Re: Religion, moral and values.
The historical irony of humans coming up with a moral value and then give it power by claiming that it's coming from the gods is not lost on me.
Skullheadhq, I'm not sure if you're trolling or not, but please define your moral value from the Bible then. With quotes!
We are all aware that the senses can be deceived, the eyes fooled. But how can we be sure our senses are not being deceived at any particular time, or even all the time? Might I just be a brain in a tank somewhere, tricked all my life into believing in the events of this world by some insane computer? And does my life gain or lose meaning based on my reaction to such solipsism?
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Activity Recorded M.Y. 2302.22467
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Re: Religion, moral and values.
Is it possible to quote the entire law of Moses, prophets, Luke, Mark, John, Matthew and the epistles of the Apostle's in one post or should I do it in multiple.Originally Posted by Ironside
And even if morality doesn't come from 'the gods', it still wouldn't harm, except wicked and immoral people.
Do you think that more atheism and godlessness will increase morality?
Last edited by Skullheadhq; 05-10-2011 at 16:08.
"When the candles are out all women are fair."
-Plutarch, Coniugia Praecepta 46
Re: Religion, moral and values.
Thankfully I found at least some of them here http://www.freethoughtpedia.com/wiki/Bible_rules.
Are all of them still applying or have some became obsolete? If some are obsolete, which ones? And who decides that?
Last edited by Ironside; 05-10-2011 at 19:53.
We are all aware that the senses can be deceived, the eyes fooled. But how can we be sure our senses are not being deceived at any particular time, or even all the time? Might I just be a brain in a tank somewhere, tricked all my life into believing in the events of this world by some insane computer? And does my life gain or lose meaning based on my reaction to such solipsism?
Project PYRRHO, Specimen 46, Vat 7
Activity Recorded M.Y. 2302.22467
TERMINATION OF SPECIMEN ADVISED
Re: Religion, moral and values.
None are obsolete, but is it possible to do every single one of them always?
Last edited by Skullheadhq; 05-10-2011 at 16:15.
"When the candles are out all women are fair."
-Plutarch, Coniugia Praecepta 46
Re: Religion, moral and values.
Well, it is quite possible to break them always. I'm already condemned so it's not a problem.
- Deuteronomy 23:2:
"A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation."
You better hope that any of the 1024 couples that are your ancenstors didn't cheat.
Σ(2 + 2*2 ... 2^10)/2=1024
For a generous 2% cheating ratio (historically, it's been much higher), we got 7 people in the world that can enter into the congregation of the LORD, statistically speaking.
Last edited by Ironside; 05-10-2011 at 19:54.
We are all aware that the senses can be deceived, the eyes fooled. But how can we be sure our senses are not being deceived at any particular time, or even all the time? Might I just be a brain in a tank somewhere, tricked all my life into believing in the events of this world by some insane computer? And does my life gain or lose meaning based on my reaction to such solipsism?
Project PYRRHO, Specimen 46, Vat 7
Activity Recorded M.Y. 2302.22467
TERMINATION OF SPECIMEN ADVISED
Re: Religion, moral and values.
Well, the Ten Commandments most christians point to when claiming moral superiority, are filled with human rights abuses and other evil, and I consider those them the pinnacle of immorality.
Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban
Re: Religion, moral and values.
Some Mistakes Of Moses by Robert Green Ingersoll
They slew him with poison afaid to meet him with the steel
a gallant son of eireann was Owen Roe o'Neill.
Internet is a bad place for info Gaelic Cowboy
Re: Religion, moral and values.
You forgot to mention the ones that contradict each other.
Do you support the return of stoning as a punishment as well, Skullheadhq?
I like this one too:
In the Old Testament, God hates cripples during the time where the "modern medicine" was covering a wound with dung. No wonder he sent Jesus, he ran out of eligible followers.Whosoever he be of thy seed in their generations that hath any blemish, let him not approach to offer the bread of his God. For whatsoever man he be that hath a blemish, he shall not approach: a blind man, or a lame, or he that hath a flat nose, or any thing superfluous, Or a man that is brokenfooted, or brokenhanded, Or crookbackt, or a dwarf, or that hath a blemish in his eye, or be scurvy, or scabbed, or hath his stones broken; No man that hath a blemish of the seed of Aaron the priest shall come nigh to offer the offerings of the LORD made by fire: he hath a blemish; he shall not come nigh to offer the bread of his God.
Last edited by Beskar; 05-10-2011 at 16:16.
Days since the Apocalypse began
"We are living in space-age times but there's too many of us thinking with stone-age minds" | How to spot a Humanist
"Men of Quality do not fear Equality." | "Belief doesn't change facts. Facts, if you are reasonable, should change your beliefs."
Re: Religion, moral and values.
Jesus didn't, he sent away the adulturous women while saying they shouldn't do it again. But since when is this a theological debate?
Last edited by Skullheadhq; 05-10-2011 at 16:18.
"When the candles are out all women are fair."
-Plutarch, Coniugia Praecepta 46
Re: Religion, moral and values.
The creed which accepts as the foundation of morals, Utility, or the Greatest Happiness Principle, holds that actions are right in proportion as they tend to promote happiness, wrong as they tend to produce the reverse of happiness. By happiness is intended pleasure, and the absence of pain; by unhappiness, pain, and the privation of pleasure.
Right, thread over, I'll take my cheque.
Re: Religion, moral and values.
HEY GUYS, LET US **** EVERYONE AND BE MORAL! HAHAHA EVERYONE HAPPY EVERYONE MORAL!
I hope you're joking. John Stuart Mill and his sick ideology is what's destroying society.
Last edited by Skullheadhq; 05-10-2011 at 16:59.
"When the candles are out all women are fair."
-Plutarch, Coniugia Praecepta 46
Re: Religion, moral and values.
To quote Mill again,
When thus attacked, the Epicureans have always answered, that it is not they, but their accusers, who represent human nature in a degrading light; since the accusation supposes human beings to be capable of no pleasures except those of which swine are capable. If this supposition were true, the charge could not be gainsaid, but would then be no longer an imputation; for if the sources of pleasure were precisely the same to human beings and to swine, the rule of life which is good enough for the one would be good enough for the other. The comparison of the Epicurean life to that of beasts is felt as degrading, precisely because a beast's pleasures do not satisfy a human being's conceptions of happiness.
Alternatively,
In the golden rule of Jesus of Nazareth, we read the complete spirit of the ethics of utility.
I could do this all day. Making thoughtful, provocative and devastating backroom comments has never been easier.
ho ho hoSkullheadhq, I did not expect to meet someone like you on this side of the millennium.
Re: Religion, moral and values.
So you say atheists are altruistic Epicureans?
"When the candles are out all women are fair."
-Plutarch, Coniugia Praecepta 46
Re: Religion, moral and values.
My answer to that is a clear "YES!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban
Re: Religion, moral and values.
I believe alternatives such as Humanism will increase morality, yes.
Days since the Apocalypse began
"We are living in space-age times but there's too many of us thinking with stone-age minds" | How to spot a Humanist
"Men of Quality do not fear Equality." | "Belief doesn't change facts. Facts, if you are reasonable, should change your beliefs."
Re: Religion, moral and values.
The last 50 years has seen a drastic decline the number of religious people in western europe. In that timeframe, we have also seen:
-drastic economic growth among the general population
-women accepted as equals instead of lesser people
-pre-marital sex is now the norm and fully accepted
-gays are more accepted than ever before
-positions of power are no longer reserved for white, hetrosexual males
-most blasphemy laws and other such restrictions of free speech have finally been removed
-democracy is spread around the world
-universal rights and benefits like healthcare
-abortion is completely legal and accepted
-violence is no longer an accepted form of child-rearing
-neither is violence in marriage accepted
I could go on all day, but I believe this is enough for now.
Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban
Re: Religion, moral and values.
Doesn't sound so moral to me, quite the opposite, in fact.
Modern liberal '(human) rights' crybabyism is not the same as morality.
Then again, I was not thinking about Christianity specifically. Judaism, Islam, Hinduism and the likes also instill a somewhat good moral code into the minds and hearts of its believers, it's just that atheism spreads immorality.
Last edited by Skullheadhq; 05-10-2011 at 16:45.
"When the candles are out all women are fair."
-Plutarch, Coniugia Praecepta 46
Re: Religion, moral and values.
No, but for me, this is morality. To me, the opposite view is immorality.
I fell like doing a breakdown of the collection of abuses usually called the ten commandments(lutheran version):
1: I am the Lord your God. You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself an idol.
ORLY?
This is totalitarianism. A human is free to think as they please, and choose how they please. I can't make me an idol? Have a look at my freedom of expression, and go join Stalin, Daffy and all the other dictators who gain sexual pleasure from controlling the minds of their population.
2. Do not take the name of the Lord in vain.
I can and I will, freedom of speech is vital in any society. Can't handle that? Go hide in a corner.
3. Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy.
No. Just no. I will work when I get the chance, at any day. I can organize my personal life on my own, thankyouverymuch.
4. Honor your father and mother.
No, I will not honour my parents because they are my parents. I will honour them if they in turn honour me. If they don't, I won't. Honouring people solely based on blood and kinship is plain stupidity, and the basis of any racist.
5. You shall not kill/murder.
Well duuuuuuuuuuuh... I am perfectly capable of knowing that killing other people is bad, I don't see the need for anyone to tell me that. What makes this commandment bad, is that it is used to justify the list.
6. You shall not commit adultery.
Yes, I will. Pre-marital sex is good and healthy, plain and simple.
7. You shall not steal
Same as for number 5.
8. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
Again, same as for number 5.
9. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife.
Excuse me, but my neighbors wife is not his possession. She is not his to keep, if I want her and she wants me, it's right for us to be together.
10. You shall not covet anything that belongs to your neighbor.
Yes, I should want to own his possessions. This is the driving force of the capitalist economy, the desire to own more and more. This in turn has created extra-ordinary economic growth and is the reason why we have so good living conditions today. If I see a man living in a castle, I shouldn't be indifferent to it, I should desire to one day live in that casatle, which will motivate me to work hard, for the benefit of myself and society.
Last edited by HoreTore; 05-10-2011 at 17:02.
Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban
Re: Religion, moral and values.
So aethists doesn't know morals, because that's the job for old dudes (there's always old dudes for this) that lived for more than 1000 years ago? That or the first commandment is about the existance of more than one god...
That's why God invented Saturday. No, wait we came up with that one ourselves. Or the national day or any non-religious red day.3. Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy.
No. Just no. I will work when I get the chance, at any day. I can organize my personal life on my own, thankyouverymuch.
Thank you for destroying small shops by being egoistic
Indeed, lets reintroduce the death penalty for disobedient children.4. Honor your father and mother.
No, I will not honour my parents because they are my parents. I will honour them if they in turn honour me. If they don't, I won't. Honouring people solely based on blood and kinship is plain stupidity, and the basis of any racist.
This disrespect is what's destroying society.
- Leviticus 20:9:
For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.
How dare the children curse their parents when they're getting sexually abused and beaten.
We have condoms and basing a marriage on love and/or personal compatabillity instead of politics or a crush might not always be the best, but it's an improvement on average.6. You shall not commit adultery.
Yes, I will. Pre-marital sex is good and healthy, plain and simple.
Long live AIDS and immorality, huh?
It might actually be that gender biased. But I digress.9. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife.
Excuse me, but my neighbors wife is not his possession. She is not his to keep, if I want her and she wants me, it's right for us to be together.
Thanks for destoying families.
Since it takes two to cheat, it's a sign that not all is well inside that family. Sometimes, they're better off breaking up. It's not the nicest thing, since cheating is always a break of trust, but that's hardly something that should be criminalised, but handled by the parts involved (that involves breaking up, divorce, accepting it or trying to fix what's wrong).
We are all aware that the senses can be deceived, the eyes fooled. But how can we be sure our senses are not being deceived at any particular time, or even all the time? Might I just be a brain in a tank somewhere, tricked all my life into believing in the events of this world by some insane computer? And does my life gain or lose meaning based on my reaction to such solipsism?
Project PYRRHO, Specimen 46, Vat 7
Activity Recorded M.Y. 2302.22467
TERMINATION OF SPECIMEN ADVISED
Re: Religion, moral and values.
-pre-marital sex is now the norm and fully accepted
-gays are more accepted than ever before
-positions of power are no longer reserved for [...], hetrosexual males
-most blasphemy laws and other such restrictions of free speech have finally been removed
-abortion is completely legal and accepted
Are you actually saying that it is immoral for people other than heterosexual males to occupy positions of power? Care to share your reasoning for that?
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