major Robert Dump]

A final hypothesis:

If you read nothing else I post ever, please read this:

Each faction, there are 8 so far, has a nuetral and/or a chaotic member. Someone somewhere claimed a faction several pages back after a lynch or night, and I still do not know if they were serious and the name escapes me. So possibly 9?

Anyway, I highly doubt each faction has a nuetral AND chaotic. It has to be either-or, otherwise, there would be a lot of Chaotics (at least 8) and a lot of neutrals, which would be more than 25%of the population and the game would be unbalanced. Also, if there were both per faction, then statistically speaking we would have seen far more of either thus far, especially in the factions that have lost three members.

This accounts for 32 (4x8) or 40 players(8x5). Are there more than 8 factions, or there are more than 4 players per faction? Is it 8x6 plus 2 non factioned, 9x5 plus 5 non factioned, or 10x5? I find 10x5 the most likley. The following theory changes slightly based on your opinion of the numbers, but one overriding point remains: 1 per faction.. That would give us, for example, 40 evil with 10 nuetral/chaotic.

With all this being said, I make one last case to be spared. The factions in which a Chaotic or Nuetral member have already been killed have no more such members. While it may be convenient for my case since I lost a nuetral ally already, I mention this more as food for thought after my death when you realize your mistake:

-- The Evil Mafia has already lost 3 people, none of them nuetral or chaotic. Shlin is almost certainly a member of the evil mafia because I stole the Tanooki suit from him turn 2. He admits it and so do I. It looks like a little gay sweater. The Evil mafia has a super mario theme, and the sweater is a super mario item. The only other possibility is that the Shlin stole an item during night 1 and it combined with the bullet proof item he won on Day 2 to make a new product. If he is Evil Mafia, This means Shlin is either certainly nuetral or chaotic (4 members) or there is a 50% chance that he is (5 members).

-- The Python Mafia has lost 2 players, therefore if Earthlink is who he says he is, then there is either a 50% chance he is nuetral or Chaotic (4 members) or a 33% chance (5 members)

-- The Springfield Mafia has had one dead Chaotic out of 3 dead members, which means the remaining player is certainly pro-town (4 members) or each remaining players is 50% chance nuetral or chaotic (5 members)

-- the Bizarro Faction has lost 2 players, with one dead being Nuetral. This means that the remaining 2 or 3 are not Chaotic or nuetral, they are evil.

The other factions currently each have a Chaotic or Nuetral left in their ranks. Of the 35 players remaining, there are at least 5 Chaotic/Nuetral, with the remainder depending on whether there are more than 8 factions or more than 4 players per faction.

This is the part where faction members need to stop protecting their known fellows and instead start detective scans or the process of elimination. Throwing your chaotic faction member to the wolves will be a tough choice and to do so publicly will certainly make you a target of the other clans. On the other hand, the clans that are still strong will almost certainly attempt to take advantage of the situation and protect their chaotic member in hopes of eeking out a clan victory as well. This is what will kill the town, and I have no doubt that several factions have members who are all communicating, due to whatever method they used to discover one another. I, on the other hand, have no idea who my 4th and 5th members are, but I have a very good idea.

I find it highly unlikely that no one up to this point has scanned me, as I have been a loudmouth from day 1 and even survived a lynch that followed a 2 nights and 1 days of harsh accusations against me. I am Bizarro, and someone does not want you guys to know because being Bizarro proves my innocence.

Use your heads, people. This is so obvious it is painful.

[Jolt]

Actually this theory does make a lot of sense. I would abstain, but as you pointed out yourself, I'd lose one credit eitherway. If your bandwagon loses gas, then I'll probably shift my credit elsewhere.

[Believer]

Assuming that game is perfectly balanced with 1 chaotic or neutral in each team is so naive I can't even fathom how you came to that conclusion.

Not only is it way too simple for a mafia game of this planning and scale but also our host is the beloved ATPG. The Master of Deviousness and Deception (also known as Dr. MDD) will never make it so simple as that. What does ATPG love? ATPG loves to play the game, he loves to hold the sieve and shake out the enemies regardless of game setup. I will be very surprised if your theory holds water. Right now it just looks like you're ditching out one last attempt at saving yourself, badly masking it as a helpful act.

I'm not buying it.

[a completely inoffensive name]

I suggest no one else bets on MRD to conserve credits. The last thing the mafia needs right now is a betting frenzy of a single dude getting 120+ credits and him turning out to be evil.

From what I have read in these past couple pages this seems to be how things are playing out:
1. Kill MRD. If he is innocent goto 2.
2. Kill Earthling. If he is innocent goto3.
3. Kill CR and Fluffy. If they are innocent goto 4.
4. Chaotics win.

I have a strong feeling both MRD and Earthling are innocent in this and we are getting screwed over here but I can't say that for sure because I am not even sure if MRD is innocent. But I don't want this viewpoint to go unheard before the lynch.

[Jolt]

Assuming that game is perfectly balanced with 1 chaotic or neutral in each team is so naive I can't even fathom how you came to that conclusion.

Not only is it way too simple for a mafia game of this planning and scale but also our host is the beloved ATPG. The Master of Deviousness and Deception (also known as Dr. MDD) will never make it so simple as that. What does ATPG love? ATPG loves to play the game, he loves to hold the sieve and shake out the enemies regardless of game setup. I will be very surprised if your theory holds water. Right now it just looks like you're ditching out one last attempt at saving yourself, badly masking it as a helpful act.

I'm not buying it.

In large games everything is usually balanced. Even in ATPG's Resident Evil game, every team/faction was perfectly balanced with its opposites. And putting 1 non-town in each faction is the best way to balance a game for every faction.

[Zack]

Oh, come on! You honestly think Pizza would make it so easy, that once you find one chaotic/third-party in a faction, everyone else in that faction is evil?


What a silly, silly "theory". Screams of a desperate attempt to weasel out of the lynch, and not as an actual plausible theory.

[God Emperor]

.. That hurts my brain..

you are correct that you are working with a hypothesis, so please keep that in mind.. a hypothesis is an educated guess, in other words; it is not proved. Therefore it is complete none sense to claim that Bizaro proves your innocence.. You are misleading to save your hide, that's what you are doing.

[shlin28]

I guess I'll reveal Faction No. 9 then... They are my rivals, hence my reluctance to actually reveal my faction (Though I did say that I am a member of an 'endangered' faction)

Evil - 3 deaths
Springfield - 3 deaths, 1 is cover for SK
Bizzaro - 2 deaths, 1 is neutral
Dark Falls - 2 deaths, 1 is chaotic
Python - 2 deaths
South Park - 1 death
Psychotic - 1 death
Space - 1 death
Cosa Nostra - NO DEATHS so far!

It's an interesting theory from MRD, but as said by Believer, it is a bit simplistic. A random selection of cover roles and different numbers for different factions would make the game much more chaotic and suits ATPG's style more. Furthermore, I highly doubt the existence of un-factioned people, so each faction must have different number of people!

Unless there is a 10th faction, in which case I offer my neck to the town if they wish to kill me to test MRD's reasonable (but false) theory.

Edit: Also, why on earth would you try to steal my item? Did I act that suspiciously on D2? Surely you would go for someone who appears scummy to you...

[Believer]

I just remembered.

Unless she told someone that she would be unable to post this day, I believe Renata has been silenced once again. It would make sense since she hasn't weighed in at all.

[Earthling]

No, Renata has responded to a private message of mine and we talked about whether Greyblades was attacked or not, and she indicated she'd been in contact with Greyblades obviously too. The silencing before also banned private messaging so I doubt that's the case.

I suggest no one else bets on MRD to conserve credits. The last thing the mafia needs right now is a betting frenzy of a single dude getting 120+ credits and him turning out to be evil.

The worst thing that happens is that MRD isn't lynched today and we lose credits. If everyone bet about 6 credits and even if we lost nearly 200, that's less than the 10 credit income everyone made anyway, and less by half than we lost yesterday. If there's one thing I agree with in that wasted post of MRD's though it is that people need to suck it up and bet against their chaotic faction members when it becomes necessary. That's why I'd like to see both Skooma and Blackadder (who as a replacement could be on any faction but I'd love to hear more about Seinfeld regardless) making large bets against MRD today. For instance, I don't trust Subotan's 40 credit vote at all - after max voting and losing a couple days and who knows what at night, he might not even have 40 credits available to bet. And that's assuming he doesn't intend to both fold and change to a different bandwagon at the deadline, making an 80 vote swing. We need to have a stable tally that can't be thrown off at the last minute today, it sucks but it's how it has to be.

Also, ACIN, there's no need for a step 3 in your sequence, step 2 would lead to step 4. But I don't think we'll go past step 1 anyway. And what happened to all your promised new info/analysis from the other night?

Finally one thing I'd like to point out - there seems like a very strong possibility factions have different numbers of people. It hardly adds up otherwise, just maybe a 10x5 theory would work but nothing else does. And then you have to look at characters - it'd be nigh impossible for the Python mafia to have more than 5 characters and I'm still thinking it may just be one of the Knights who say Ni out there. This Cosa Nostra mafia presumably must be those Valerio guys? - don't see anyone else on the list of linked games that would be, but that's only three characters and maybe some oddball fourth one. Meanwhile some factions like the Simpsons or Space guys have tons more available characters at least, the assymetry is rather likely.

[Choxorn]

A final hypothesis:

If you read nothing else I post ever, please read this:

Each faction, there are 8 so far, has a nuetral and/or a chaotic member. Someone somewhere claimed a faction several pages back after a lynch or night, and I still do not know if they were serious and the name escapes me. So possibly 9?

Anyway, I highly doubt each faction has a nuetral AND chaotic. It has to be either-or, otherwise, there would be a lot of Chaotics (at least 8) and a lot of neutrals, which would be more than 25%of the population and the game would be unbalanced. Also, if there were both per faction, then statistically speaking we would have seen far more of either thus far, especially in the factions that have lost three members.

This accounts for 32 (4x8) or 40 players(8x5). Are there more than 8 factions, or there are more than 4 players per faction? Is it 8x6 plus 2 non factioned, 9x5 plus 5 non factioned, or 10x5? I find 10x5 the most likley. The following theory changes slightly based on your opinion of the numbers, but one overriding point remains: 1 per faction.. That would give us, for example, 40 evil with 10 nuetral/chaotic.

With all this being said, I make one last case to be spared. The factions in which a Chaotic or Nuetral member have already been killed have no more such members. While it may be convenient for my case since I lost a nuetral ally already, I mention this more as food for thought after my death when you realize your mistake:

-- The Evil Mafia has already lost 3 people, none of them nuetral or chaotic. Shlin is almost certainly a member of the evil mafia because I stole the Tanooki suit from him turn 2. He admits it and so do I. It looks like a little gay sweater. The Evil mafia has a super mario theme, and the sweater is a super mario item. The only other possibility is that the Shlin stole an item during night 1 and it combined with the bullet proof item he won on Day 2 to make a new product. If he is Evil Mafia, This means Shlin is either certainly nuetral or chaotic (4 members) or there is a 50% chance that he is (5 members).

-- The Python Mafia has lost 2 players, therefore if Earthlink is who he says he is, then there is either a 50% chance he is nuetral or Chaotic (4 members) or a 33% chance (5 members)

-- The Springfield Mafia has had one dead Chaotic out of 3 dead members, which means the remaining player is certainly pro-town (4 members) or each remaining players is 50% chance nuetral or chaotic (5 members)

-- the Bizarro Faction has lost 2 players, with one dead being Nuetral. This means that the remaining 2 or 3 are not Chaotic or nuetral, they are evil.

The other factions currently each have a Chaotic or Nuetral left in their ranks. Of the 35 players remaining, there are at least 5 Chaotic/Nuetral, with the remainder depending on whether there are more than 8 factions or more than 4 players per faction.

This is the part where faction members need to stop protecting their known fellows and instead start detective scans or the process of elimination. Throwing your chaotic faction member to the wolves will be a tough choice and to do so publicly will certainly make you a target of the other clans. On the other hand, the clans that are still strong will almost certainly attempt to take advantage of the situation and protect their chaotic member in hopes of eeking out a clan victory as well. This is what will kill the town, and I have no doubt that several factions have members who are all communicating, due to whatever method they used to discover one another. I, on the other hand, have no idea who my 4th and 5th members are, but I have a very good idea.

I find it highly unlikely that no one up to this point has scanned me, as I have been a loudmouth from day 1 and even survived a lynch that followed a 2 nights and 1 days of harsh accusations against me. I am Bizarro, and someone does not want you guys to know because being Bizarro proves my innocence.

Use your heads, people. This is so obvious it is painful.

Cool Story, Bro.

[Earthling]

unvote, vote: SWORD OF KAHLESS to shlin . It really seems like you need it and especially with that info shared, plus it's far, far better than this fluffy/B_ray nonsense which is shady intrafactional dealing at best and pure scummy at worst. Also given that MRD was the one who stole from you that definitely doesn't look too scummy on your part. I would certainly like additional defense or retaliation but in the interest of helping another townie can do without it another night, especially as we'll have MRD's hoard of items to deal with tomorrow and whatever else to vote out. I'm still game for the scanner as I have a night action slot free but I believe I already said what I'd promise to try with that.

[a completely inoffensive name]

The worst thing that happens is that MRD isn't lynched today and we lose credits. If everyone bet about 6 credits and even if we lost nearly 200, that's less than the 10 credit income everyone made anyway, and less by half than we lost yesterday. If there's one thing I agree with in that wasted post of MRD's though it is that people need to suck it up and bet against their chaotic faction members when it becomes necessary. That's why I'd like to see both Skooma and Blackadder (who as a replacement could be on any faction but I'd love to hear more about Seinfeld regardless) making large bets against MRD today. For instance, I don't trust Subotan's 40 credit vote at all - after max voting and losing a couple days and who knows what at night, he might not even have 40 credits available to bet. And that's assuming he doesn't intend to both fold and change to a different bandwagon at the deadline, making an 80 vote swing. We need to have a stable tally that can't be thrown off at the last minute today, it sucks but it's how it has to be.

Also, ACIN, there's no need for a step 3 in your sequence, step 2 would lead to step 4. But I don't think we'll go past step 1 anyway. And what happened to all your promised new info/analysis from the other night?

My analysis went out the window when both Zack and Choxorn died.

I thought it was looking like a clear scapegoat on MRD by the chaotics. Or I thought that the chaotics were spread out on both sides and were just promoting a bandwagon on MRD that would lead to backlash against you, Earthling.

I still hold that in this, both MRD and Earthling are probably both innocent than one or the other being chaotic. Don't hold me to that though, because with Zack and Choxorn died I have no idea if this was a desperate measure to try and thin the anti-MRD numbers.

But I mean, I'm sitting here thinking about it and it doesn't make sense. MRD has gone out of his way to attract attention, he has made blatant moves to protect himself and has admitted that he has lied. If MRD is chaotic then he is a very poor player. Consider this, one chaotic is dead and if MRD is chaotic, then that is two dead and there would still still be like ~65% of the total players left. It wouldn't look good for the chaotics.

If anyone is willing to think outside the box once MRD is dead, you are welcome to join me.

Now I don't want to accuse anyone here, but in the interest of having a backup plan in case MRD is evil, lets look at last lynch and try to see it if you were a chaotic. If MRD is evil, than he has been scapegoated. Now chaotics want to make sure the mafia spend lots of money on this scapegoat, but they don't want to spend lots of money themselves because that is counter productive. So a good option might be to place small bets but voice a strong opinion against MRD to keep a bandwagon effect going.

Those that bet on MRD but bet very small amounts were Visorslash with 1 cred, Link with 2 cred, Jolt with 1 cred and B-Ray with 1 cred. I guess you could also lump in Renata with 5 cred but she has already made public her sentiment about betting large amounts.

Now this is just me thinking out my *** here, and don't take it seriously unless MRD is innocent. Otherwise, I am an idiot who has been fooled by MRD. If MRD turns out be chaotic, you got my trust and my vote Earthling.
EDIT: Err, I meant you got my vote on who you want people to vote on, I'm not going to actually vote for you.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Let's be clear why I am supporting MRD;

He's funny. I find it humorous to read his posts.

Also, he seemed to be actually trying to figure out who the chaotics are.

When he sent me a PM asking for help to not get lynched, I obliged.

fluffy and CR - I think you should go further and publicly declare that if at any point I die and I'm just a regular evil mafia, the rest of the town should turn on you and kill you immediately. Your case against me being nothing other than "what MRD says" is really sad. If you think you have an actual case, come up with a verifiable in-game reason other than "what you thought someone said" and claim it, lynching based on the last guy's say-so is a universally horrible method of lynching. Especially as everyone knows the case on MRD is not because of me at all, it's because of him supporting the chaotic Seon and lying publicly about tons of stuff. Vote for me today instead of MRD if you think that is the wise choice and do it openly, don't hide and wait to switch your vote at the last second either. Otherwise everybody knows this is a really scummy tactic, suggesting that somebody has to die next in the next day's lynch for no reason except supposed revenge, and you know you're using this tactic too.

Bah. You first. My case against you has nothing to do with what MRD says. It's you disgorging walls of text and trying to lynch active pro-town players.

I'm not voting anyone today because voting for anyone but MRD means your target won't get lynched and voting for MRD means you lose money anyway.

You having to die tomorrow has nothing to do with revenge and everything to do with crime and punishment. You pushed the lynch on MRD with false reasoning. When that reasoning is exposed as false, you should be lynched. The mafia hides behind false reasoning to get townies lynched.

CR

[Earthling]

Oh I agree with you on one point: what MRD is says very little about me if he's not chaotic. I've already pointed out this to those who were speaking vague nonsense and they actually ran away ignoring it and declined to comment on my post. And I certainly have already thought about what to look at if MRD comes up non-chaotic (a crazy neutral thief or whatever means it's not a failed lynch but it means we haven't caught a chaotic). I'd be looking very strongly at those who are trying to turn the "hypothetical future lynch" against me. This would be Jolt, Crazed Rabbit, and fluffy from the Day Three bandwagon and today we'll see. Why? It's really obvious, the chaotics really want me dead and in all the random lies people have been posting nobody has provided even a whiff of anything to the contrary.

In fact I was astonished that before I posted today nobody had figured out so obviously that I was the Black Knight. The fact of the matter is that the chaotics are really scared silly of an Innocent they've twice failed to nightkill. But some of them are doing an awful good job sandbagging for dumb evil factional conflicts on top of probably those actual evil folks who don't read the thread or throw out strawmen willy nilly.

Last thing though is that I wouldn't call it poor play from MRD necessarily if he is chaotic though, extremely annoying posting, but not poor play itself. He was screwed when Seon died, due to their blatant voting association. It's actually horrible play by the town or good play by him that he lived this long since he should have been lynched even if he is Innocent - it's not like our previous wagons were better options, the Seon connection has been so obviously there, and for instance had I not been silenced and was able to talk on Day 2, I would have called for his lynch then, the fact that people tried to lynch Renata for the reason that MRD should have been lynched is still scummy.

edit - no, Rabbit, you don't get to lie like that. Explain now why you think my reasoning is false. MRD did vote to save Seon, encouraged every bandwagon against non-chaotics so far, and lied about what he did at night tons of times with his final conclusion being that he stole stuff from other townies. Tell what part of that is false reasoning on my part.

[robbiecon]

Well, seeing as I was one of the main people who made a case against MRD yesterday, I think it only right that I stick to my guns. Although my opinion hasn't changed all that much in the past 48 hours or so.

Bet: 5 credits on Major Robert Dump, conservative enough amount, I know, but there's plenty on the money train (ie bandwagon) already.




Aside: I begin my college exams in two days time, they last for almost 3 weeks (and there's 10 of them). While I will still be here, you must accept that there will inevitably be days when I have to put Electronics and the like (massive groan) before this and just about any other game I might be in. I will do my best to be present, but I will admit that I may not always be up to date with what exactly is going on, perhaps not necessarily in this game, but quite possibly in a variety of other ones. Also note that I do not wish to be replaced, at this time anyway in any game.

[Zack]

Let's be clear why I am supporting MRD;

He's funny. I find it humorous to read his posts.

Also, he seemed to be actually trying to figure out who the chaotics are.

When he sent me a PM asking for help to not get lynched, I obliged.



Bah. You first. My case against you has nothing to do with what MRD says. It's you disgorging walls of text and trying to lynch active pro-town players.

I'm not voting anyone today because voting for anyone but MRD means your target won't get lynched and voting for MRD means you lose money anyway.

You having to die tomorrow has nothing to do with revenge and everything to do with crime and punishment. You pushed the lynch on MRD with false reasoning. When that reasoning is exposed as false, you should be lynched. The mafia hides behind false reasoning to get townies lynched.

CR

So, to make this clear, you don't think there is a single person worthy of wagering 1 credit (that you will lose regardless of whether or not you vote) on?

[Jolt]

I'd be looking very strongly at those who are trying to turn the "hypothetical future lynch" against me. This would be Jolt, Crazed Rabbit, and fluffy from the Day Three bandwagon and today we'll see. Why? It's really obvious, the chaotics really want me dead and in all the random lies people have been posting nobody has provided even a whiff of anything to the contrary.

Yes, yes. It is a very devious and cunning scheme we three chaotics have set up where we three publicly announce that we want to lynch you, and after you are dead, it remains another few 20 or so townies we'd need to kill. Top-notch reasoning.And the fact that you already defending his lynching even if he's innocent clearly shows to me that you are scum. One thing you can absolutely certainly expect from me is being voted by me if MRD isn't Mafia, no matter how hard you look.

EDIT: If there are more than 8 mafia (And so far, Shlin has been credible enough for me to believe him), then MRD's whole theory becomes rather moot.

[Earthling]

Well yes, I'm going to expect the chaotics to keep trying to lynch me, because they don't know the secret of how to kill me at night, since they don't have the six Elements of Harmony.

Like I said, don't be a hypocrit and a liar. Vote now for who you think is scum and don't blame someone else if a lynch finds something unexpected and you voted for the same lynch for the same reasons. I'm not claiming you should vote for MRD for any other reason than what is public and it certainly is not my fault MRD was acting scummy before I had anything to do with him. If you agree MRD is likely scum due to his previous bandwagons, votes, and statements, vote for him, if not, vote for someone else.

[Jolt]

Well yes, I'm going to expect the chaotics to keep trying to lynch me, because they don't know the secret of how to kill me at night, since they don't have the six Elements of Harmony.

Like I said, don't be a hypocrit and a liar. Vote now for who you think is scum and don't blame someone else if a lynch finds something unexpected and you voted for the same lynch for the same reasons. I'm not claiming you should vote for MRD for any other reason than what is public and it certainly is not my fault MRD was acting scummy before I had anything to do with him. If you agree MRD is likely scum due to his previous bandwagons, votes, and statements, vote for him, if not, vote for someone else.

No doubt that he was acting scummy, which is why I won't say for certain that he isn't Mafia. Your whole theory of MRD helping Seon escape lynching on purpose, and lynching townies on purpose, you clearly state that he cannot be anything other than Mafia, for such blatant connections you are making. Even being a neutral, MRD would still have to know who was Mafia or not (Which to find, contact, and purposely save a Mafioso on Day 1 would be extremely impressive - and practically impossible. If MRD's that skilled at finding Mafioso out of nothing and turning them to town, then we'd probably be ending this game around these next phases.) and then systematically help them since the very beginning. Nothing else but being a blatant mafioso means you are correct. So even if he's a Neutral, it's extremely doubtful he was purposedly helping the Mafia. If he's a normal townie, then you have clearly lost any and all credibility with the town. Coupled with the constant contradictions and the lying (Making you no better than MRD you're trying to lynch), means you're very well placed to be a Mafioso. Thus: Lynch.

[Earthling]

Everybody can read this, but I want them to know it's Jolt fault for continued spam or whatever negative view of the thread they have. He keeps on making baseless accusations without providing evidence.

So Jolt, stop lying about me. Tell me what you think I lied about and quote it. You ignored me before, because you want to keep calling me a liar and making people think there's some controversy and the town shouldn't like me. But you have no evidence and are simply making it up. I didn't lie about anything that matters at this point, and at most I lied about maybe two things, one of which was trivial, the other already extensively addressed.

[Beskar]

Bet 1: Beskar because he is awesome
but fold; bet 1: Crazed Rabbit because he is cool.