Predestination, John Calvin

[Centurion1]

You are still not answering my question. Let me rephrase/restate it:

We know God wants all to be saved. He chooses who gets salvation. Why does he not choose everyone? Go.

What speaks against the possibility that Christ atoned for all sins of all mankind and lifted the burden of total depravity from us, making it possible for us to choose and then he left us the choice?




No argument from me here





I thought he pretty much was...



Now here I look away for a moment and out of a thread that argued about predestination, which can be argued well inside of christian doctrine you made a case that desintegrates the very fabrics of the christian faith.

There is no salvation apart from Christ. Now, it's your right to believe otherwise but then you are not a christian. It's that simple.
Your good deeds will get you nowhere. Deeds/Works are a part of the faith, a very important part tbh, but they do not save you.



I couldn't care less what Karl Rahner states or "the church" believes. What does the bible state? What did Jesus say?



Well, you do realize that you have just called a good part of the New Testament protagonists heretics, don't you? There was "organised religion" from the earliest days of christianity. If you want to disagree please specify what you call organised religion.

I think that bible literalists are fools. I think you do not really know what you are talking to in regards to the bible since I could go through it and find plenty of quotes to agree with me as could people who wanted to do half a dozen wicked things. I think your understanding of the most loving gentlest man the earth has ever known and a God himself are warped. Telling me you couldn't care less what what my Church and solves nothing besides demonstrating your intolerance.


You can follow your foolish hateful faith or whatever twisted form of literalism you think is right but I laugh at your ignorance; but to put my faith on the table and say that I am unchristian is uncalled for. Here is your truth. Faith alone will not earn you jack **** in the Fathers paradise.

A literalist understanding of the Bible is incorrect, God inspired the writers he did not but pen to paper himself. The human writers were still fallible and limited by the knowledge of their time. Tell me how old do you think earth is? 4000 years or so? Not to mention calling the New Testament individuals "protagonists" is dumb. They are not characters in a book. And early Christianity was not an organized religion it was simply a disliked sub sect of Judaism.

Predestination doesn't fit inside of the Christian faith. To believe in predestination is to believe against free will. Because we have no impact on where we will go when we die there is a lack of free will. A concept which is anathema to Christianity.

Finally, I will say one further time. YOU GO LOOK UP INCLUSIVISM; YOU GO FIND A DEFINITION AND TELL ME WHAT IT MEANS. UNTIL THEN YOU ARE SIMPLY IGNORANT IN THE MATTER SINCE EVERYTHING YOU SAY YOU OBVIOUSLY DID NOT LOOK INTO AT ALL.

I'll just be over here laughing until you do.