Midgardsaga III [Concluded]

[White_eyes:D]

How do you figure that?

It says in the OP, check Wikipedia or google "Petty Kingdoms of Norway"

[Romanic]

By the way why don't you tell everyone who you are Romanic?

I'd rather keep people guessing, if you don't have any objection.

[White_eyes:D]

Grrrr....My post didn't show and is lost, but it's in the OP "Kingdoms of the West". Check Wikipedia or Google "Petty Kingdoms of Norway".

[Reenk Roink]

Grrrr....My post didn't show and is lost, but it's in the OP "Kingdoms of the West". Check Wikipedia or Google "Petty Kingdoms of Norway".

Nothing in the OP about the number, this is Wikipedia's list:

2 Kingdom of Fjordane
3 Kingdom of Grenland
4 Kingdom of Gudbrandsdal
5 Kingdom of Hadeland
6 Kingdom of Hardanger
7 Kingdom of Hedmark
8 Kingdom of Hordaland
9 Kingdom of Hålogaland
10 Kingdom of Land
11 Kingdom of Namdalen
12 Kingdom of Nordmøre
13 Kingdom of Oppland
14 Kingdom of Orkdalen
15 Kingdom of Ranrike
16 Kingdom of Raumarike
17 Kingdom of Ringerike
18 Kingdom of Rogaland
19 Kingdom of Romsdal
20 Kingdom of Sogn
21 Kingdom of Solør
22 Kingdom of Sunnmøre
23 Kingdom of Telemark
24 Kingdom of Toten
25 Kingdom of Trøndelag
26 Kingdom of Vestfold
27 Kingdom of Vestmar
28 Kingdom of Vingulmark
29 Kingdom of Viken
30 Kingdom of Voss

You do know that a prerequisite for membership in the Clinton Hankerchiefs is having basic counting skills?

[Romanic]

Grrrr....My post didn't show and is lost, but it's in the OP "Kingdoms of the West". Check Wikipedia or Google "Petty Kingdoms of Norway".

This page from Wikipedia is listing 30 kingdoms. Where do you get that there's only five?

[Reenk Roink]

Wiki has told me that this game is based on a true story and the usurper king wins.

[White_eyes:D]

Are you guys serious? "Kings of the West Coast", Norway is not THAT BIG....

[Renata]

Somebody knew who b_ray was beyond all doubt, else why use two Jotun on him.

I wasn't killed by the Jotun. This doesn't contradict the implications of the first comment, but may have implications as to who did.

I'm never going to be able to shake my impression of Romanic as scummy after what he pulled on me today.

Given b_ray's last PM to me, there's an obvious question he needs to ask Sigurd.

More in the morning.

[Reenk Roink]

Somebody knew who b_ray was beyond all doubt, else why use two Jotun on him.

I wasn't killed by the Jotun. This doesn't contradict the implications of the first comment, but may have implications as to who did.

I'm never going to be able to shake my impression of Romanic as scummy after what he pulled on me today.

Given b_ray's last PM to me, there's an obvious question he needs to ask Sigurd.

More in the morning.

Thanks Renata,

Checkmate Romanic

[Romanic]

Thanks Renata,

Checkmate Romanic

Yeah, well Renata is wrong. If I was a Jotun, I would not have pressured her like I did, since half the players are dead and no Jotun were found. My PIS case on her was good, and I gave her the opportunity to defend herself, or face a public case. If it's her interpretation that I am scummy, very well then, I'll answer the charges, lynch me for it. But I think she should reconsider, after going over the fact that she's been killed. Being pissed off doesn't help you analyze stuff.

[White_eyes:D]

It's also suspicious, how Pizzaguy never shared where he was King of. Only that he had a champion. He joked that he was King of all Norway...very usurper-like no?

There is Sunnmøre, Rogaland, Fjordane, Hålogaland, Nordmore and Hovgod as the mediators. The King of Nordmore, Sunnmore and Rogalnd are dead. There might be one more but somebody else look in the write-ups my head hurts..

[Romanic]

Are you guys serious? "Kings of the West Coast", Norway is not THAT BIG....

I can find six kingdoms mentioned in the writeups:


Fjordane
Hålogaland
Nordmøre
Rogaland
Romsdal
Sunnmore

[White_eyes:D]

I can find six kingdoms mentioned in the writeups:


Fjordane
Hålogaland
Nordmøre
Rogaland
Romsdal
Sunnmore

What about Hovgod?

[Reenk Roink]

I can find six kingdoms mentioned in the writeups:


Fjordane
Hålogaland
Nordmøre
Rogaland
Romsdal
Sunnmore

Hordaland too, but we're not even sure there is a King of that. Hålogaland is of Harald and we're not sure he's there either. I'd say it's more likely that Hordaland is included. 6 sounds right.

I'm going to unvote: Atpg for now, until I hear from glyphz and himself. We still have Andres for killing, and while our ascensions plans have been stalled for 2 rounds, hopefully they get going again soon.

[Renata]

I would like to know who knew about b_ray or could have drawn a very certain correct conclusion based on what they did know. I'd like to see that discussed in excruciating detail. As far as I know you (romanic) were not in that group, but that's only as far as I know.

I understand your defense against my impression of you entirely, save your characterization of your case as good. It was not good. What it was was certain townie-vote bait. Townies don't even see PIS cases usually, for all that they love to vote for them. But scum do, because they're the ones who know when a townie has gotten it right. You made a mistake pushing me that way, if you are town.

b_ray's orders from last night might have an impact on who could have killed him, or they might not; I don't know exactly. For the moment ATPG looks as good a choice for Jotun as any.

Town isn't going to win this game, but at least the end looks to be entertaining.

[Renata]

And white_eyes is way too happy right now to be a townie.

[TinCow]

In that game, TinCow was Jotun, and had a Champion cover role, with a balancing rule that his team could never ever kill his "king" Ichigo. I guess that this could be present in this game again, although Sigurd might have picked King cover role to trick us, but there's certainly a mason cover role somewhere, or six pairs of masons could be hard to overcome.

To clarify, our only restriction was that we couldn't night kill Ichigo. We were allowed to lynch him, we just never figured out a way to do that so he was the last one left alive.

No, TinCow made a God cover role (Tyr) for one of his partners (LittleGrizzly). He, himself, was Jotun, with a Champion cover role, and his fake identity was (I'm assuming this) known to King Ichigo.

Correct, Ichigo's role PM told him I was his Champion. Thus, my cover role had a mason aspect to it and right from the start I had a townie ready to back up my alibi. Given the similarities in structure that we've seen between this game and Midgard 2, it's likely that the think kind of setup is present here as well.

[TinCow]

I would like to know who knew about b_ray or could have drawn a very certain correct conclusion based on what they did know.

I knew, he protected me and told me so. I'm pretty sure that Arnvid Torarinsson knew as well, though I have no idea who that is. B_Ray also told me that he was trying to expand his 'network', which implies other people. I assumed it was ATPG's group, but that was just a guess and I have no actual evidence of it.

[Reenk Roink]

And white_eyes is way too happy right now to be a townie.

White eyes will be the last Jotun to die due to his help.

Atpg has the fact that classical investigated him as a bit of an alibi, though Atpg claims that himself. Vote: Romanic Quote your role PM. Because you'll die either in the lynch or at night.

[White_eyes:D]

And white_eyes is way too happy right now to be a townie.

You guys messed up not me. Why should I be upset because town looks doomed?

If I was a Pro-town, I would be crying my eyes out at how bad you all dropped the ball.

Edit: Reenk, please don't make me use that line from "commando".

[Romanic]

I would like to know who knew about b_ray or could have drawn a very certain correct conclusion based on what they did know. I'd like to see that discussed in excruciating detail. As far as I know you (romanic) were not in that group, but that's only as far as I know.

Well, you're right about me not knowing B_Ray's identity, and I sure would like to hear who knew about it.

I understand your defense against my impression of you entirely, save your characterization of your case as good. It was not good. What it was was certain townie-vote bait. Townies don't even see PIS cases usually, for all that they love to vote for them. But scum do, because they're the ones who know when a townie has gotten it right. You made a mistake pushing me that way, if you are town.

That's your opinion, but as I've said to you in chat:
1) Your assumption that the kill order was matching the dead player list, was odd to me because Sigurd isn't clearly showing who is who, and I figured there was a reason behind it, rather than it being obvious, hence a PIS accusation at you. (Renata's #411 post, for those who aren't following)
2) You were not as active as you use to be when you're Town. This has been a scumtell for you in some games - I can dig some games where you were "inactive" (or less active, in your case), and you were scum.
3) No real reasons to believe otherwise (that you were not scum).
4) And an aggravating factor against you about this game (you know what I'm talking about).

So, "if I was Town", the pressure made a lot of sense to me, call it a mistake if you want, but it's not in my opinion. Your claim should have helped us, since the alternative was me making a public case on you, which could have been far worse than just me knowing your identity. I gave you a choice, and you decided to reveal your identity. Now of course it looks bad since you are dead, but all I can say is that I have nothing to do with your death. Others knew about your identity so meh, it must be one of them, or perhaps a shot in the dark, though 2 kings and 1 Aesir dying implies otherwise.

[TinCow]

Has anyone seen anything that would make them think that the Law Speaker is a role in this game? I've assumed since day 1 that the Law Speaker was a pro-town role since he appears in the OP right after me. However, I haven't seen anyone say anything that would indicate he actually exists as a player role. If this game mimics the Midgard 2 setup, there's got to be a counterpart to the Midgard 2 Christians (of which there were three) which are not present here. I assumed it was me, the guy who's trying to kill me, and the Law Speaker.

[Reenk Roink]

Renata's death is the only one iffy when it comes to Atpg I think. I mean, why are you all surprised B_ray got owned? One of his first posts was making explicit how important to the town he was. Believer's death doesn't seem to be connected to Atpg, despite his FoS.

A lot is in Atpg's favor, and while there are still some things we want to know (EVERYONE he has been talking to, his claimed kingdom), I have a gut feeling that Atpg is a king, and the last thing we want to do is follow in the Aesir's footsteps and kill our important roles. This is EXACTLY why we needed new gods. Ascension is salvation.

Seriously Aesir, you guys were huge liabilities in this game.

The good news is DE and especially Tratorix should be left alone now.

Now, I don't like Romanic, but I'm also wondering about Khazaar. Does he look strong to you guys? I know GH had a low score but still...

[Reenk Roink]

autolycus, robbiecon, Romanic, fluffy, Khaazar are people we should be looking at

edit: Khaazar looks clean from the writeup, and Romanic is a trooper

[Reenk Roink]

unvote, vote: autolycus

[Earthling]

Any townies that are listening at all, ought to lynch Roink. That's the best we'll get out of today, but at least it's not hurting the town. You don't need to reveal a single thing about yourselves or put yourselves in more danger, just quote my post here and lynch him for his annoying little ascension cult.

There are more kingdoms than I thought so no clue how many actual Kings there are. One could be a cover role if there are like 6 Kings, that's certainly true. And anyone who has information on the Law Speaker or the Usurper and more characters like that should speak up to help the town.

As for actual townie analysis of the votes and writeups, ATPG and Khazaar both look very townie, considering they didn't try to save themselves from a possible lynch and voted for a cult recruit instead. (It's funny that Renata, B_Ray, and Death is Yonder lynched khaan there though). Roink/Andres/WE are not to be overlooked though, get rid of some of Loki & crew and we'll either take them down with us or force them into something against the Jotun.

[Reenk Roink]

Do you not understand that the cult and Loki and his group are two different entities?

[Earthling]

Whatever the case the true Norsemen in this town should man up and kill you. It'll force the rest of your lackeys to actually work against the Jotun and/or Loki, else the town will take you out with them (because the town needs to get some of the other sides fighting against each other, and no such thing will work against the Jotun, so they have to take you out).

One other observation on the countries now, as all of the men and even the cover roles of Gods/Jotun presumably are aligned with some country, even if they didn't know it, there would be some symmetry if there were seven countries and 5 people per country for; that would mean our usurper King is very likely present though.

[Reenk Roink]

Why are you so intent on killing me?

[Earthling]

Because you appear to be the single largest threat to the town with the most obviously scummy behavior going back days. You should have died a while ago really, if folks like ATPG are town it's their own terrible play for overlooking it and giving you a free pass. Since nobody else seems like a guarantee of getting a non-town lynch right now, except Andres who could be bluffing and we'd rather get you first, that's the call.

Sometimes it just helps to have the perspective of an attentive, regular townie whenever possible, just from everyone's actions and votes here without worrying about other machinations, and you/Loki seem like the best threat to take on right now.