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  1. #1
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    Default Re: Obama allows states to get waivers from No Child Left Behind

    Quote Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name View Post
    Link: http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=14257218

    It is about time. What a massive failure of a policy. Competition does not make more students successful or make for better students, it gives incentives to schools to lower standards and it turns knowledge into digestible but forgettable facts. Those that succeed are those that actually give a crap, there is no use catering to those that just want to sit there, do no homework and pass with D's and C's.
    You essentially summed up the argument for proponents of school funding being tied to property taxes.

    but yes. No child left behind was a flawed piece of legislature with nothing but the best interests. I wish it would just be gotten rid of entirely.

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    Default Re: Obama allows states to get waivers from No Child Left Behind

    Quote Originally Posted by Centurion1 View Post
    You essentially summed up the argument for proponents of school funding being tied to property taxes.
    Perhaps, but that isn't my stance. I think funding shouldn't be tied to a fluctuating tax like property taxes. Make it a flat tax on each person living in the district. The larger the district, the larger the school generally is, so it all works out. Also make the amount of tax decided on the local level. I don't care for all this state shifting of money from high performing areas to low performing areas. Just feeds the bureaucracy that eats up the majority of the education budget anyway.


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    Default Re: Obama allows states to get waivers from No Child Left Behind

    Quote Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name View Post
    Perhaps, but that isn't my stance. I think funding shouldn't be tied to a fluctuating tax like property taxes. Make it a flat tax on each person living in the district. The larger the district, the larger the school generally is, so it all works out. Also make the amount of tax decided on the local level. I don't care for all this state shifting of money from high performing areas to low performing areas. Just feeds the bureaucracy that eats up the majority of the education budget anyway.
    I agree for the most part (you know we share similar views on education) but the depressing part of it is that even if funding were fair and schools weren't overcrowded or any of those fixable issues, education would still have alot of students in low performing areas who just don't care. That's why I believe the future is in magnet and charter schools (and maybe one day in the future even boarding style schools of that nature for promising students) because the naive and hopeless goal of erasing poverty through education in one swipe is a dumb idea to cling to. Erase poverty bit by bit and realize that you can never truly erase it.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Obama allows states to get waivers from No Child Left Behind

    Quote Originally Posted by Centurion1 View Post
    I agree for the most part (you know we share similar views on education) but the depressing part of it is that even if funding were fair and schools weren't overcrowded or any of those fixable issues, education would still have alot of students in low performing areas who just don't care. That's why I believe the future is in magnet and charter schools (and maybe one day in the future even boarding style schools of that nature for promising students) because the naive and hopeless goal of erasing poverty through education in one swipe is a dumb idea to cling to. Erase poverty bit by bit and realize that you can never truly erase it.
    Yes, definitely 100% agree. Get those kids vouchers of their own, and allow private schools to take in those whose parents care about their children's education. Provided that the private schools adhere to the same standards that the public schools adhere to (which are hopefully high, depending on the state).

    When you give the students a choice of schools, those that have parents that care and/or are involved (and thus students that try at life) will naturally separate from those that do not care, usually because their parents think of school as babysitting for 6.5 hours while they work.

    EDIT: Let's have competition between schools not between students. That is how we get smarter citizens.


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    Default Re: Obama allows states to get waivers from No Child Left Behind

    Quote Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name View Post
    Yes, definitely 100% agree. Get those kids vouchers of their own, and allow private schools to take in those whose parents care about their children's education. Provided that the private schools adhere to the same standards that the public schools adhere to (which are hopefully high, depending on the state).

    When you give the students a choice of schools, those that have parents that care and/or are involved (and thus students that try at life) will naturally separate from those that do not care, usually because their parents think of school as babysitting for 6.5 hours while they work.

    EDIT: Let's have competition between schools not between students. That is how we get smarter citizens.
    Magnet and Charter schools are government run but your idea with vouchers works well also. Though it does create issues with religion because the majority of private schools are religious. This sin't necessarily an issue because catholic high schools especially are pretty well respected for education but could create some issues if vouchers alone were used.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Obama allows states to get waivers from No Child Left Behind

    Quote Originally Posted by Centurion1 View Post
    Magnet and Charter schools are government run but your idea with vouchers works well also.
    Yeah, I forgot to clarify, I want the vouchers along with the magnet and charter schools. I want nearly everything that is the reform toolbox to be implemented at this point, with the exception of merit pay, which is ironically anything but.

    Though it does create issues with religion because the majority of private schools are religious. This sin't necessarily an issue because catholic high schools especially are pretty well respected for education but could create some issues if vouchers alone were used.
    I am a bit iffy about Constitutional law, but I thought Lemon v Kurtzman already gave the OK on giving vouchers/money to private religious schools as long as the government's purpose was secular in nature (lemon test applies here).


    EDIT: Nevermind, vouchers were specifically clarified in Zelman v Simmons-Harris I guess. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zelman_v._Simmons-Harris
    Last edited by a completely inoffensive name; 08-09-2011 at 09:22.


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    Default Re: Obama allows states to get waivers from No Child Left Behind

    Quote Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name View Post
    Yeah, I forgot to clarify, I want the vouchers along with the magnet and charter schools. I want nearly everything that is the reform toolbox to be implemented at this point, with the exception of merit pay, which is ironically anything but.


    I am a bit iffy about Constitutional law, but I thought Lemon v Kurtzman already gave the OK on giving vouchers/money to private religious schools as long as the government's purpose was secular in nature (lemon test applies here).


    EDIT: Nevermind, vouchers were specifically clarified in Zelman v Simmons-Harris I guess. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zelman_v._Simmons-Harris
    No it's fine and a lot of kids who weren't catholic went to my local catholic high school because it is superior to the public schools around the area but you know people would find a way to **** and moan which would eventually create bureaucratic waste and red tape.

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