GOP Nominee

[Crazed Rabbit]

Gary Johnson does a IAmA at reddit and twitters answers to debate questions:
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comment...of_mt_everest/

http://twitter.com/#!/govgaryjohnson

CR

[PanzerJaeger]

I personally don't feel that Cain has the intellectual capacity for the job, but here's a pretty good analysis of his candidacy vis-à-vis the 'Tea Party is racist' meme.

In the latest Washington Post-ABC News poll, released last week, Cain's supporters are the most committed to his candidacy, compared with supporters of the other GOP contenders. Seventy percent of Republicans polled said the more they heard from Cain during the debates, the more they liked him. Given that the percentage of African Americans who identify themselves as Republican is approximately 10 percent, Cain's support is overwhelmingly drawn from whites, Latinos and other ethnic minorities.

Conversely, Obama and some of his supporters have begun to use race as a wedge issue to bolster his re-election prospects. Several members of the Congressional Black Caucus have called the tea party movement and its supporters racist. In August, Rep. Andre Carson, D-Ind., the caucus' chief vote-counter said that "some of them in Congress right now of this tea party movement would love to see you and me ... hanging on a tree." He likened to "Jim Crow" the efforts of the tea party and its supporters in Congress to limit the size of the federal government.

...

There always will be a fringe element that is unable to accept individuals based on the color of their skin. But continuing to paint the tea party as racist is race-baiting by dissatisfied Democrats. Equally problematic is the insinuation that black voters should blindly support the president. Cain made that criticism when he said he thought blacks had been "brainwashed" into supporting Democratic candidates for president.

Consider Obama's speech to the caucus gala last month. "I don't have time to feel sorry for myself. I don't have time to complain. I am going to press on. I expect all of you to march with me and press on," the president said. "Take off your bedroom slippers, put on your marching shoes. Shake it off. Stop complaining, stop grumbling, stop crying."

Here, the president of the United States, speaking before a largely African American audience, elected to use imagery from the civil rights era to say in essence: "Don't criticize me. Just keep working for me." What is left unsaid here, of course, is: "Keep doing these things for me ... because I'm black." Perhaps Obama feels comfortable with this implication, given the popular media narrative that Republicans and tea party activists are either implicitly or explicitly racist. Yet those voters are behind Cain's growing popularity.

During his campaign, Obama generally refused to invoke race. Now he apparently feels compelled to do so to generate support for his policies and his re-election bid. But it seems that conservatives have taken a step forward to support a black candidate while Obama has taken two steps back by using race to divide Americans, rather than bring us together.

[Xiahou]

I personally don't feel that Cain has the intellectual capacity for the job

Why do you say that? I wouldn't think you could build up a resume like his without some smarts.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Consider Obama's speech to the caucus gala last month. "I don't have time to feel sorry for myself. I don't have time to complain. I am going to press on. I expect all of you to march with me and press on," the president said. "Take off your bedroom slippers, put on your marching shoes. Shake it off. Stop complaining, stop grumbling, stop crying."Here, the president of the United States, speaking before a largely African American audience, elected to use imagery from the civil rights era to say in essence: "Don't criticize me. Just keep working for me." What is left unsaid here, of course, is: "Keep doing these things for me ... because I'm black."

Talk about pulling stuff out of your ***.

[Major Robert Dump]

If you're talking about the president, then yes. The vote-for-the-black-democrat-because-you're-black is the great unwritten rule, as is criticize-the-black-man-makes-you-racist is the other. This is why the left gets so irate and dumbfounded about a black conservative. This is why the entire tea party is racist, no matter what evidence is shown likewise.

It's almost like Democrats forget what Democrats were doing 60 years ago

**It's also why the left hates Michelle Malkin so much, how dare she be a minority and Republican, who does she think she is?

[PanzerJaeger]

Why do you say that? I wouldn't think you could build up a resume like his without some smarts.

That's definitely an impressive business record, and I don't think I'd make it as a ballistics analyst for the Navy. I've watched a lot of interviews with Cain over the last couple of weeks, though, and there just doesn't seem to be much depth or thought behind his positions. Maybe I should have said 'depth of knowledge' instead of 'intellectual capacity'.

Of course, there are exceptions, like his dismantling of the black unemployment disparity = racism claim the Left so often throws out there.



And on the subject of Cain and interviews, I don't think I've ever seen a more ridiculous interview in my life, especially at 7:20 in the first and 5:40 in the second.

[a completely inoffensive name]

If you're talking about the president, then yes. The vote-for-the-black-democrat-because-you're-black is the great unwritten rule, as is criticize-the-black-man-makes-you-racist is the other. This is why the left gets so irate and dumbfounded about a black conservative. This is why the entire tea party is racist, no matter what evidence is shown likewise.

Yeah, you can't say the Tea Party is racist just because they sing Barack the magic negro and photoshop pictures of Obama with watermelon and a bone in his nose.

It's almost like Democrats forget what Democrats were doing 60 years ago

Because the composition of the Democratic party is exactly the same as it was 60 years ago right? Democrats still have the South as their bastion for votes right? Oh wait, the 60s and 70s happened.

**It's also why the left hates Michelle Malkin so much, how dare she be a minority and Republican, who does she think she is?

I don't like her because she is an idiot.

[PanzerJaeger]

Yeah, you can't say the Tea Party is racist just because they sing Barack the magic negro and photoshop pictures of Obama with watermelon and a bone in his nose.

There's that useful 'they' again, which can be as broad as its user wishes.

[a completely inoffensive name]

There's that useful 'they' again, which can be as broad as its user wishes.

Their leaders and figureheads, which presumably they support.

[PanzerJaeger]

The same leaders who seem to have thrown their support behind the man in the videos I posted earlier?

[a completely inoffensive name]

The same leaders who seem to have thrown their support behind the man in the videos I posted earlier?

You got it. Supporting a black person != not racist. You go ahead and have a field day with that statement, but it is quite obvious what they are doing. Since Obama came into office, they first rushed Michael Steele in as RNC chairman, then when he performed disappointingly from a PR perspective, they quickly grew tired of him. Now it is election time and Cain is getting the spotlight. And when he doesn't perform as well as they want, they will abandon him in a way they didn't with McCain even though McCain failed as hard as a candidate possibly could.

[PanzerJaeger]

You got it. Supporting a black person != not racist. You go ahead and have a field day with that statement, but it is quite obvious what they are doing. Since Obama came into office, they first rushed Michael Steele in as RNC chairman, then when he performed disappointingly from a PR perspective, they quickly grew tired of him.

Now it is election time and Cain is getting the spotlight. And when he doesn't perform as well as they want, they will abandon him in a way they didn't with McCain even though McCain failed as hard as a candidate possibly could.

I'm pretty dense so it's not all that obvious to me. So you're saying that Tea Partiers are racist, but it's such a secret racism that they're willing to support black leadership at the highest levels of the party and even a black presidential candidate in their effort to get the current black president out of the White House?

And umm... they didn't support McCain. They split between Romney (then considered the conservative choice) and Huckabee, letting McCain slip by with less than 50% of the GOP primary vote. Obviously once he was the GOP nominee and the alternative was a blue state liberal, many held their nose and supported him. Even then though, the Palin decision was due in large part to a perceived lack of conservative enthusiasm for the McCain candidacy.

You can say a lot about the Tea Party types, but they have consistently supported the most conservative candidate on the ballot, regardless of sex, race, or ethnic origins - and not just for show either, they've showed up at the ballot box in the deep south and elected them. That's why they promptly dumped a Tea Party pandering WASP governer from Texas who was seemingly readymade for them simply due to his immigration stance and have moved on to what they perceive to be an even more purely conservative candidate - who just happens to be black.

The main issue for Cain is the national sales tax in his 999 plan that can be raised by future governments and some of the positions he's taken in the past that haven't yet emerged in the mainstream - not his race.

[Major Robert Dump]

Yeah, you can't say the Tea Party is racist just because they sing Barack the magic negro and photoshop pictures of Obama with watermelon and a bone in his nose.


Because the composition of the Democratic party is exactly the same as it was 60 years ago right? Democrats still have the South as their bastion for votes right? Oh wait, the 60s and 70s happened.


I don't like her because she is an idiot.

1. Some morons acting fools is not representative of the entire group. I give you the protests going on right now, no? But if one were to call the protestors unemployed hacks, our newsies will be up in arms, meanwhile they call the tea party racists because of a few bad apples.

2. A lot of the Democratic battle cries are the result of bad democratic policies. The 60s and 70s came, yes, and the younger members helped change the movement. My point, however, is that they were the racists, they were the ones who stood in the way of desegregation. This is the problem with "platforms", a bunch of things bunched together that had nothing to do with one another but binds party together. Democratds did not lead the Civil Rights movement, but they led the New Deal. I can almost, without a doubt, utterly promise you that most young people today do not know this, because they automatically associate Democrats with civil rights, when really the civil rights of today has been reduced to pandering for votes for people who are make believe oppressed. Make the people think they have a cuase, support their cause, and you now have votes. That reverse thinking means that if you do not support their cause, and there are minorities involved, that makes you a racist. Dumb.

3. Michelle Malkin gets comments on her website that are regularly directed at her Asian heritage. So much for the racially sensitive left. Black conservatives are called Uncle Toms and confused, aka Clarence Thomas and JC Watts, so much for the racial sensitivity of the left. If all of these minorities stopped voting, as did all of the people who trumpet their causes, they would be of no use to the Democratic Party. You, ACIN, may genuinely care for these people and think they are legitimately oppressed, and that is where you and I will differ in most regards. Liberal Politicians, however, could care less, and use the sensitivity of people like you and Sean Penn to line their pockets, maintain a voter base and essentially use you as tools. I am not suggesting that the Republican party does not do this in their own sneaky little ways, because they do, but with a different game plan

[Tellos Athenaios]

Interrupting the race conversation with a News of the Weird item on its own (Wannabe Obama replacement tried to hire Ballmer), best summarised by one of the comments on the article: “DIPLOMATS DIPLOMATS DIPLOMATS DIPLOMATS!!!!!”.

[Cecil XIX]

You got it. Supporting a black person != not racist. You go ahead and have a field day with that statement, but it is quite obvious what they are doing. Since Obama came into office, they first rushed Michael Steele in as RNC chairman, then when he performed disappointingly from a PR perspective, they quickly grew tired of him. Now it is election time and Cain is getting the spotlight. And when he doesn't perform as well as they want, they will abandon him in a way they didn't with McCain even though McCain failed as hard as a candidate possibly could.

John McCain and Michael Steele are part of the Republican establishment. They operate in different circles from Herman Cain, and the people who supported McCain in the 2008 primaries and Steele for RNC Chairman are supporting Romney this time around. The reason for Cain's surge in the polls is that he's a conservative, he's not Romney and he has a bold plan for conservative Reform in "9-9-9". He's also the first challenger to Romney who hasn't collapsed during the first debate after his ascendency.

As long as Cain can avoid stumbling in the way Pawlenty, Bachmann and Perry did, I think he's got the nomination locked up. Romney's probably the least likely person to get the nomination, (don't want 2008 again) and he's probably the least electable too in the general with the possible exceptions of Huntsman and Paul.

[Ronin]

I'm pretty dense so it's not all that obvious to me. So you're saying that Tea Partiers are racist, but it's such a secret racism that they're willing to support black leadership at the highest levels of the party and even a black presidential candidate in their effort to get the current black president out of the White House?

you're talking like people are saying that the tea party is the Klan....I think it's a lot more subtle and complex than that.
I think the racial motivation against Obama is real for a significant number of them...but it's a lot more subconscious and buried than for the average moron marching down the road in a white robe...most of these people would not admit to any kind of racial based prejudice even if you tried to beat them out of it......the fact that they just happened to rise up and organize the moment a black man was getting near to the white house, ....one of those crazy coincidences... along with all those racial terms thrown around in their rhetoric and in signs at protests.

as for them possibly choosing a black candidate, let's look at the 2 cases, both black, yes.
but one of them disagrees strongly with them politically, and has been presented insistently by their favorite "news" organizations as a "socialist", a secret muslim, possibly even not a native citizen, basically he's seen as threatening.
the other one is a conservative, has a tax plan they like, is non threatening and is seen as someone who can possibly defeat the "evil socialist muslim" Barack Hussein Obama....
put into simple terms..."he's one of the good ones"

[Beskar]

I love hypocrisy. And Bill Maher. It's interesting how all of the funniest political commentators/satirists are liberal...

It is actually the crowd they are addressing. The problem with the stereotypical Republican crowd.. those "hilarious comments" are actually their political beliefs, they don't see the funny side of it.

It is an in-joke where effectively the only people who don't get it are those who hold those opinions.

[a completely inoffensive name]

And umm... they didn't support McCain. They split between Romney (then considered the conservative choice) and Huckabee, letting McCain slip by with less than 50% of the GOP primary vote. Obviously once he was the GOP nominee and the alternative was a blue state liberal, many held their nose and supported him. Even then though, the Palin decision was due in large part to a perceived lack of conservative enthusiasm for the McCain candidacy.

kk. usually when liberals are pissed at their candidate they either dont vote or vote for nader. but it seems the conservative base is very loyal to whoever the leader is.

You can say a lot about the Tea Party types, but they have consistently supported the most conservative candidate on the ballot, regardless of sex, race, or ethnic origins - and not just for show either, they've showed up at the ballot box in the deep south and elected them. That's why they promptly dumped a Tea Party pandering WASP governer from Texas who was seemingly readymade for them simply due to his immigration stance and have moved on to what they perceive to be an even more purely conservative candidate - who just happens to be black.

If what I put in bold was true, then everyone would have voted for Ron Paul in the primary in 2008 and this round as well.

The main issue for Cain is the national sales tax in his 999 plan that can be raised by future governments and some of the positions he's taken in the past that haven't yet emerged in the mainstream - not his race.

What positions? Declaring that communities can choose to force a mosque out?

[a completely inoffensive name]

John McCain and Michael Steele are part of the Republican establishment.

Steele has been out of the establishment ever since his PR (AKA we have black leaders as well) was shown to be a big joke. They kicked him out as soon as they could and now he is a commentator on MSNBC of all places.

They operate in different circles from Herman Cain, and the people who supported McCain in the 2008 primaries and Steele for RNC Chairman are supporting Romney this time around. The reason for Cain's surge in the polls is that he's a conservative, he's not Romney and he has a bold plan for conservative Reform in "9-9-9". He's also the first challenger to Romney who hasn't collapsed during the first debate after his ascendency.

The reason for Cain's surge is that the planned leaders (Romney and Perry) didn't work out well when Perry failed hard. SO the establishment had to rally around someone else. They already ditched Bachmann who was being plastered on tv night and day until the minute Perry entered the race. Pawlenty had dropped out, so they were running out of sane people they could depend on for keeping the status quo (AKA not Ron Paul).

As long as Cain can avoid stumbling in the way Pawlenty, Bachmann and Perry did, I think he's got the nomination locked up. Romney's probably the least likely person to get the nomination, (don't want 2008 again) and he's probably the least electable too in the general with the possible exceptions of Huntsman and Paul.

Cain was talking about his plans since at least early January. And now the public is responding? Yeah ok. Manufactured irrelevance and relevance is in full effect here.

[Major Robert Dump]

So Michael Steele should not have been kicked out for poor performance? Why, because he's black? You make it sound like he was somebodies patsy, when in fact he failed miserably and sid things that were so idiotic they had to get rid of him.

I don't know where this "he's one of the good ones" mentalilty is coming in. Of course there are racists. there are people who will never support a black candidate. there are people who will only support a black candidate as a golden goose against another black candidate. But to suggest that all support for Cain comes from subtle racism (wanting to use a black to trump a black) is as bad as saying all opposition to Obama is racist, and all oppotition to a certain crusade that allegedly (although not really) will make life better for minorities is racist. I mean really. This is just ghastly.

We have all these babies talking about racial inequality and wholesale oppression, and these same babies are the ones to want to bring race into everything. EVERYTHING. Bill Clinton's welfare reform comes to mind. Boy did the wolves turn on him quick.

** say what you will about Cains "manufactured" rise in the polls. This is politics. People come and go, and it has a hell of a lot more to do with what the media is saying and doing that what the average joe thinks or feels. Cain got zero coverage from the liberal press, and Fox blew him off. Don't act so surpirsed. I would like to remind you that despite being a steady 3rd place in polls and debates, Ron Paul does not exist in news reporting of standings. He just is not there. I think it's funny that you act like this is some sort of Republican conspiracy to use a black man when if anyone is at fault its the media and the FEC for their stupid debate inclusion rules.

[Lemur]

For those of us who missed the Vegas debate, here's a tease:

[PanzerJaeger]

After the five debates and doing some more research on the declared candidates, I've essentially made up my mind in favor of Romney, which is pretty amazing considering the fact that I consider myself very right wing. That could be a reflection of some shifting in my own thinking, the state of conservative politics, or simply the current crop of candidates. It has been fairly disappointing seeing competent candidate after competent candidate decline to run over the spring and summer. Maybe they perceive the same issue that Seamus highlighted earlier in the thread - that the media establishment simply will not allow the first black president to be voted out in failure. Who knows.

Of the declared candidates with a chance, however, Romney is the only serious one in the bunch, in my opinion. Further, at this point in our nation's history, I actually think his rather amorphous political alignment is a positive. The coming years are going to bring huge challenges to the nation that will shake it to its very core. The answers to our fundamental problems probably won't fit neatly in to our established Right-Left political dichotomy, and having a leader that isn't locked into a particular ideology may turn out to be an asset. You can say a lot about Romney, but one thing he seems to be good at is fixing broken organizations. Whether it was mismanaged companies, mismanaged international events, or mismanaged states - he's always left them in better shape than he found them. More than anything, America needs a skilled administrator that prioritizes solutions over ideology. In that way, Romney reminds me of a slightly less paranoid version of one of my favorite presidents, Richard Nixon.

[Lemur]

More importantly, here's a blind taste test of Godfather's Pizza. We can only hope that a Cain presidency would be more flavorful.

I agree with PJ that Romney is the most promising of the current frontrunners. If I could wave my hand and pick Obama's replacement, I would take Jon Huntsman, but that snowball has melted in Hell's fiery pit. Or as WaPo put it, "A system that rejects a Jon Huntsman in favor of a Herman Cain isn’t a primary process. It is a primal scream."

[a completely inoffensive name]

So Michael Steele should not have been kicked out for poor performance? Why, because he's black? You make it sound like he was somebodies patsy, when in fact he failed miserably and sid things that were so idiotic they had to get rid of him.

It was under his leadership that Republicans regained the House and almost took control of the Senate. He got the Republicans where they wanted, in a spot to defy Obama. Just because they say he had "bad performance" doesn't mean he actually did. Just a made up justification.

I don't know where this "he's one of the good ones" mentalilty is coming in. Of course there are racists. there are people who will never support a black candidate. there are people who will only support a black candidate as a golden goose against another black candidate. But to suggest that all support for Cain comes from subtle racism (wanting to use a black to trump a black) is as bad as saying all opposition to Obama is racist, and all oppotition to a certain crusade that allegedly (although not really) will make life better for minorities is racist. I mean really. This is just ghastly.

I am not saying that all support for Cain comes from subtle racism at all. I am saying that the leadership of the Republican Party is being subtly racist by purposely hyping up the only legit black candidate through their PR channels (Fox) because he is black.

Let me clarify, this is how I am saying it went down.
1. They set up Romney vs Bachmann against each other. We got the moderate to keep the sane people interested and the religious to appease our base.
2. Oh Rick Perry comes out just after a bible fest, quick, make Bachmann irrelevant despite winning the straw pole and only talk about Perry now.
3. Now we have Romney vs Perry.
4. Oh dang, Perry hasn't been doing well onstage. Let shift attention suddenly to Cain because he has "experience" and he gives the impression that we are not homogeneous (aka the subtle racism).
5. Oh Perry has bounced back in recent debates and Cain looked weak under the new attention, quick shift attention back to Romney vs Perry because having religious Perry in the spotlight is better than two private sector moderates.

The media controls the process by leading up to a poll with assertion after assertion of who is going to win or looked the best. Human psychology of wanting to be behind the "winners" and not the losers naturally has those touted on tv as being the winners, which the media then uses to make more assertions etc... The Republican leadership has a better history of using the media than any other group. Roger Ailes conceived of a pro Republican news channel back in the 1970s and what is he in charge of now?

We have all these babies talking about racial inequality and wholesale oppression, and these same babies are the ones to want to bring race into everything. EVERYTHING. Bill Clinton's welfare reform comes to mind. Boy did the wolves turn on him quick.

I don't hear anything about racial inequality. This came up when Obama said, "you should march with me hand in hand to victory." and now people are taking that as, "oh god, race, race, race, now he wants to give more welfare to blacks."

** say what you will about Cains "manufactured" rise in the polls. This is politics. People come and go, and it has a hell of a lot more to do with what the media is saying and doing that what the average joe thinks or feels. Cain got zero coverage from the liberal press, and Fox blew him off. Don't act so surpirsed. I would like to remind you that despite being a steady 3rd place in polls and debates, Ron Paul does not exist in news reporting of standings. He just is not there. I think it's funny that you act like this is some sort of Republican conspiracy to use a black man when if anyone is at fault its the media and the FEC for their stupid debate inclusion rules.

The media and the FEC are largely influenced by the political factions. This is what happens when corporations become too big. There are 6 companies controlling almost all of american media, the Republicans are always the ones trying to give as many tax breaks to large companies as possible, the corruption runs deep and to try and blame one without recognizing the inter dependencies and relationships between the two factions is just inaccurate.

[Major Robert Dump]

Yes, Michael Steele was solely responsible for Republican gains in the electionband he was only fired because he was black. It was all so obvious.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Yes, Michael Steele was solely responsible for Republican gains in the electionband he was only fired because he was black. It was all so obvious.

Congrats, MRD, you have successfully twisted my words.

[Major Robert Dump]

Get used to it, since you plan a career in politics. I'm just helping you get ready.

[Ronin]

Why do you say that? I wouldn't think you could build up a resume like his without some smarts.

try to follow his logic...the interviewer couldn´t and I don´t blame him.

[Montmorency]

He made himself pretty clear at the end:

I don'tbelieve a woman should have an abortion...even if she is raped or is a victim of incest, because there are other options.

[Ronin]

He made himself pretty clear at the end:

even a broken clock is right twice a day.

he says 'that's her (the woman's) choice....interviewer goes "then that means it's legal"...NO.

so it's not her choice then now is it?.....it's her choice from the limited options he is willing to consider.

now...that stand is fine for a person to take.....my point here is not his position towards abortion.....one can agree with it or not..but he does come across as a bumbling fool trying to express it.