Quote Originally Posted by Papewaio View Post
People still die before having offspring. Evolution much like history for humans is still very much alive.
Yes and no. At a broader perspective, more no then yes. We let kids live no matter what, because we can. Have a look at Cystic Fibrosis as an example, we pour countless amounts of money into them. We have X amount of adults working to keep these few kids alive on a daily basis. Why? Because we can. Because it is the right thing to do. Why let a child die when we can keep it alive? Is it a burden on society though? Oh hell yes. Fun fact - it is a genetical disease.

Logic: Let them die.
Humanity: Let's not.

Our environment still has pressures built into it. Just look at the likes of Amy Winehouse... Young adults and children still die of suicide, car accidents, drug and alcohol overdoses, and more modern deaths like jay walking whilst having iPhone turned up to 11.
Worst. Point. Ever.

We are not supposed to live as we do. We live in an artificial world, that at the same time is the real world we do in fact live in. Oxymoron - nah - we just created our own world. And now we pay the price.

We are supposed to be surrounded by a tribe, it is how we are meant to function. Amy Winehouse would probably still be alive if she would have been born some hundred years ago, as she would have been surrounded by people who cared about her, and told her to chill, instead of people actually making money the more headlines she made. Get my point?

Now without selective pressures remove to winnow out those who cannot or worse will not look after themselves we have lost a portion of our evolutionary process. However people are still selecting mates based on looks (health & fertility) and wealth (fitness, smarts, hereditary, strategic traits) so in the whole we are still on the evolutionary wheel.
Selecting mates based on looks? That is why old, ugly, rich guys bed 20 year old super models? Or remind me again what your point was?

We let retards play hide the Willy with other retards, the hottest girls in the world are going for guys who had a father or grandfather with cash, we spend our tax money on keeping people alive who by nature should be dead. Sure there is some form of evolution going on, but if it is for the betterment of mankind or not, well, the jury is still out on that one, no?


Evolution does not automatically mean stronger, faster, smarter in fact it selects on survival within the previous envionment. Western governments are continuously involved in eugenics around the world. They alter the environment for all it's citizens with hospital's, fireman, police, schools etc which in turn increase the chances of survival.
I agree that evolution of humanity today does not mean stronger, faster, smarter. But I disagree that it would select survival of humanity at large. If a natural disaster struck, we would have been way more able to deal with it some ten thousand years ago.

As to your second point - Hospitals, firemen and police increase the survival chance of the masses, not of the the human race at large.

The problem is that whilst engaged in the noblest of deeds in protecting some of or weakest we are rewarding those who are parasites on systems. The most obvious and easy targets are welfare mums with six kids and five different fathers... Without government intervention these scenarios would not be multi-generational successes.
Agreed.

Other forms of enviromental change are not so obvious be it IVF for those who would not be able to have children or massive material inequities allowing 80 year old billionaires to attract young fertile mates. Neither of these scenarios could happen without the governments and societies that support them.
IVF? May I remind you that not everyone on this forum is a native english speaker.

As to the rest, you see the same points as me, but you seem to draw very different conclusions.

So yes evolution is still happening. We should not assume that eugenics is not taking place, what we should do is carefully review are we actually loading the dice in a manner that is beneficial in the long term? Then we have to figure in traits that have mixed outcomes like sickle cells, after all not all mutations are solely good or bad and we as a species still fail on the ones that create foresight.
Evolution is not happening, we are creating an artificial one, where we have taken over from nature, very much creating the bubble we live in. It is not evolution if it is man made, but I think you agree with me on this reading what you wrote.

I liked your post at large, and this is a very difficult topic.

Where we really differ is that you believe that evolution is happening, whereas I mean that - yes, it happens, but only in an artificial bubble disconnected to nature at large. Evolution indicates that nature controls it, whereas I claim that we now control nature - to the extent of being able to survive where we should not.