Is the Tosa cup worthless?

[Oda]

Sorry oda, but that game wasn't a really good example of rock-paper-scissors. As mentioned by a lot of people here,there are a lot of better things you could have done, and I think the fact that your immediate response was to run away and hide in a forest somewhat betrays your inexperience.

You see, it is always easy to criticize other people for not following your imaginary scenarios. As a matter of fact however, bow-cav armies devastate inf armies on the open field that are inferior in firepower. This was the very reason why bow cav was strictly regulated in all previous TW titles. But if you are really convinced that your theories are true and your decision making is superior to mine, we can practically prove it in a game. If not, then don't waste my time with your fantasizing.

@Swoosh So:
This is what I would have agreed to. But my enemy didn't, and the admin was too incompetent to intervene properly and force such a game.

@AggonyKing:
The forest is only on one side of the map. So it is possible to fight on Ricefields without being obstructed by the forest, which is obviously the reason why I mentioned it explicitly.

1. Your build is very weak to archer spam.
2. I don't care what your build looks like.
3. " why didn't you take advantage of knowing your opponent was going to probably use the same tactic again?" - This is by far the dumbest assumption I have ever heard in the last few months.

If you are as good at this game as you are at the calculus of probabilities (strictly speaking game theory), then wiping the floor with your face will be a breeze. Also, add me on steam and let's play, I have no interest in talking to you.

[OUT4BLOOD]

You see, it is always easy to criticize other people for not following your imaginary scenarios. As a matter of fact however, bow-cav armies devastate inf armies on the open field that are inferior in firepower. This was the very reason why bow cav was strictly regulated in all previous TW titles. But if you are really convinced that your theories are true and your decision making is superior to mine, we can practically prove it in a game. If not, then don't waste my time with your fantasizing.

Actually bow cav wasn't restricted in all other TW games

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DISKy5nPZqc

[Meataus]

You see, it is always easy to criticize other people for not following your imaginary scenarios. As a matter of fact however, bow-cav armies devastate inf armies on the open field that are inferior in firepower. This was the very reason why bow cav was strictly regulated in all previous TW titles. But if you are really convinced that your theories are true and your decision making is superior to mine, we can practically prove it in a game. If not, then don't waste my time with your fantasizing.

@Swoosh So:
This is what I would have agreed to. But my enemy didn't, and the admin was too incompetent to intervene properly and force such a game.

Half the fun of this game is building your army with enough rocks, scissors and papers that you can stop anything too crazy. If every game was rice fields with the same exact armies it would be a pretty boring tournament.

Even if this your game went to the 3rd game, rice fields still has forests, so we'd be in the same situation, with no clear rules on how to decide a winner when someone doesn't want to attack into a forest.

Bow cav aren't overpowered, even in great numbers. They're actually reducing their price on Monday.

[CanCritter]

should be a 4 unit limit to keep it fair and fun..as for the calv army woulda stayed in trees and mooned him..play your game..not theirs

[Gregoshi]

May I suggest we stay away from accusations of incompetence on the part of players or admins and stick to the issue.

Also, keep in mind this is one of the first (the first?) TWS2 tournaments so there are bound to be some rough spots along the way. There will be lessons learned for future tournaments. Lastly, everyone involved (players and admins) is in it for the fun and spirit of competition. You are playing for some nice prizes but nothing that will give you cause to quit your day job. So, strap on your armour, sharpen your sword, roll with any adversity and have a good time.

[Motep]

May I suggest we stay away from accusations of incompetence on the part of players or admins and stick to the issue.

Also, keep in mind this is one of the first (the first?) TWS2 tournaments so there are bound to be some rough spots along the way. There will be lessons learned for future tournaments. Lastly, everyone involved (players and admins) is in it for the fun and spirit of competition. You are playing for some nice prizes but nothing that will give you cause to quit your day job. So, strap on your armour, sharpen your sword, roll with any adversity and have a good time.

Good words to live by, I think. It makes a good learning experience, if nothing else, and the advice on this thread is worth at least trying against a buddy, to see if it works. Also, arrogance is not the key, here. I hope you are quickly humbled.

[AMP]

Well it's just like MM no restrictions and no attacker or defender, so if you played lots of MM games you should know before hand facing a build like that is possible. The best thing to do is try to think of a build good enough to have a chance to beat any build you come across.

The thing that is missing of course is sometimes in MM you get key buildings, which do help in my games sometimes in MM as people tend to sit back or I end up pushing someone off a key building and they run back into woods to hide.

It's best of 3, so you can push yourself to attack first game and 2nd game if your opponent plays the run away from you again deal I'd just pick a spot and park it if I couldn't play the tag your it game, since the first match I already did the aggressive attacking. If it's a 3rd match on rice fields I'd just go to the middle of the map and park it there and not try to hunt down someone camping in the back unwilling to move forward.

Sadly this game is more about builds unlike the old days and Odas did look abit weak to face what was infront of him. The worst thing you can do though of course is sit there letting yourself get shot up which I saw happen in the replay, you should always charge and keep charging while you can and use what cav you have to try and tie down some of his long enough so your foot can join the fight. Lots of long lines of foot in loose formation backed up by your missile units behind them.

You can't put blame on the admins when you knew the rules before hand and should have known the possibilities of facing such an army.

[Saspi]

What is the Tosa Cup position on using the red line?

[Oda]

@CanCritter:

I can't wait in the woods forever. My opponent was some desperate noob who would have waited his entire life just to get a win. I had him in the friend list from before, and he is always on on steam and plays some random games. The guy has no rl. He even tried to snipe my gen when I was afk.

@Gregoshi:

It was clear that issues like this would occur since they usually occur in MM. Furthermore I doubt anybody plays because of the prices; a shirt, a game you already own, and 50$ for some random game (I myself already own all games I would play). What is even more ridiculous is that Org, a fan forum, sponsors this tournament more than CA, who is owned by SEGA, a company that makes a turnover of more than a billion USD per year. I was here because I wanted to kick some ass of some high-ranking and highly-reputable players.

I think I already mentioned that an army that would counter mass cav, would be weak to rush armies. The only thing that "counters all" is a mass bow monk/matchlock spam and camping (as we saw in the Sabre games).

@AMP: Yes, I have played a lot of MM. But in MM people have the dignity to accept that they put the burden of the aggressor on themselves when they pick mass cav. There is no build good enough to beat any build you come across. Yep, the key buildings would have helped a lot, I agree with that. I myself never had problems with people camping in the woods on plain ground, they surrender their maneuverability and I usually win easily.

If you charge your cav against vetted bow cav, you will get picked to pieces, they will retreat, and if you chase too long after them, you will get overwhelmed by their superior meele cav. So charging bow cav when you are inferior in the meele cav department is only a way of getting yourself hit by arrows.