The gift of Islam

**Lazy O** · 11-29-2011, 10:22

Walaik as Salam.

But the zero was Indian :)

**Fragony** · 11-29-2011, 11:23

Originally Posted by Lazy O

Walaik as Salam.

But the zero was Indian :)

Assyrian in fact

**Conradus** · 11-30-2011, 00:22

The Parthenon's Greek all right, he means the Pantheon.

Though stating that the architecture of domes is due to muslim influence seems to be forgetting the Hagia Sophia which was built before Mohammed started preaching his new religion.

**Fragony** · 11-30-2011, 15:38

Originally Posted by Conradus

The Parthenon's Greek all right, he means the Pantheon.

Though stating that the architecture of domes is due to muslim influence seems to be forgetting the Hagia Sophia which was built before Mohammed started preaching his new religion.

Hagia Sophia is a bit of an oddity, can't think of anything similar in the christian world, while it's dome structure was seen as a marvel of engineering. No idea why it wasn't copied. Would love to see it in person one day.

I.e. your “foot”, your allegations of “BS”, your parody of the way I “argue that ‘teh Muzlums’ demolished” this or that, they come across as rather peevish, together with the generally definitive and quarrelsome tone you adopt.

That was directed at me I think, it's normal that Scandinavians get emotional if you don't absolutely adore everything Islam and point out historical facts that aren't 100%OK

But Watchman I can back up my claim of the gift of war very easily, and had you not lost your self-control you could have read my full post. It's war that led to the age of discovery because trade routes been jammed, it's a direct cause. If I take a fast glance I don't think Nowake touched the other route, the Silk-route, that was jammed likewise and for the same reason, wih the same consequences. So yeah the gift of Islam to Europe is war, capice et presto? Yes? Good axe-boy

**Nowake** · 11-30-2011, 16:27

Uff, I understand why you replied as you did and I wouldn't label it as uncalled for - *whispers* and he's no Scandinavian, don't push his finno-ugric buttons.

Yet would you please consider recasting your very last sentences and, in doing so, transferring the emphasis from the specific instance to the abstract concept without, of course, in any way impairing the conceptual integrity of the theme?

**Fragony** · 11-30-2011, 18:06

Originally Posted by Nowake

would you please consider recasting your very last sentences

Nah I kinda like them, what I lack in tact I compromise with style. Not my fault Scandinavians can get a bit unpleasant when you say something that goes against everything they know to be true. History is important we shouldn't leave an inch for revisionism, it's just the right thing to do. And the respect we are supposed to have is based only on revisionism. Things weren't like that, at all. So easy to blast holes in their canvas and imho they could use the fresh air

**Hax** · 12-01-2011, 01:22

It's war that led to the age of discovery because trade routes been jammed, it's a direct cause. If I take a fast glance I don't think Nowake touched the other route, the Silk-route, that was jammed likewise and for the same reason, wih the same consequences. So yeah the gift of Islam to Europe is war, capice et presto? Yes? Good axe-boy

Critical research failure.

The fact that you are only referring to the Age of Discovery and the importance of trade through the Silk Road means that in fact, you are denying everything else, including the fact that important Muslim scholars worked in Sicilian Normandy, for example. Additionally, if you had read my or Nowake's post, it would be obvious that there were many other things that were developed in Islamic societies that have entered Europe in Medieval times. A personal example is the concept of the English university; according to my Professor of History, P.M. Sijpesteijn, it is generally accepted that the universities at Cambridge and Oxford were modelled after madrasas that Crusaders had encountered in the Levant.

Additionally, wouldn't you agree that the Portuguese attempts at monopolising Indian naval trade was much more an economic desire rather than a necessity borne out of what? Islamic hatred towards the West? Ottoman attempts at discriminating Europeans? I'm sorry, but there is absolutely nothing that suggests that trade routes were actively being jammed by Islamic dynasties.

I'm sorry, but you're going to have to better, way better to suggest that there was some sort of Occidentalist thought that predominated the policies of Islamic societies in the 15th and 16th centuries, because frankly, as a student of Arabic, it's just a waste of my time. Seriously.

**Tsar Alexsandr** · 12-02-2011, 06:35

Originally Posted by Fragony

Hagia Sophia is a bit of an oddity, can't think of anything similar in the christian world, while it's dome structure was seen as a marvel of engineering. No idea why it wasn't copied. Would love to see it in person one day.

Well the Greek Orthodox cultures and Russian Orthodox cultures did produce domed architecture (St. Basils as well as any number of Russian cathedrals showcase this.) Hagia Sofia is indeed Greek but the many mosques of the Middle East were larger built by the Muslims. Dome's were not a unique feature of Muslim architecture as much as a specialty.

While we're talking about domes I'd like to point out India's Taj Mahal was built by the Mughal warlord Shah Jahan who was of course also an Islamic ruler, which of course has a prominent dome.