This is The Best My Country Has To Offer

[Seamus Fermanagh]

What about Savo Island?

He might have excepted that because it antedates Pearl Harbor, though the second sentence seems to emphasize all time rather than pre-Pearl Harbor. Savo really was a debacle, wasn't it? And it is not as though the Java Sea hadn't happened. The USN was, or at least should have been, a LOT more respectful of both the IJN's night-fighting drill and the 615mm torps.

[PanzerJaeger]

Savo really was a debacle, wasn't it? And it is not as though the Java Sea hadn't happened. The USN was, or at least should have been, a LOT more respectful of both the IJN's night-fighting drill and the 615mm torps.

Indeed. Even after Force Z, even after Pearl Harbor, even after Java, and even after the Coral Sea, a false sense of superiority still permeated throughout the American Navy - no doubt based at least in part on institutional racism. Of course, the victory at Midway probably played a part as well.

I would argue that we still had a navy after Savo Island the the associated Guadalcanal battles. The Penobscot Expedition wiped out the northern navy and gave the Brits free reign on our coasts. If not for the cheese-loving French ...

Also, the Penobscot Expedition had financial repercussions that went on for some time. The debt incurred by the loss of all of those ships was staggering for the small economy of the newborn U.S.A. By the time of Guadalcanal, by contrast, we had a much bigger economy capable of absorbing much harder shocks.

I think that's a strong argument from a macro standpoint. Of course, had Mikawa pressed his advantage and destroyed the supply ships, he could have turned Savo Island into a catastrophe instead of the speed bump it turned out to be.

However, if we compare the actual battles - or lack thereof - I think Savo comes out on 'top' in terms of the greatest actual naval defeat suffered by the US Navy.* IIRC, the commodore in charge of the naval element of the Penobscot Expedition refused to engage the small British naval force guarding the besieged fort, and then routed immediately when the larger relief force arrived on the scene without firing a shot, so there wasn't actually much of a naval engagement at all.

On the other hand, Mikawa sailed straight down the slot with a smaller force and surprised, outfought, and routed the largely American force inflicting heavy casualties while taking few of his own.

I think the Penobscot Expedition is a better candidate for 'Greatest American Military Leadership Failure' rather than the greatest naval defeat.

Eeek, I appear to have gotten all Monastery in the Backroom. My bad.

In a thread like this, splitting hairs about naval battles seems a much more productive use of our time.


*I'm going to disqualify Pearl Harbor as a naval defeat in the classic sense as it was not achieved in open battle.