why did the west commit to multiculturalism?

[Fragony]

No. And it's going down these days as well. You're a rebel without a clue, Fragony.

AII

You could take into consideration that nobody goes to the police anymore as you are very lucky if they can be bothered. Doesn't mean crime is down, the evil stepmother just doesn't like it exists, she wants to bake a cake and stuff

[Kagemusha]

It's an easy way out that people complained about blacks 25 years ago. What is true now was true then, crime rised drastically, no? With muslims it is true as well. And it will also be true with eastern europeans. Multiculture is a flawed concept that will never be proven right. Things are fine in our multi-ethnic society however, without the patronising of decency-salesmen we do just fine.

That is the evil stepmother, multiculturelalism. The multi-ethnic society has problems, but the evil stepmother only cares about what the neighbours think. She's a fundamentalist

So in the end you only have beef with your political adversaries, not the blacks nor the muslims?

[Fragony]

So in the end you only have beef with your political adversaries, not the blacks nor the muslims?

Have nothing against them, why would I, yes my only problem is the multiculturelaral left

[Kagemusha]

Ok. Sorry i keep asking questions.I am just trying to figure out this whole multiculturalism she bang from both point of views.

[Fragony]

Ok. Sorry i keep asking questions.I am just trying to figure out this whole multiculturalism she bang from both point of views.

Just a thought, maybe you should have reflected on that eatlier. How did yoy expect this not to happen. Not in my worst nightmares did I expect anything like this, but are you really that surprised? If you aren't, I am.

[Kagemusha]

Just a thought, maybe you should have reflected on that eatlier. How did yoy expect this not to happen. Not in my worst nightmares did I expect anything like this, but are you really that surprised? If you aren't, I am.

I am not surprised one bit that left and right disagree on everything. I am just trying to understand the motivations of both sides.To me what happened in Norway was not an result of long lasting political trend, but just one character flawed psycho decided to push his agenda with some led. Those kind of things happen time to time and like i said cant be prevented.

[Fragony]

I am not surprised one bit that left and right disagree on everything. I am just trying to understand the motivations of both sides.To me what happened in Norway was not an result of long lasting political trend, but just one character flawed psycho decided to push his agenda with some led. Those kind of things happen time to time and like i said cant be prevented.

Still a little bit of reflection doesn't hurt. This guy was an obvious right-wing nut at I'm low in other ways to put it. No need to make it look any better or to try to understand it,because it doesn't suit me, it is what it is and it's the most vicious thing I ever heard of. Can't be prevented sure, true that of course but this is all so incredibley sickening.

[Centurion1]

So you're telling us that being objectified as a nation of breasts isn't a problem?

Eastern Europeans already get a rough time in Britain, but then so do the French.

It's all about the "Other" and has nothing to do with skin colour. I think you are imposing your local American prejudices onto Europe.

Strike refuses to admit that white Europeans can be discriminated against just as harshly as brown people. It is his shtick to bemoan the sufferings of the "brown people"

[Strike For The South]

So you're telling us that being objectified as a nation of breasts isn't a problem?

Eastern Europeans already get a rough time in Britain, but then so do the French.

It's all about the "Other" and has nothing to do with skin colour. I think you are imposing your local American prejudices onto Europe.

I was unaware xenophobia was a uniueqly American trait. Coincidentally deflecting the arguement is the same thing the local Americans do.

Strike refuses to admit that white Europeans can be discriminated against just as harshly as brown people. It is his shtick to bemoan the sufferings of the "brown people"

This is a falsehood and you miss the issue, the concept of "white" has changed everytime the "whites" were about to be outnumbred. White Europeans can be discriminated against, but that is not the issue here. Reverse racism in the western world is kind of like the war on Xmas, A few isolated incidents does not a war make

[Fragony]

'White Europeans can be discriminated against, but that is not the issue here'

Why is that, it are hate crimes

[Kagemusha]

Still a little bit of reflection doesn't hurt. This guy was an obvious right-wing nut at I'm low in other ways to put it. No need to make it look any better or to try to understand it,because it doesn't suit me, it is what it is and it's the most vicious thing I ever heard of. Can't be prevented sure, true that of course but this is all so incredibley sickening.

So i should be shocked?What happened last year in Tuusula Finland can you recall?

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I was unaware xenophobia was a uniueqly American trait. Coincidentally deflecting the arguement is the same thing the local Americans do.

You are obsessed with "brown people", if I'm prejudiced against your notional "brown" people it is no more than against Scots or Welsh, or especially the French.

There are certain things I don't like, I don't like the current fashion for Islamic women to cover their faces, I find it mildy offensive and off putting. However, I feel exactly the same about booty shorts where I can see the colour of the girl's thong.

This is a falsehood and you miss the issue, the concept of "white" has changed everytime the "whites" were about to be outnumbred. White Europeans can be discriminated against, but that is not the issue here. Reverse racism in the western world is kind of like the war on Xmas, A few isolated incidents does not a war make

This is not true in Europe, in Europe Spaniards, Portugese and Greeks have always been white. In America you have the concept of "Latin", which isn't something we have in Europe, we just have Northern Europeans and Mediteranians, and the Northerners include the French, who are "Latin".

You are trying to impose an American racial prejudice on Europe and it doesn't work. It's not that we don't have a history of Racism, but it is a very different history. We never had, for example, slaves in Europe, only in the Colonies, and we never had legal segregation, Blacks, Indians and others had exactly the same rites under English law as whites and I'm assuming this was the same elsewhere.

[Kagemusha]

You are obsessed with "brown people", if I'm prejudiced against your notional "brown" people it is no more than against Scots or Welsh, or especially the French.

There are certain things I don't like, I don't like the current fashion for Islamic women to cover their faces, I find it mildy offensive and off putting. However, I feel exactly the same about booty shorts where I can see the colour of the girl's thong.



This is not true in Europe, in Europe Spaniards, Portugese and Greeks have always been white. In America you have the concept of "Latin", which isn't something we have in Europe, we just have Northern Europeans and Mediteranians, and the Northerners include the French, who are "Latin".

You are trying to impose an American racial prejudice on Europe and it doesn't work. It's not that we don't have a history of Racism, but it is a very different history. We never had, for example, slaves in Europe, only in the Colonies, and we never had legal segregation, Blacks, Indians and others had exactly the same rites under English law as whites and I'm assuming this was the same elsewhere.

Very good post.World depends on the eye of the beholder.

[Fragony]

So i should be shocked?What happened last year in Tuusula Finland can you recall?

Yes that was rather stupid of me, I didn't realise how bad things were at the time

[Kagemusha]

Yes that was rather stupid of me, I didn't realise how bad things were at the time

[HoreTore]

Strike refuses to admit that white Europeans can be discriminated against just as harshly as brown people. It is his shtick to bemoan the sufferings of the "brown people"

Liverpool is capable of winning a match now and then, but that does not in any way make them champions.

[Papewaio]

What year did slavery cease in Europe?

Not including non-lawful events like sex trade which is still happening. Just which century it ceased.

[Centurion1]

What year did slavery cease in Europe?

Not including non-lawful events like sex trade which is still happening. Just which century it ceased.

What country did you want. If you weren't aware Europe is comprised of quite a few nations....

[Fragony]

What year did slavery cease in Europe?

Not including non-lawful events like sex trade which is still happening. Just which century it ceased.

There has never been any slavery in Europe

[Centurion1]

There has never been any slavery in Europe

That would be wrong.

[Fragony]

That would be wrong.

No, not unlesss you add 19th century Russia to Europe, enslaved by is a different matter. Up to 1920 then at least, Belgian Congo

[Subotan]

There has never been any slavery in Europe

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_medieval_Europe

Slavery in early medieval Europe was relatively common. It was widespread at the end of antiquity... Slavery declined in the Middle Ages in most parts of Europe as serfdom slowly rose, but it never completely disappeared.

K.O.!

[Centurion1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_medieval_Europe



K.O.!

Then let us heap unto that everything from the fall of the Roman Empire and before............. I am pretty sure Europa is still Europe, neh?

Double KO

[Kagemusha]

I bet slavery ended about the same time as European tribes turned into a christianity. So starting from "Romans" at 4th century and ending to Vikings at 12th century and Finnic tribes on 13th century.Europe was converted and mass slavery abolished. A new form of slavery aka plantasion slavery was developed in 15th century and abolished at 19th century.

[Fragony]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_medieval_Europe



K.O.!

If you want it to be, 19th century serfdom in Russia was basically the last of what is close to slavery in Europe. Poor working conditions, all times. But not real slavery, where someone is your property by law

[Centurion1]

I bet slavery ended about the same time as European tribes turned into a christianity. So starting from "Romans" at 4th century and ending to Vikings at 12th century and Finnic tribes on 13th century.Europe was converted and mass slavery abolished. A new form of slavery aka plantasion slavery was developed in 15th century and abolished at 19th century.

Um not exactly.

Serfdom and feudalism just replaced it. It was cheaper and more productive than slavery.

EDIT: Fragony is a perfect example of the ability of an internet denizen simply not admitting when they are wrong. The presence of facts mean nothing.

[Ironside]

What year did slavery cease in Europe?

Not including non-lawful events like sex trade which is still happening. Just which century it ceased.

Depends on how you define slavery. Forbidding it? Mostly during the 1800:s. Having own slaves inside the country outside colony slave trade? Forbidden much, much earlier in most cases.

Forbidding thralldom and serfs? Depends on the country.

Roughly, slaves were common before 1100 but started to disappear rapidly during the 1100s to be replaced by serfs in most cases. Christianity was a big driving force in forbidding it.

Serfdom lasted very different times though, Sweden forbid it in the 1300s (well serfdom never appeared here and thraldom is like a mix of slavery and serfdom, but it was formally forbidden 1343), while most of the continent it lasted to the 1700s and even longer in Russia.
Europeans involved in slave trade has always been active though, the plague came to the Islamic world through a Geonoan slave trader boat for example.

[Fragony]

Um not exactly.

Serfdom and feudalism just replaced it. It was cheaper and more productive than slavery.

EDIT: Fragony is a perfect example of the ability of an internet denizen simply not admitting when they are wrong. The presence of facts mean nothing.

Slavery is a class system of being directly owned by another person, if you can show me what facts I shouldn't be ignorant about please do. Even in serfdom the landlord didn't own the worker, in theory they were free to leave when they pleased.

[Adrian II]

Personal serfdom was virtual slavery. In his drive to break with feudalism Napoleon abolished it in most of Europe except Russia and Austria. The Austrian Empire abolished it in 1848, the Russian Empire in 1861. The Brits maintained serf tenure in various forms until 1922, but serf tenure wasn't personal serfdom.

AII

[Louis VI the Fat]

Slavery ended when the French troops arrived.

It was re-instated where the forces of reaction prevailed, from Russian serfdom to Anglo capitalism. (Rather ten hours picking cotton in the sun than fourteen hours weaving it in a cold and damp Manchester spinnery!)