Eugenics: Counter Argument to Inbreeding causing low IQ

[CrossLOPER]

Feel free to add to the list of stuff that is happening then.

edit: and why link to an wiki article on Genetic Drift? To show it plays no role in current evolution?

I think you overestimated the effects of what has only been occurring for a little more than a century. A century is nothing.

[CBR]

I think you overestimated the effects of what has only been occurring for a little more than a century. A century is nothing.

I have not estimated any effect apart from saying that evolution is still happening as we do not control everything. Are you suggesting that the mechanics of evolution no longer does anything for humans?

[Tellos Athenaios]

Smart criminals hardly cause any trouble to the ordinary Joe. They don't prey on the elder and the disabled. I want my grandmother to be able to walk the street at night without having to worry about getting ganged up by a bunch of hyena's.

They don't? Remind me again why we're doing this austerity thing? Because a few smart criminals did not manage to make lots of funny money disappear into unknown pockets and bank accounts?

@Rory: Sociopaths lack empathy. They may still be perfectly able to appreciate the emotions of others by reasoning them through by observing and rationalising behaviour. They may still be able to show compassion in the sense that they might “understand” the emotions of the victim to the point of being able to keep things the least amount of unpleasantness. Additionally they still have a sense of morality, a sense of right and wrong. So as little as they care for others, they may still avoid crime based on understanding that it is “very wrong”.

Psychopaths however do not have such a moral compass: if they want something they'll be damned if they don't get it. Compassion? Yes, if it suits the perpetrator to be compassionate. But if it is easier to just kill a hostage to make a point, then they will without any qualms about it. Should've run faster, shouldn't you?

I'm not sure which one is more dangerous. For society as a whole the white collar crime which undermines the long term livelihood of entire cohorts of its workforce is certainly more dangerous than antisocial behaviour, as tiresome and frustrating as the antisocial behaviour might be.

Of course the real dangerous type is the one where the two blend together.

[Tellos Athenaios]

Sociopaths can be incredibly stupid. You just lack compassion and empathy. Also sociopaths may very well never commit a crime hey are just more likely too (much more likely)

Of course. The point Rory makes is sociopathy can be acted out with even moderate intelligence (you just don't care), whereas psychopathy tends to require a greater intelligence before the behaviour surfaces (you want to get something, therefore you need to devise a means to get it which requires a bit more advanced thought processes than why the heck not). His second point hinges on sociopaths not feeling much (if any) attachment towards others therefore that they will not use their unique ability to not care for anything but their personal enjoyment or enrichment for something which others might benefit from; coupled with the fact that lack of intelligence tends to consign you to petty criminality if you can't get a blue collar job.

... But the open question is whether or not that is really a more terrifying type of criminal than the one which brags about having set up a massive slush fund inside a corporation to a private bank account in Switzerland...

[ajaxfetish]

@Pape: we still have pressure, we still have sexual selection. But in society humans are able to overcome so many evolutionary obstacles it's no comparison, to the point we can extend such advantages to other species (pets, cattle, poultry, etc.).

You don't have to be strong and fit in order to survive because you live in a society which actively seeks to prevent countless disasters that might well befall you if you were on your own: starvation, a host of fatal illnesses, sharks with lasers...

I'd agree with you that you don't have to be strong to survive and reproduce, but you do have to be fit. You just have to fit our current society and environment, not some hunter-gatherer type system. And that's Pape's point, if I'm reading him right. All the mechanisms are still chugging along, same as ever, and we're still evolving as much as we ever have been. The 'evolutionary obstacles' are just different than they used to be.

Ajax

[Fragony]

'They don't? Remind me again why we're doing this austerity thing? Because a few smart criminals did not manage to make lots of funny money disappear into unknown pockets and bank accounts?'

There's a difference between crime and blind cruelty. White board criminal won't attack someone in a wheelchair just for fun, like just happened again, again north africans

http://www.spitsnieuws.nl/archives/c...-elkaar-gemept

Because of their (probably) low IQ because of inbreeding this behaviour can't be corrected, school is too hard, a job they won't keep, so it's better to make sure they don't get equally genetically challenged kids

[CrossLOPER]

I have not estimated any effect apart from saying that evolution is still happening as we do not control everything. Are you suggesting that the mechanics of evolution no longer does anything for humans?

I think I understood what you wrote apart from the way you intended.

[Louis VI the Fat]

'They don't? Remind me again why we're doing this austerity thing? Because a few smart criminals did not manage to make lots of funny money disappear into unknown pockets and bank accounts?'

There's a difference between crime and blind cruelty. White board criminal won't attack someone in a wheelchair just for fun, like just happened again, again north africans

http://www.spitsnieuws.nl/archives/c...-elkaar-gemept

Because of their (probably) low IQ because of inbreeding this behaviour can't be corrected, school is too hard, a job they won't keep, so it's better to make sure they don't get equally genetically challenged kids

Well I agree with the bit about forced sterilisation of these pests. Although I'd go for the easier route of just putting them on an electric chair outright.


As to the larger debate, here is a rub: their (grand)parents were and are well behaved citizens. Fine cleaners and factory workers, unlikely to have criminal records, in fact, probably denied entry if they had a (lengthy) criminal record.

[Tellos Athenaios]

All the mechanisms are still chugging along, same as ever, and we're still evolving as much as we ever have been. The 'evolutionary obstacles' are just different than they used to be.

Ajax

We are still evolving, yes, but crucially the driving factor is now sexual selection rather than natural selection. That is relevant because formerly inbreeding meant natural selection would come along to wipe out nearly your entire branch of humanity.

[Fragony]

We are still evolving, yes, but crucially the driving factor is now sexual selection

Some people haven't been paying attention then, it's a rather big problem, what you want to be so just isn't so, and you know that. Or you really don't, which would be somewhat typical

[Tellos Athenaios]

Some people haven't been paying attention then, it's a rather big problem, what you want to be so just isn't so, and you know that. Or you really don't, which would be somewhat typical

Eh? Natural selection is where infertile couples cannot ever reproduce because they're, well, infertile. Quite a few of those infertility issues are now relatively well understood and can be mitigated, others are even effectively solved. Sexual selection is where psychopaths are actively rewarded for their psychopathic behaviour as it tends to be almost a prerequisite for positions of status.