Civil War in Libya

[Banquo's Ghost]

Get off our oil addiction. Its a simple choice increase solar, tidal, wind and for base load nuclear and then use EVs rather then subsidising dictators. We should not be using food for petrol substitutes... maybe for machine lubrication and pharmaceutical substitution.

It's very hard to know why we aren't doing this with all vigour. It would also create a lot of new jobs and industry at home. Just a big effort towards energy efficiency would make a huge difference.

Help the youth in these countries get skills to get jobs. It will either diffuse the timebomb/get them ready for a oil independent economy or give them the skill set to fight for democracy themselves without leaving a bitter oily residue in their mouths about the west.

Much more difficult. This is just another form of economic imperialism. Any failure immediately becomes our fault. No, let them sort out their own employment problems - by all means be a trading partner.

you know what is guaranteed to eventually work. buy their oil and otherwise ignore them no matter what they are doing

Quite a bizarre position. How do you ignore them when they turn the oil off - or even down? Our oil dependent economies are already in a deeply fragile state and we have been begging the Saudis on our knees for the last couple of years to keep the taps on full. How do you ignore someone who has you by the danglies?

[Adrian II]

This is just another form of economic imperialism. Any failure immediately becomes our fault. No, let them sort out their own employment problems - by all means be a trading partner.

Any western employment scheme for Arabs would be disastrous, not because we would be wrongfully blamed for failure, but because it would be a failure and we would be to blame. Western companies and bureaucracies have a horrible track-record in the Arab world already and the possibilities for fraud in such a scheme would be enormous, comparable to those of, say, the carbon emission trade or the niche for western contractors in warzones.

I mean, just look at our bankers these days. You think they wouldn't find a way to funnel those job scheme millions to the Bahama's before you can say 'job'?

AII

[Banquo's Ghost]

Any western employment scheme for Arabs would be disastrous, not because we would be wrongfully blamed for failure, but because it would be a failure and we would be to blame. Western companies and bureaucracies have a horrible track-record in the Arab world already and the possibilities for fraud in such a scheme would be enormous, comparable to those of, say, the carbon emission trade or the niche for western contractors in warzones.

I mean, just look at our bankers these days. You think they wouldn't find a way to funnel those job scheme millions to the Bahama's before you can say 'job'?

AII

Yes, you phrased the sentiment better than I, but just so.

[Papewaio]

I didn't say give them jobs. I said give them skills to get jobs. Nuance gentleman , nuance.

For example Ron Bruder and his Education For Employment

I think that counts as a viable proof of concept.

[gaelic cowboy]

It's very hard to know why we aren't doing this with all vigour. It would also create a lot of new jobs and industry at home. Just a big effort towards energy efficiency would make a huge difference.

It's because were spoiled Banquo.

I don't know if many people on the org really really really know just how wonderful a product petroleum is.

Basically it is a gift that we will take a long time to get back once we have used over 50% of it.

Much more difficult. This is just another form of economic imperialism. Any failure immediately becomes our fault. No, let them sort out their own employment problems - by all means be a trading partner.

There are masses of unemployed graduates in the Maghreb and Mid East they will be fine. I don't doubt a little bit more freedom will go a long way to sorting there problems out (eventually).

Quite a bizarre position. How do you ignore them when they turn the oil off - or even down? Our oil dependent economies are already in a deeply fragile state and we have been begging the Saudis on our knees for the last couple of years to keep the taps on full. How do you ignore someone who has you by the danglies?

hmm how do you ignore someone who has you by the unmentionables

Two answers here

1 You don't ignore them and hope they let go.
2 you do ignore them but your eyes will water

[a completely inoffensive name]

It's because were spoiled Banquo.

I don't know if many people on the org really really really know just how wonderful a product petroleum is.

Petroleum is our life. Petroleum derived plastics cover all our electronics and make up all of our childrens toys, petroleum derived fertilizers feed our entire country, petroleum gets us from place to place. It is the western lifestyle.

[Ironside]

Petroleum is our life. Petroleum derived plastics cover all our electronics and make up all of our childrens toys, petroleum derived fertilizers feed our entire country, petroleum gets us from place to place. It is the western lifestyle.

With a suffiecent alternate energy source, you can create enough petroleum to use for plastics etc. The problem is that's quite energy intence, so you'll need a big energy source.

[a completely inoffensive name]

With a suffiecent alternate energy source, you can create enough petroleum to use for plastics etc. The problem is that's quite energy intence, so you'll need a big energy source.

Only energy source that fits the bill is fusion and there are no guarantees from ITER...

[Fragony]

Geez only 50.000 dead estimated, I feel so proud about my country having a hand in 'the liberation of the Lybians'.

[Major Robert Dump]

Maybe with a friendly regime giving us good prices on oil the cost of Vaseline will go down

[rory_20_uk]

Geez only 50.000 dead estimated, I feel so proud about my country having a hand in 'the liberation of the Lybians'.

It ain't over. The only thing that unified the opposition was getting Gadaffi out. Now, who gets what?

[Viking]

Geez only 50.000 dead estimated, I feel so proud about my country having a hand in 'the liberation of the Lybians'.

What about the liberation from the Nazis.

[Noncommunist]

Geez only 50.000 dead estimated, I feel so proud about my country having a hand in 'the liberation of the Lybians'.

Where are you getting the 50,000 number? The last I read it was at was about 13,000 or so.