This is why we separate church and state

[ICantSpellDawg]

The Catholic Church is great. They made a huge mistake with how they had handled the preservation of their "reputation". In hindsight, none of those decisions went so well for our reputation. I'm a Catholic, people who hushed up about these abuses should be ashamed of themselves and if they aided any felons should be in jail. but I'm a fan of the church, and most of you proddies are just looking for digs at an otherwise great church. Enda Kenny was right to say what he said. The church is in need of perpetual counter-reformations. Changes from within the universal church, rather than abandoning it and engaging in pagan protestant devil worship.

I'm not entirely sure who in their right mind put Italians in charge of anything, but I digress..

[Lemur]

I'm a fan of the church, and most of you proddies are just looking for digs at an otherwise great church.

Reminds me of a quote from The Bad Popes, a book I read ages ago. I've lost the book somehow, but there was a wonderful quote from a 16th century theologian, responding to the rampant corruption, cronyism, murders a whoring going on in Vatican City. All of this proved that the Papacy was a direct expression of God's will, wrote the man, because any mortal institution would have collapsed under the weight of so much sin.

[Adrian II]

Communism is great. They made a huge mistake with how they had handled the preservation of its "reputation". In hindsight, none of those decisions went so well for our reputation. I'm a Communist, people who hushed up about these abuses should be ashamed of themselves and if they aided any felons should be in jail. But I'm a fan of Communism. I'm not entirely sure who in their right mind put Stalin in charge, but I digress..

Fixed it for ya.

AII

[Louis VI the Fat]

I'm not entirely sure who in their right mind put Italians in charge of anything, but I digress..

Actually, the Vatican put a German in charge of handling abuse cases. This hardliner did such a good job of protecting the church against the tortured children, they elected him pope.

That sort of thing explains the unprecedented harsh language of the Irish taoiseach, who in one single adress used more, and harsher, terminology than I have used in all my posts at the .org.

[Furunculus]

you furriners get yourselves into all kinds of pickles, and thus justify all manner of desperate measures to prevent crisis "x" ever happening again.

fair enough, but we will continue to cope with monarchies and established church's quite successfully, albeit with a smugly understated arrogance. ;)

[Louis VI the Fat]

you furriners get yourselves into all kinds of pickles, and thus justify all manner of desperate measures to prevent crisis "x" ever happening again.

fair enough, but we will continue to cope with monarchies and established church's quite successfully, albeit with a smugly understated arrogance. ;)

Ain't that the truth. Once again, the world is forced to admit to the superiority of Pola...Britain, where nothing ever goes wrong and which is immune to the ills that plague the rest of the world.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Child abuse has gone unchecked in the Church of England for decades amid a cover up by bishops, secret papers have revealed.

Information that could have prevented abuse has been "lost or damaged", concerns about individuals have been ignored and allegations have not been recorded. It means that the Church has no idea how many paedophiles are in its midst.

Lawyers warned last night that the Church faces a crisis as catastrophic as the one that engulfed the Roman Catholic Church and cost it millions of pounds in damages.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...r-decades.html

Shhh.....don't let the British nationalists find out....

To which one could add, the Catholic Church had free reign in Ireland owing to its singular stranglehold on Irish society. This itself was the result of the sordid dealings of the big island in the small island next door. A civil, political Irish society with better means to defend itself from Rome has never been able to develop, has always been supressed by Britain.
Nothing to be smug about for Britain here, rather another one to add to the list of ills Britain has brought to its neighbour.

[Slyspy]

That's right, it's all our fault. The white man's burden!

[Louis VI the Fat]

That's right, it's all our fault. The white man's burden!

No it's not. It's just not something to be smug about, violently destabilising a smaller country only to smugly rub in you are so much more stable.


Even the British queen realises there is a history here. Not all of it bad, but with many things one wishes had been done differently, or not at all.


The story is: the Catholic Church preserved Irish culture in colonial times, became its centre. The Church gained a very dominant, favourable position in Irish life as a result, both psychologically and politically and socially. As a result, the Church has been able to operate with virtual impunity. Its absolute power corrupted. Hence the depth of the depravity of the Church's dealings with Irish children. The colonial repression of Irish civil and political life led to Irish social, psychological impotence towards Rome, which is a direct cause of the torture of Irish children.
This is not to say the Englishman needs to be ridden with guilt for all eternity, nor that Ireland should point to London for all of its ills. In fact, I think many of Ireland's erstwhile problems have been the result of too much history, too much looking backward. It does mean though that English smugness about some social ills in Ireland is unwarranted, as much as a perpetrator should not be too smug about his being unafflicted by the psychological problems of his victim.
What's more, what we are witnessing here, is the very emancipation of Ireland from the Church. England already controls its church. Ireland is now moving towards that too. That is pretty much the very topic of this thread, the establishment of Irish political dominance over the Church.

[Vladimir]

Louis is giving me fond memories of Imperial Russia.

Is state dominance of the church what's important or is it subjecting clergy to state authority? Controlling the church increases the power of the state. Subjecting its members to the rule of law is different.*

It's all about people.

Yes, I'm using the minuscule "c" intentionally.

[Banquo's Ghost]

The story is: the Catholic Church preserved Irish culture in colonial times, became its centre. The Church gained a very dominant, favourable position in Irish life as a result, both psychologically and politically and socially. As a result, the Church has been able to operate with virtual impunity. Its absolute power corrupted. Hence the depth of the depravity of the Church's dealings with Irish children. The colonial repression of Irish civil and political life led to Irish social, psychological impotence towards Rome, which is a direct cause of the torture of Irish children.
This is not to say the Englishman needs to be ridden with guilt for all eternity, nor that Ireland should point to London for all of its ills. In fact, I think many of Ireland's erstwhile problems have been the result of too much history, too much looking backward. It does mean though that English smugness about some social ills in Ireland is unwarranted, as much as a perpetrator should not be too smug about his being unafflicted by the psychological problems of his victim.
What's more, what we are witnessing here, is the very emancipation of Ireland from the Church. England already controls its church. Ireland is now moving towards that too. That is pretty much the very topic of this thread, the establishment of Irish political dominance over the Church.

That it should take a Frenchman to cut to the chase.

[gaelic cowboy]

you furriners get yourselves into all kinds of pickles, and thus justify all manner of desperate measures to prevent crisis "x" ever happening again.

fair enough, but we will continue to cope with monarchies and established church's quite successfully, albeit with a smugly understated arrogance. ;)

I guess that thread on the News of the World has nothing to do with unhealthy governmental connections, lest we think it is new Gordan was doing it back in the Sudan in the 19th century when he decided to drag the UK in to kill the natives.