I didn't leave my favorite game series, my favorite game series left me.

[Drunk Clown]

Empire Earth sucks.

[CrossLOPER]

Imperial city, and elven tower and walls with human houses built into and around them. Vivec was pretty boring a bunch of trapezoidal towers. And I've never found but 1 or two Daedric shrines in Morrowind.

I don't know. I just don't think that an empty tower surrounded by townhouses guarded by dudes in rusty suits does not compare to a massive complex guarded by fanatical xenophobes with ornate armor (WHO ACTUALLY ATTACK YOU IF YOU WEAR IT) with a floating space rock converted into a government office (destined to doom the city) and a god. Whatever. As for the temples, there were tons of shrines, temples, and ancient Dunmer keeps. And they had stuff in them other than HDR bloom.

Yes you did. Because I've done that while not fast traveling, run right the hell by them and gotten away.

You are OK with the fact that you can outrun pretty much anything from level 1? Oh wait, leveled enemies...

[lars573]

I don't know. I just don't think that an empty tower surrounded by townhouses guarded by dudes in rusty suits does not compare to a massive complex guarded by fanatical xenophobes with ornate armor (WHO ACTUALLY ATTACK YOU IF YOU WEAR IT) with a floating space rock converted into a government office (destined to doom the city) and a god. Whatever. As for the temples, there were tons of shrines, temples, and ancient Dunmer keeps. And they had stuff in them other than HDR bloom.

Never went in Dunmer keeps either, the leveled enemies within were always annoying. And yes I do prefer a mix of two very different architectural styles vs. 7 piles of mud bricks with one having a rock floating over it.

You are OK with the fact that you can outrun pretty much anything from level 1? Oh wait, leveled enemies...

More than you could possibly know.

[Prussian to the Iron]

Due to the intense amounts of butthurt between Morrowind and Oblivion going on here, might I suggest a separate thread, specifically designated as an Oblivion v Morrowind topic? It would probably gather more attention and would stop the somewhat off-topic discussion in this thread.

[Gregoshi]

Due to the intense amounts of butthurt between Morrowind and Oblivion going on here, might I suggest a separate thread, specifically designated as an Oblivion v Morrowind topic? It would probably gather more attention and would stop the somewhat off-topic discussion in this thread.

There already is one: Morrowind and Oblivion

[Prussian to the Iron]

There already is one: Morrowind and Oblivion

Then let's get these guys to continue their argument in there

[CrossLOPER]

That thread is kinda ancient.

Never went in Dunmer keeps either, the leveled enemies within were always annoying.

So you didn't explore anything and you were frustrated by the fact that there were enemies which you could not defeat when you were at a low level. I don't know what to tell you. Actually that brings up a good point. Why was a single untrained peasant with substandard equipment able to immediately jump into a hellmouth which consumed an entire city filled with trained guards backed up by a squad of Imperial Guardsmen? In Morrowind, Caius Cosades recommended that you visit trainers and start off slow on your adventures, and you were being watched over by a daedric god in that game. The pacing is just so bad.

And yes I do prefer a mix of two very different architectural styles vs. 7 piles of mud bricks with one having a rock floating over it.

Vivec was larger and had more relevant individuals in each canton. The Imperial City was about the size of one canton and had sectors where there was nothing of note. Though I could say that the Imperial City resembles half a barbell, I can't say anything about personal architectural preferences.

More than you could possibly know.

Again, I don't know what to tell you. It just feels silly that I can trust my character to safely stroll through the wilderness without once being subject to an ambush or being attacked by mountain lions or man-sized crabs that shoot force lightning. It's just laughable.

Then walk! Serious if there's one question I would ask you: Why don't you just walk, you don't have to use fast travel. I would really appreciate if you answer this question. How can something so trivial ruin it for you? How can you play a game if you are that annoyed by something so little.

Are you a grumpy old man?

The fast travel alone does not ruin anything for me. If that was the only problem, I would have never mentioned it. The fact that it exists baffles me. It is utterly unexplained and is presented yo you early in the game, allowing you to go across the province in a moment. I will admit, Morrowind did something similar in the form of the Silt Strider standing right next to Seyda Neen. The difference is that the Silt Strider a) provides a plausible explanation for safe passage and b) crosses over an potentially dangerous area where a new player could easily meet their untimely end. However, they could most certainly try and find quite a few interesting things along the way. The slave cave provides an early opportunity for looting. Most of it is low-quality iron, but it's better than nothing. Backing up a bit, Seyda Neen has its share of drama for such a small village. Further down the road you can become a messenger in a love story, before getting into one yourself.

[Drunk Clown]

So you didn't explore anything and you were frustrated by the fact that there were enemies which you could not defeat when you were at a low level. I don't know what to tell you. Actually that brings up a good point. Why was a single untrained peasant with substandard equipment able to immediately jump into a hellmouth which consumed an entire city filled with trained guards backed up by a squad of Imperial Guardsmen? In Morrowind, Caius Cosades recommended that you visit trainers and start off slow on your adventures, and you were being watched over by a daedric god in that game. The pacing is just so bad.

I completely agree with this one. It's the main reason why I had more fun playing Morrowind than Oblivion. It was satisfying when you found new armor, not to mention there were more pieces (pauldrons, guantlets, left and right). You better do the main quest in Oblivion when you are at a low level, cos when you do it at high it gets harder. That's Bull. Kvatch packed with frost atronachs.

[Prussian to the Iron]

I completely agree with this one. It's the main reason why I had more fun playing Morrowind than Oblivion. It was satisfying when you found new armor, not to mention there were more pieces (pauldrons, guantlets, left and right). You better do the main quest in Oblivion when you are at a low level, cos when you do it at high it gets harder. That's Bull. Kvatch packed with frost atronachs.

Yeah, at a low level, Oblivion was a breeze. especially if you didnt advance your main skills that much you could beat the game with no problem. if you stay at level 10 or 15ish you could definitely beat anything the game throws at you. If you tried to pull crap like that in Morrowind (like attacking an Ash Vampire/citadel), you'd never get through.

[ReluctantSamurai]

On topic: TW. I'm a Shoggie I fanboi through-and-through. I enjoyed the series up to RTW, but CA lost me after that. I have not tried STW2 as of yet (for various reasons, not the least of which is Steam), but I will at some point.

Off topic: I'm probably one of those insane that lars573 refers to. I like to "waste" endless hours wandering the countryside...it's beautiful and it fits the RPG image that my ranger-like characters have. I remember my first playthrough where I would often run into an ambush totally flat-footed because I had the camera view pointed up looking at all the tall scenery :)

In successive playthroughs (and after adding on many, many cool plug-ins) I find myself less and less concerned with doing quests than I do in "fighter sweeps" through the badlands to kill cliff racers and dragons....the latter is much more fun than the former. I never had anywhere near the amount of fun playing Oblivion as I did Morrowind, game mechanics aside. And for me, that's why I play games....to have fun. I still play the Baldur's Gate Trilogy (with a whole slew of mods which folks over at G3 are still cranking out) even to this day, which I suppose points up my opinion on graphics vs. gameplay......

[lars573]

So you didn't explore anything and you were frustrated by the fact that there were enemies which you could not defeat when you were at a low level. I don't know what to tell you. Actually that brings up a good point. Why was a single untrained peasant with substandard equipment able to immediately jump into a hellmouth which consumed an entire city filled with trained guards backed up by a squad of Imperial Guardsmen? In Morrowind, Caius Cosades recommended that you visit trainers and start off slow on your adventures, and you were being watched over by a daedric god in that game. The pacing is just so bad.

Here's a secret about Morrowind. It had level scaling too. Just the least heavy handed of any ES game. So just like in Oblivion you could walk into none quest areas that were full of level keyed critters/undead/bandits. And given how unstable the game was, and my penchant for getting absorbed into playing and not saving. Means in sand box games, I don't go anywhere the game doesn't tell me. That sort of exploring leads to broken controllers. From being fired into the wall/toybox repeatedly. I've went through 2 original Xbox controllers like that. And I can't afford the same with 360 controllers. I nearly broke a controller after dying in an Oblvion gate 8 times. Thankfully it landed on the mailer box for DCUC Swamp Thing, or it might have broke. And the hero of Kvatch has 9 gods looking out for you.

Vivec was larger and had more relevant individuals in each canton. The Imperial City was about the size of one canton and had sectors where there was nothing of note. Though I could say that the Imperial City resembles half a barbell, I can't say anything about personal architectural preferences.

Cyrodill is what half the size of Vvardenfell? The scale is different, ofcourse there's more stuff in Vivec. Your making a VERY bad comparison. Which with Vvardenfell being completely destoryed by the ministry of truth crashing into the city and causing red mountain to obliterate the entire island, if it's ever seen again it will have similar scale to Imperial city.

Again, I don't know what to tell you. It just feels silly that I can trust my character to safely stroll through the wilderness without once being subject to an ambush or being attacked by mountain lions or man-sized crabs that shoot force lightning. It's just laughable.

Oh he probably was. But if you don't draw a weapon and just run along the road, they being in "combat mode" can't catch you. And eventually you'll meet the Imperial watch highway patrol and they'll take care of it.

[CrossLOPER]

Here's a secret about Morrowind. It had level scaling too. Just the least heavy handed of any ES game. So just like in Oblivion you could walk into none quest areas that were full of level keyed critters/undead/bandits. And given how unstable the game was, and my penchant for getting absorbed into playing and not saving. Means in sand box games, I don't go anywhere the game doesn't tell me. That sort of exploring leads to broken controllers. From being fired into the wall/toybox repeatedly. I've went through 2 original Xbox controllers like that. And I can't afford the same with 360 controllers. I nearly broke a controller after dying in an Oblvion gate 8 times. Thankfully it landed on the mailer box for DCUC Swamp Thing, or it might have broke. And the hero of Kvatch has 9 gods looking out for you.

You could argue that fate had an interest in the Hero of Kvatch, but they had no direct intervention from the gods. The Nine Divines are not known to communicate with mortals, with the Neravarine being the prime exception. You do remember Wolf, right??

Cyrodill is what half the size of Vvardenfell? The scale is different, ofcourse there's more stuff in Vivec. Your making a VERY bad comparison. Which with Vvardenfell being completely destoryed by the ministry of truth crashing into the city and causing red mountain to obliterate the entire island, if it's ever seen again it will have similar scale to Imperial city.

How is it a bad comparison? Cyrodill is four times the size of Vvardenfell. They had plenty of space and free artistic reign to design the crossroads of the empire however they wanted and they apparently got tired. Where are the kingdom offices? Are the races in the Imperial City so well integrated that they totally lack any special sectors?

Oh he probably was. But if you don't draw a weapon and just run along the road, they being in "combat mode" can't catch you. And eventually you'll meet the Imperial watch highway patrol and they'll take care of it.

A character with a speed of <85 outrunning a mountain lion... Interesting. I suppose its no more ridiculous than every single bandit wearing deadric gear. I remember when I had to either risk getting my flesh blown off by a wizard or dive into hole under a Dwemer ruin under a modern city being attacked by steam-punk lizards in order to get MOST of a daedric suit of armor. Thanks to Oblivion, I can simply walk 10 meters outside any city and see a pack of marauders wearing suits with matching weapons. I guess you could make the argument that, as the Oblivion crisis persisted, daedric gear became more common. However, I find the scale of this event depicted in the game to be implausible unless a massive demon train full of dark equipment got stranded somewhere and became a dangerous place of legend accessible only after the Oblivion crisis passed.

[Kekvit Irae]

Empire Earth sucks.

Yep, being an updated version of one of the best historic RTS games that gives you the option to fully customize your civilization's unique benefits with upgrade points sure does suck.

At the risk of incurring a moderator's wrath, I'm going to say that the next time you have an opinion, please keep it to yourself. Saying "So-and-so sucks" without backing up your claim is the epidome of immaturity and fanboyism. Look at the big argument above over Oblivion vs Morrowind; both sides give their reasons with subjective opinions and objective facts. If you want to say "So-and-so sucks" then please explain why it sucks.

[Montmorency]

When the shoe is on the other foot...

[Drunk Clown]

Yep, being an updated version of one of the best historic RTS games that gives you the option to fully customize your civilization's unique benefits with upgrade points sure does suck.

At the risk of incurring a moderator's wrath, I'm going to say that the next time you have an opinion, please keep it to yourself. Saying "So-and-so sucks" without backing up your claim is the epidome of immaturity and fanboyism. Look at the big argument above over Oblivion vs Morrowind; both sides give their reasons with subjective opinions and objective facts. If you want to say "So-and-so sucks" then please explain why it sucks.

You call me immature? I find that highly offensive.

[Jolt]

Yep, being an updated version of one of the best historic RTS games that gives you the option to fully customize your civilization's unique benefits with upgrade points sure does suck.

At the risk of incurring a moderator's wrath, I'm going to say that the next time you have an opinion, please keep it to yourself. Saying "So-and-so sucks" without backing up your claim is the epidome of immaturity and fanboyism. Look at the big argument above over Oblivion vs Morrowind; both sides give their reasons with subjective opinions and objective facts. If you want to say "So-and-so sucks" then please explain why it sucks.

I thought Drunk Clown had made it crystal clear that he was a troll. Don't try to reason with a troll.