The kind of broken game that CA sell me for $50, Cav charge bug

[predaturd]

"My general with both inspire and banzai stats: attack: 33, defense: 14, charge: 43, amour: 7
vs
Vanilla yari cav stats: attack: attack: 5, defense 1, charge: 25, bonus vs cav: 15, amour: 4
Result: general lost 7, vanilla cav lost 2
Please, someone from CA explain to me how did that happens?"

Ok lets see, ari cavalry have spears so generals charge is nullified, that makes it 25+15+5 to attack during charge for the yari and 33 for the general. so 45 vs 33.
theres double the yari so thats essentially twice the attack power, that makes it 90vs33 33-1 (defence) 90-14*2 (defence)
now makes it 32vs62
you seriously still confused now? yari were doing nearly double the damage with all of them attacking at once while the general unit was all over the place.

[spicykorean]

"My general with both inspire and banzai stats: attack: 33, defense: 14, charge: 43, amour: 7
vs
Vanilla yari cav stats: attack: attack: 5, defense 1, charge: 25, bonus vs cav: 15, amour: 4
Result: general lost 7, vanilla cav lost 2
Please, someone from CA explain to me how did that happens?"

Ok lets see, ari cavalry have spears so generals charge is nullified, that makes it 25+15+5 to attack during charge for the yari and 33 for the general. so 45 vs 33.
theres double the yari so thats essentially twice the attack power, that makes it 90vs33 33-1 (defence) 90-14*2 (defence)
now makes it 32vs62
you seriously still confused now? yari were doing nearly double the damage with all of them attacking at once while the general unit was all over the place.

He said that it's not the best example, but the other examples can't be so easily picked out and dismissed.

[predaturd]

He said that it's not the best example, but the other examples can't be so easily picked out and dismissed.

2nd video, cavalry extra width, during charge a load of them run down the flanks then swirl back in and encircle him, strikes to the back and side tend to be more lethal, also has the side effect of removing people from possible casualties during the initial charge without making the charge weaker. Also the first unit half hit the enemy 2nd unit and that half lagged behind in the charge, making it a lot weaker.

[versionlangley]

@tomisama....hmm, you're right, staying true to the law of physics, an object acting on an other object observe the same amount of forces acting on it. However, unlike yari foot who can plant their spears onto the ground, yari cav is a non-rigid body and movable. Thus, according to the conservation of momentum, as a yari cav charge a stationa.......and suppose to say that it is a perfectly elastic collision.....

Dunno how it works m8 ...on a man to man fight, a yari foot have a better chance of avoiding the cav yari point (hence the naginata or the nagamaki makes more sense), but it difficult for a horseman avoid so. So i think on a horseman vs horseman fight, both have the same chance of inflicting a wound. However, the charge person has both the momentum to dismount his opponent as well as the ability to control the time at which his spear reach the target. In other words, he doesn't just point his spear out and run, but rather, timed the impact moment to perform a body-> arm thrust for max force.

@predaturd... are you from CA or can you provide some table/data proof of what you mentioned? Or you just make up these idea as you see fit?
General's charge value get cancel because the other is a yari cav? What kind of absurdity is that? Does a katana samurai charge get cancel when facing yari ashigaru or samurai as well?
On the second video, the extra cav of the wide spread run pass the thick rank one, where do you see them turn around and make a charge? The casualties are done before they turn around for the fight. If the 2nd cav of my opponent get snag onto my first cav, how come they don't cause any damage to my first cav? My 2nd cav is very close behind

Again m8, show me some data instead of making your own convenient theory
Would you mind explain the third video as well as PointMan video while you at it?

[Tomisama]

Just a thought born of the depth that we are getting into:

Replays would be a much better source to examine the animation mechanics to see if there are any answers there as to why we get the results we do.

I have already done a number of these studies to understand some of the unrealistic activities (read cheats) that matchlocks can be ordered to perform.

It is quite remarkable how much you can find by very close observation.

And repeated testing is a must, as the range variations possible can be quite large.

[versionlangley]

Here's a replay example

rice field, classic mode, 2 rank deep charge yari vs yari and GG vs yari. Out of 9 times, I loose every time

Note: there's one instance where i have to pull back my yari because my opponent didn't have enough time to give off a charge

[Tomisama]

Sorry, could not get your file to work. Maybe the compression had an affect? Try it without, and be sure the file is named with a dot replay.

While I had the game open this morning I tried around 16 quick battles in custom to test some possibilities of Yari Cavalry versus Great Guard, and same unit charging versus standing.

And yes I know that Custom and Classic are not necessarily the same. Although derived from the same specs, I believe some variations or glitches have crept in. But for the sake of what was “intended”, I think we can trust Custom testing.

First, I never got the Yari to beat the Great Guard any which way it was attempted. That does not mean that there is not a problem, just that was never intended in the design, so something else is wrong.

Second, you must come to terms with the reality that doing anything on foot is twice as easy as doing it on horseback, and working from a moving horse is about five to ten times harder than a standing one (shooting a bow is a worst case example).

Aiming a lance at a potentially movable target from a galloping horse is much harder than positioning a lance point from a stationary position (even sitting on a horse), following a target coming at you.

This is why charging “directly” into the standing lances of any unit, will probably always be a disaster. A full frontal charge is a bad and loosing tactic, and probably why the AI always opts for an oblique entry point, given the same situation.

Of course this has nothing to do (directly) with your Yari vs. GG both charging each other video above. We still need to investigate that one in detail.

I hope the Yari and Guard error is fixed soon, and I am still very interested in viewing your replay. Maybe send to tomisama@hotmail.com when you get a chance.

Thanks!