Midgardsaga III [Concluded]

[thefluffyone93]

I demand that several gods challenge me.

I demand you challenge me to a trolling contest!

[Reenk Roink]

Why haven't I done this yet?

Challenge: n0rg3 Roink

[Askthepizzaguy]

Why haven't I done this yet?

Challenge: n0rg3 Roink

This has worked before, btw. It was awesome then, it shall be awesome now.

[TinCow]

Hard to take that seriously, when you killed a battle-hardened King.

Take what seriously? That you're creepy or that you're trying to touch me?

[Tratorix]

Challenge: Chaotix

[Renata]

Shoulda joined my cult when I offered. You know the reason I didn't ask you in the first place Renata? Because of the Council of Villains snub. Yeah, I still hold the grudge.

*tries to even remember Council of Villains, fails*

I guess I'm just not that into you.

[Earthling]

Somehow, this is all Takhisis's fault.

fixed

[White_eyes:D]

Take what seriously? That you're creepy or that you're trying to touch me?

That you would even think I would try to do so. I mean, you are our "Helen of Troy".
Enough wars have started for this :Insert degrading comment here:

[TinCow]

Typical man. Insulting a woman he has no possible chance of wooing, simply because he's too ugly, he smells, he's got no job, he lives with his mother, and he's got a small... axe.

[autolycus]

Well Roink, if you want to be challenged that badly I suppose I can oblige you.
Challenge n0rg3 roink

[White_eyes:D]

Typical man. Who I admire greatly and would run away with him if giving the chance. I don't think daddy would like that though, he hates it when I do that.

[Romanic]

Challenge ATPG

At least I got the 6th challenge. Let me die like a King, not being lynched by my friends.

[Romanic]

Here's my case against Romanic. And I admit, it's not great, and it's mostly circumstantial.

1) He claimed King or Champion to me very early on in the game. He's also been known to myself and Believer since Khaan's death as Khaan's claimed king.
2) He was interested to know who was a god, asked me about B_Ray, he wanted to know who Renata was, asked me about her role. He continually tried to get me to claim who the other folks were. Said I could trust him since he's a King.
3) He has known for a long time that I'm not a King. That's one reason I think why I'm not dead, but I think it was fairly obvious to anyone paying attention that I'm not a King. Still you have to hope for an error.
4) He pressed hard for roles last night in particular, right before this all went down.

My King's identity should be very safe. I won't reveal if I've avoided talking about him, accused him, or whatever. It just could be anyone here and I don't believe I've revealed it to anyone, that I can recall. if any, I think maybe Classical.... not sure.

Since claiming King I asked TLD to assume the role of "my champion".

Basically, Romanic is at the center of the network, and it was obvious to anyone watching that no one in my network wanted him dead. He should have been killed off by now. But he wasn't supposed to be the center of the network. He was supposed to shut his mouth and keep his head down so I could protect him better.

Instead he connects himself obviously to me on numerous occasions and even today, basically admitted he was the one I was talking about. He does not seem to care if he's revealed or not.

Finally, the attitude he displayed in our chat. It had a mocking tone, an aggressive, careless tone. It felt like it was from someone who had already won the game.

This case is full of lies. I never asked about B_Ray, I wasn't at the "center" of the network (in fact I was having an ongoing discussion with ATPG only). I wasn't mocking or aggressive at all with him. The only time I've been aggresive was when I made that case against Renata, because I thought she was Scum, and I wanted her to prove me wrong.

Since Renata, B_Ray and Believer are not forbidden to speak about private information, they can at least confirm that I never really had important chats with them (save Renata, when I made that case on her). I never fished to know who Believer and B_Ray were, not when I talked with them.

With Believer - He was mostly talking and I was mostly not talking, busy catching up with the thread. He asked me to reveal my role, and I never did, and again, I never asked who he was.

With Renata - We barely spoke, until I made that case on her. She's just pissed at me because I forced a claim out of her, but she had the choice to face my case, or reveal. Too bad Renata, you can't make a difference between being pissed and someone being actually scummy. Look at your case, how aggressive you can be when you believe someone is Scum - this is just what I did to you, and you even acknowledged this in our chat when you said something along the lines that my suspicions on you proved that I was at least trying. You're stuck on the fact that you died after claiming to me, but ATPG knew about that. It figures why you are dead.

With B_Ray - I never even talked with him.

With anyone else - I never talked with them.

At the center of the netwrork - lol at you ATPG. If this is a genuine case, we're going have to talk about how you became a bad mafia player over time but strangely I doubt you are genuine here. This case looks a lot like what you did to me in A Bridge Zhou Far.

Here's my role PM:

Romanic


Fridtjof Kongsbane Thorsteinsson.

You are the ruler of Fjordane and a former Varangian guard. Trained and schooled in the skills of war makes you a formidable foe in Holmgang.

You have been summoned to this ting by the Kings of the West Coast to agree to a course of action against Harald Hårfagre and his plans to conquer the whole of Norway.

You know from previous meeting such as these, that the Jotun will try to use such gatherings to hasten their purpose in bringing chaos to Midgard, and as such, you should be very careful of revealing who you really are. It would be advisable to let everyone think you are someone else.

Your survival is important. The Jotun, if there are any, are out to get you and your retinue. The Jotun will win if they kill you and the other Kings.

You have a champion in your retinue. He is the only one who knows your true role.
If you are challenged to a Holmgang he can take your place. If the Holmgang you have been challenged to is the one which will be fought I will send you a pm with the question of you wanting a champion in your place. Remember, the Jotun will be looking for you and will discover that someone took your place.

Your champion is: issaikhaan

Holmgang ability: = 7

ATPG also fails to mention why I claimed to him - to save my champion because he and Renata were about to move their vote on khaan, to save classical and Tratorix on Day 2. I claimed around that post:

vote: B_Ray

Based on his last vote. Can't do better than this, gotta run to work. :(

And I did so because I was leaving for work within 15 minutes and khaan was about to be bandwagoned. Picked ATPG over Renata to claim, for the overall feeling I had, although now I realized it could have been a mistake to reveal to ATPG, or reveal at all, since my compromising myself isn't worth the life of my champion.

On Day 3, I came back from work, to find that khaan was tally leader, and I tried to save him, but my vote was late, 2 minutes after Sigurd closed the Day.

I say, vote: Khazaar

I'm late sorry.

Anyway, I probably could make a better case on ATPG, than barely defending myself, as it is, but I don't see much point, this Town being utterly destroyed. My only hope is that my challenge goes through, in which case I have 27.6% chance to prove that ATPG is a Jotun, by removing 6 lifes from him.

Thanks Reenk, for sending my a PM about how I'm gonna get killed soon.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Didn't I already claim Jotun?

Oh wait, I was joking, so I suppose I should respond to this.

Your role fishing last night was extremely scummy and I should have called you on it then. That was bad play. You saw how uncomfortable I was with what you were doing, I figured you'd pull what Reenk just pulled and laugh all the way to the afterlife.

The reason you have suspicion on you is your own fault. You should not have done the things you did.

If I have you confused with Renata on the B_Ray thing then I apologize for that, but you were definitely fishing for the others and knew enough to deduce all the information above. You are full of it when you say you weren't at the center of the network, because you were. And not because I made you such a person.

And you were careless with your role. Your own posts revealed you were the one I was talking about. So honestly, you deserve a roll eyes here.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I would also like to say, in my defense, that of all the mistakes made in this game, all the security breaches, the king that lasted the longest in secrecy was the one I was protecting, and was only revealed on threat of death by the gods themselves as a calculated gamble between two bad decisions: Say nothing and watch him die in a holmgang instead of at least eating one murder, or gamble that Reenk would shut up. I don't even regret my choice.

So for all you network nay-sayers, let me put it to you like this:

Khaan would have been lynched sooner. Kings would have been lynched. B_Ray would have been lynched. I guarded my information and used it only when death was the only alternative.

It's not the network that's at fault, it's just bad townie play. The network won't get any credit for any positives, and the faults weren't even the network itself, if it had been played properly.

[Romanic]

Feel free to paste our chatlogs where I was rolefishing for any role except for Renata's, after I was considering to make a case on her for PIS.

I never fished for anyone else. Any chatlog you can provide will be fake, or you're gonna come up with another explanation such as "If I have you confused with Renata on the B_Ray thing then I apologize for that".

As for

The reason you have suspicion on you is your own fault. You should not have done the things you did.

Your interpretation. I explained why I did it, and you're not alien to pressuring actions such as these, you've done plenty yourself in different mafia games, you should understand. Also I don't care much about the blame game. Blame me as much as you want, but you're the one who revealed me, and you're the one with a case on me.

In this game, I've done mu share of mistakes, but pressuring Renata, wasn't one in my opinion. I pushed hard until she claimed, and proved her identity with the Heimdall PM. If I was Jotun, I'd probably be satisfied with your answer:

'She's in the God/King/Champion category"

Which would have been enough for a Jotun to stop. I didn't stop because I'm Town, and this answer was not satisfying against someone I was accusing of PIS.

And you were careless with your role. Your own posts revealed you were the one I was talking about. So honestly, you deserve a roll eyes here.

I don't think so. The post that revealed me was this one:

No, actually.

My suspect is the guy who was role fishing for Renata's role last night, and the one who spoke with Believer for most of the game, and laughed at me when I told him why I felt out of all the kings and champions, he was the right suspect.

Because my interaction with Renata on the previous night was discussed plenty before you made that post. This post revealed me to anyone following the discussion. Posts I've made after that, replying to you, were joke-ish, since I was burned anyway.

If you are Town, you probably skimmed the thread and weren't aware how precise your description was, but it was very clear that I was the King you were referring to. Some players went "Oh it's Diamondeye", but really, they were either faking, or not following the game themselves.

[Askthepizzaguy]

7/19/2011 5:06:14 PM Romanichine Did you make sure the information would not be lost if you die?
7/19/2011 5:06:55 PM Ask thepizzaguy Do I trust anyone enough to have it?
7/19/2011 5:06:58 PM Ask thepizzaguy No.
7/19/2011 5:07:06 PM Romanichine Heh
7/19/2011 5:07:08 PM Ask thepizzaguy Remember, knowledge of who the kings are is game-losing
7/19/2011 5:07:13 PM Romanichine you can trust me
7/19/2011 5:07:14 PM Ask thepizzaguy it's really stupid that I even have it
7/19/2011 5:07:26 PM Ask thepizzaguy What if Loki could turn my alignment or something?
7/19/2011 5:07:29 PM Ask thepizzaguy Game over
7/19/2011 5:07:35 PM Romanichine Right

I'm not going to massively quote our conversations. You asked me to reveal all roles to you a few days ago. That means you were role-fishing for EVERY role in the game.

I said no. You went fishing for those roles yourself anyway.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I knew who every king was but Renata for a long time, and they survived; I knew who every champion was, every god.

It wasn't until Romanic knew these answers that they all mysteriously died.

I must be framing him!

[Romanic]

I'm not going to massively quote our conversations. You asked me to reveal all roles to you a few days ago. That means you were role-fishing for EVERY role in the game.

I said no. You went fishing for those roles yourself anyway.

I did say that, but you knew I was telling the truth about being a King, after khaan died. "You can trust me" was an offer to keep your knowledge alive, should you die. Technically I didn't ask you to tell me, I told you that you could tell me if you wanted to. My worry was about the knowledge being lost, that's all. I would have been satisfied if you said that someone else had that knowledge.

I'm not sure this can be called rolefishing. Surely you can tell the difference.

[Romanic]

I knew who every king was but Renata for a long time, and they survived; I knew who every champion was, every god.

It wasn't until Romanic knew these answers that they all mysteriously died.

I must be framing him!

I never knew who was B_Ray or Believer. Don't push it.

[Romanic]

I said no. You went fishing for those roles yourself anyway.

Bah, anyway this is another lie. I never went fishing for any role, except Renata, after having a PIS case on her.

Any further talk with you is unnecessary, sir Pizza. You can't be genuine to accuse me of "fishing for these roles myself", as you have no proof of this, plus Believer, B_Ray and anyone else (but Renata) can confirm that I never approached them to know their role.

Goodbye.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I did say that, but you knew I was telling the truth about being a King, after khaan died.

You agreed with me (near the end) that a Jotun was hiding as a champion or King. Why would I buy that you couldn't possibly be a Jotun just because your assigned partner got lynched?

"You can trust me" was an offer to keep your knowledge alive, should you die. Technically I didn't ask you to tell me, I told you that you could tell me if you wanted to.

There's not a real massive difference between asking for all role information and saying that I can tell it to you. It reveals your desire to know what I know, and it is prompting me to infodump.

You cannot hand wave that away. If you're innocent, you should be thankful that I did wave it off. That combined with your Renata fishing is what made alarms go off.

My worry was about the knowledge being lost, that's all. I would have been satisfied if you said that someone else had that knowledge.

You agreed with me that such knowledge was absolutely idiotic for anyone to have because it was game-losing. I explained that even if I knew for sure you were a townie and couldn't be converted, that giving you such info invites mistakes and reveals through PIS.

It was bad enough that I had it at all. I trusted myself with it to an extent because I kept refusing to share info even with claimed gods and people who had been scanned.

I considered telling Kage some of it, but he died along with the guy who scanned him.

I'm not sure this can be called rolefishing. Surely you can tell the difference.

If it's not fishing, it's showing up with a rod, bait, boat, and getting on the water, and leaving the fishing pole near the water and then acting surprised when you catch a fish.

And I agree this is pointless. Other than the ascension of mortals to godhood, this game is over.

[Sigurd]

Registered challenges:

1. White_eyes:D vs. TinCow
2. Askthepizzaguy vs. Andres
3. Tratorix vs. Chaotix
4. Autolycus vs. Reenk Roink
5. Romanic vs. ATPG

[Askthepizzaguy]

Reenk also challenged himself.

[Romanic]

ATPG, I said goodbye, it means, goodbye, our discussion is done.

To everyone else, here's why ATPG is Scum:

Challenge: Andres

Why would he challenge Andres aka Loki?

First, you'll agree that ATPG must consider that Andres is either full of it when claiming Loki, or that he's truthful. Also, ATPG is either Jotun, or a Chamopion as he claims. This gives us four possibilities to understand ATPG's motivation.


1) ATPG is a Champion and believes Andres is telling the truth about being Loki.

Why would he challenge a God and be sure to lose? This will only result in a townie dying, and for what? Nothing. Andres beating ATPG will prove that he's a god, but not if he's evil or good. This option is nonsense.

2) ATPG is Town and believes that Andres is full of it.

If Andres is lying, then he's either human or Jotun. If he's Jotun, the Holmgang result will look similar to him being a Goid so challenging him, and dying won't help the Town.

If Andres is human, ATPG will prove it, or not, depending on the result, but since humans are Town, I fail to see how this will help the Town.

3) ATPG is Jotun, and believe Andres is Loki.

He challenged him, hoping to kill him. Since Jotuns have similar Holmgang values than gods, it makes plenty of sense for one to challenge Loki.

4) ATPG is Jotun, and believes Andres is lying.

He will kill Andres, good riddance, one less, however it may, or may not reveal him, depending on the result.


So there it is: The only motivation ATPG can have to challenge Andres is a Jotun motivation.

He's Jotun. Maybe I can prove it moire, if my challenge goes through.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I'll tell you why I challenged Andres.

Because it's FUN. No strategy required.

[Romanic]

Given ATPG acts like he's found a gold mine, a Jotun masquerading as a King, and a chance to turn this game around , I will not believe he would suicide by attacking Andres, a claimed god, "because it's fun".

[Askthepizzaguy]

Given ATPG acts like he's found a gold mine, a Jotun masquerading as a King, and a chance to turn this game around , I will not believe he would suicide by attacking Andres, a claimed god, "because it's fun".

Would attacking a Jotun really go any better? I can't beat those either.

Going down and proving Andres really is who he says he is accomplishes removing suspect ATPG and verifies the claim of someone who has had zero pressure all game.

But yeah, my primary motivation for this GAME is fun.

[Romanic]

And if it was so much "fun", why did he wait until Day 4 to challenge someone?

Yup. Jotuns were afraid to challenge early.

Why is he picking Andres and not someone else?

Yup. He's Jotun, and there's hardly a better target than a claimed god.

[Askthepizzaguy]

And if it was so much "fun", why did he wait until Day 4 to challenge someone?

Yup. Jotuns were afraid to challenge early.

Why is he picking Andres and not someone else?

Yup. He's Jotun, and there's hardly a better target than a claimed god.

You're right, I'm totally a Jotun. And once I hold Loki's head in my hands, I'm going to throw it at you.