Mass Effect 3 To Target A "Larger Market Opportunity"

[Graphic]

Why would I take out my anger on Sony or Microsoft when I don't play PS3 or 360 games, and my last financial interation with Microsoft was 3 years ago when I bought a copy of Vista?

I only play PC games, so where else am I going to "take out my anger"?

What you're saying is basically the video game equivalent of "how can you worry about unhealthy food in public schools when there are starving kids in Africa!?" and it's just a tad silly.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Why would I take out my anger on Sony or Microsoft when I don't play PS3 or 360 games, and my last financial interation with Microsoft was 3 years ago when I bought a copy of Vista?

I only play PC games, so where else am I going to "take out my anger"?

What you're saying is basically the video game equivalent of "how can you worry about unhealthy food in public schools when there are starving kids in Africa!?" and it's just a tad silly.

Except that isn't what I am saying at all. Listen carefully, I am not singling you out. I am merely annoyed at you because you are a good representation of the average gamer which frustrates me. I do not care about you. See, when I listed Sony and Microsoft, I listed "etc" which according to dictionary.com means, "and others; and so forth; and so on". These others include such PC money mongers like, EA or Activision for example.

I took you as an example of the general case of many gamers. Many gamers get pissed off about something. They then take it out on the wrong people or things or generally just engage in unproductive whinging. As a general example I took the first two companies that came to mind, Sony and Microsoft.

See you are part of something bigger, you should be happy. I applied your specific complaint "Omg, game is delayed and someone came out and said, everything is going to be better! That means Bioware has officially gone down the drain to mediocre land." to the grander theme of most gamers not utilizing their consumer power and rage properly.

So you see, your analogy of what I am saying doesn't really hold up. In fact it doesn't make sense at all. I am not saying there is a bigger problem, stop worrying about ME3, I am saying that the anger that has suddenly emerged towards Bioware for this suit coming out and running his mouth is unsubstantiated and only comes from the anger of previous Bioware mistakes (like that server crash that they took 3 days to inform people of, now that was something to be angry over). But gamers want to ***** even when there is no justification for it. Good developers such as the Bioware team making ME3 are lashed out as if they were Stanley Woo (I forget his exact position) or if they were the DA2 team, when according to info in front of me, they are not.

[Sarmatian]

Except that isn't what I am saying at all. Listen carefully, I am not singling you out. I am merely annoyed at you because you are a good representation of the average gamer which frustrates me. I do not care about you. See, when I listed Sony and Microsoft, I listed "etc" which according to dictionary.com means, "and others; and so forth; and so on". These others include such PC money mongers like, EA or Activision for example.

I took you as an example of the general case of many gamers. Many gamers get pissed off about something. They then take it out on the wrong people or things or generally just engage in unproductive whinging. As a general example I took the first two companies that came to mind, Sony and Microsoft.

See you are part of something bigger, you should be happy. I applied your specific complaint "Omg, game is delayed and someone came out and said, everything is going to be better! That means Bioware has officially gone down the drain to mediocre land." to the grander theme of most gamers not utilizing their consumer power and rage properly.

So you see, your analogy of what I am saying doesn't really hold up. In fact it doesn't make sense at all. I am not saying there is a bigger problem, stop worrying about ME3, I am saying that the anger that has suddenly emerged towards Bioware for this suit coming out and running his mouth is unsubstantiated and only comes from the anger of previous Bioware mistakes (like that server crash that they took 3 days to inform people of, now that was something to be angry over). But gamers want to ***** even when there is no justification for it. Good developers such as the Bioware team making ME3 are lashed out as if they were Stanley Woo (I forget his exact position) or if they were the DA2 team, when according to info in front of me, they are not.

So, you're saying that even though EA explicitly said that the game is delayed to get time to give it "more mass appeal", it doesn't really mean anything because you know the inner workings of EA and that just means they're going to give it more complexity? The last time we heard similar rhetoric of "mass appeal", "attracting COD crowd" etc... was when they were making DA2 and that turned out a disaster. People are naturally suspicious and yet according to you that's completely silly, like EA doesn't have a reputation of dumbing down games and ruining good studios.

And YOU get frustrated??? Really?

[a completely inoffensive name]

So, you're saying that even though EA explicitly said that the game is delayed to get time to give it "more mass appeal", it doesn't really mean anything because you know the inner workings of EA and that just means they're going to give it more complexity? The last time we heard similar rhetoric of "mass appeal", "attracting COD crowd" etc... was when they were making DA2 and that turned out a disaster. People are naturally suspicious and yet according to you that's completely silly, like EA doesn't have a reputation of dumbing down games and ruining good studios.

And YOU get frustrated??? Really?

Is no one reading what I said? The Bioware DA team is different from the team making the ME series. What happens to one, does not mean it will happen to the other. It very may well be that it does get dumbed down. But as I said, lets look at the facts before blowing this whole thing up over some comments a dude in a suit made, to spin the delay into a good light.

From what I have read they are adding complexity by bringing back weapon mods.

This isn't me knowing the inner workings of EA or Bioware, this is me reading the article I linked a few pages above. Read it, and then tell me what aspects listed show a huge trend towards Fable like simplification. If not, then I stand by my original statement, that this mass appeal=less complexity is simply something people are pulling out of their butts.

I don't recall the guy ever saying, "attracting COD crowd" in the article, which further leads me to believe that you are putting words in his mouth.

I just want to focus on this part of the article: "Speaking during an investor Q&A" and have people actually stop and think about what people will say in front of investors who have no idea what makes a good video game in order to gain their approval for the delay of what they view as a money maker.

The facts just don't seem to support the notion that ME3 will be Fable 3 but everyone seems to "know" that is what is going to happen because middle management said something in a biased setting. Bioware has stated flat out that they will not make multiplayer although I am sure EA would love to keep pumping out DLC for ME3 multiplayer maps.

All I am asking is that we maybe wait until we get some early reviews or some sneak peaks before we bash a game to hell and back? It became apparent that Brink was going to be super mediocre when the videos started coming out on youtube, and until I see videos of ME3 in action I personally am going to reserve judgement on Bioware since they have held up to my standards for 10 years not including this past year.

[Krusader]

@ACIN:
I agree with you that one should take a wait and see approach since it could very well be investor-talk to explain to investors why the delay should be done. However, the guy doing the talking John Ritichello is the CEO/Big Kahuna of EA and EA owns Bioware, so its no middle management guy saying this. Could very well be that Bioware were given instructions to simplify Mass Effect 3 even more, after the comments about more RPG elements and complexity being added were made, and that Bioware simply haven't said anything yet, or worst case will say when release nears. People might overreact yes, but with Dragon Age 2 (different team yes, but both teams answer to same management at Bioware HQ in Edmonton.) and experience with previous games, they might have reasons to do so.

Bioware is among the few companies who can be compared to Blizzard when it comes to game quality and success, as almost any game they have made have been a good game in one way or other. Hence when Dragon Age 2 got so much vitriol as it did, it might have been because people "couldn't believe" Bioware made a bad game. Add in that Bioware seem to have lost some customer goodwill with DLCs, Bazaar and some forum and interview comments as well.

[Graphic]

So you see, your analogy of what I am saying doesn't really hold up. In fact it doesn't make sense at all. I am not saying there is a bigger problem, stop worrying about ME3, I am saying that the anger that has suddenly emerged towards Bioware for this suit coming out and running his mouth is unsubstantiated and only comes from the anger of previous Bioware mistakes (like that server crash that they took 3 days to inform people of, now that was something to be angry over). But gamers want to ***** even when there is no justification for it. Good developers such as the Bioware team making ME3 are lashed out as if they were Stanley Woo (I forget his exact position) or if they were the DA2 team, when according to info in front of me, they are not.

No one's saying flat out that it's going to be garbage, but only that it doesn't look good given the fact that Dragon Age 2 already seemed to got hit with the "mass appeal" hammer and it royally F'd up a perfectly fine franchise. You say it "only comes from the anger of previous Bioware mistakes"...and? What's wrong with that? People base their expectations on patterns and things that happened in the past. Is your suggestion that we're not to have any expectations ever about anything?

You keep saying "is anyone reading my posts!?!?!?!" Well, go back and read mine and tell me where I said "Mass Effect 3 will definitely be garbage and I'm deciding right now to not buy it." You can't do that, because I never said that. I, and most others, only expressed trepidation.

As for the rest of the post...I'll try and say it nicely: please stop talking to me like I'm a child. I always considered The Org to be a haven on the internet where there was no (or little) flaming and trolling, and your posts are borderline. I'm getting a little pissed here because of your tone so try and act more civil before it gets out of hand. Thank you.

[gaelic cowboy]

@ ACIN I'm afraid I agree with the lads on this one, the majority of the comment including my own has not been half as damming of Bioware as your making out.

[a completely inoffensive name]

No one's saying flat out that it's going to be garbage, but only that it doesn't look good given the fact that Dragon Age 2 already seemed to got hit with the "mass appeal" hammer and it royally F'd up a perfectly fine franchise. You say it "only comes from the anger of previous Bioware mistakes"...and? What's wrong with that? People base their expectations on patterns and things that happened in the past. Is your suggestion that we're not to have any expectations ever about anything?

You keep saying "is anyone reading my posts!?!?!?!" Well, go back and read mine and tell me where I said "Mass Effect 3 will definitely be garbage and I'm deciding right now to not buy it." You can't do that, because I never said that. I, and most others, only expressed trepidation.

As for the rest of the post...I'll try and say it nicely: please stop talking to me like I'm a child. I always considered The Org to be a haven on the internet where there was no (or little) flaming and trolling, and your posts are borderline. I'm getting a little pissed here because of your tone so try and act more civil before it gets out of hand. Thank you.

Actually when it comes to video games...no I really don't think you can apply past experiences that well unless the company has at least a 5+ year record of being really good or being really bad.

The same people that made the incredibly great "Hitman" series also made Kane & Lynch...and then Kane & Lynch 2. Bioware has had about 15 years of great products, then all of sudden DA2 came out, and there was massive backlash. Now a different team in Bioware has a product coming out relatively soon, but everyone goes "DA2 all over again?" Maybe, but then again this is Bioware, so there is at least an equal probability that they will bounce right back and it will be another orgasmic, memorable game like KOTOR or ME1 or DA:O.

These are your words man.

When you see the term "mass appeal" used when referring to art, it never is.

I don't know how they could F up the Mass Effect franchise worse than they did to Dragon Age with Dragon Age 2, but somehow I think they'll find a way.

This is what happens when you get bought by EA. Look at what Command & Conquer eventually turned into.

Not much benefit of the doubt being given in the bolded statement. Seems like you had made your mind as soon as you finished reading the OP. That's the impression I got anyway. If that impression is wrong, then the whole thing is a big misunderstanding.

I'm sorry if I come across as treating you like a baby, but from my perception it felt like you were ignoring what I was saying and instead was trying to warp my argument. I say that gamers have misplaced anger and use it unwisely like the MW2 boycott and your reply was "I never did that MW2 boycott, this is what it looks like you are saying and that is silly." I said that a lot of gamers take out a lot of frustration on good companies/groups due to stupid policies (for example) by Sony and Microsoft etc...and your reply was, "Well I never deal with Sony or Microsoft so I don't know what your point is."

In my moment of frustration I felt like I had to be as clear as possible I wasn't targeting you but attempting to craft an argument about a trend in the gaming community I see in general. So I apologize.

[a completely inoffensive name]

@ACIN:
I agree with you that one should take a wait and see approach since it could very well be investor-talk to explain to investors why the delay should be done. However, the guy doing the talking John Ritichello is the CEO/Big Kahuna of EA and EA owns Bioware, so its no middle management guy saying this. Could very well be that Bioware were given instructions to simplify Mass Effect 3 even more, after the comments about more RPG elements and complexity being added were made, and that Bioware simply haven't said anything yet, or worst case will say when release nears. People might overreact yes, but with Dragon Age 2 (different team yes, but both teams answer to same management at Bioware HQ in Edmonton.) and experience with previous games, they might have reasons to do so.

Bioware is among the few companies who can be compared to Blizzard when it comes to game quality and success, as almost any game they have made have been a good game in one way or other. Hence when Dragon Age 2 got so much vitriol as it did, it might have been because people "couldn't believe" Bioware made a bad game. Add in that Bioware seem to have lost some customer goodwill with DLCs, Bazaar and some forum and interview comments as well.

Possibly yes, you could be very right.

However, statements by the big dudes don't necessarily translate into real action.
Bobby Kotick CEO of Activision-Blizzard seems to make it his mission to have people hate him by making remarks like he wants to suck the fun out of making video games.

Has Blizzard done terribly since 2009 when Kotick made that statement? Not really, still producing solid work at their usual Blizzard time scale for making games. They still take their time and SC2 didn't get the "mass appeal" factor to it. Guitar Hero didn't really change much in terms of "mass appeal" factor, it was over saturated in the market and the demand for it collapsed since no one wanted a new one every 12 months. There is a case about IW and the people who left it though.

Overall, again I really think the article from the OP is more of a "meh" inducing article than a doom and gloom foretelling kind of article.

I think I will shut up now. I have made my case and I have been a bit harsh on Graphic.

[Crazed Rabbit]

I'm not completely reassured by adding weapon mods - something that COD, Crysis, Bad company 2, etc, shooters have.

It could be a return to the ME1 system, perhaps better balanced, or just a similar version to modern warfare. I don't think it guarantees they're going to keep a complex and fun game and not remove complexity to satisfy people who don't want to think very hard.

This statement doesn't seal ME3's fate in either direction, but it's the first thing that made me hesitate about pre-ordering the game.

CR