Capo di Tutti Capi IV [Concluded]

**AggonyKing** · 12-03-2011, 08:23

congrats to the winners ^_^ was a fun game :D can't wait for another huge one like this one.

**Populus Romanus** · 12-03-2011, 08:49

Congrats to the winners!

Thank you to the awesome hosts, this never could have happened without you!

**Niklas** · 12-03-2011, 09:10

And so it ends at last. Congratulations Askthepizzaguy, your achievements in this game are the kind of stuff that legends are made of. You were awesome!

I gave you my best shot, tried to be a worthy adversary, and yet it wasn't enough. Now we both stand as victors, and yet for me the victory is hollow, a mere acceptance of the inevitable. Next time, Pizza...

**Double A** · 12-03-2011, 09:34

Wow. I still can't believe I lived after that double cross.

Funnily enough, I had originally planned to do that waaaaay back during the time where Pizza sent out a mass PM to basically everyone. I was gonna send it to GH for the lulz, but accidentally sent it to Pizza instead.

Red text was I could change any detective results on me twice. I never once used it. Last game I had luck. That was way better. Fortunately, I never got attacked!

I was originally a Wiseguy, contrary to what Pizza said before. So, yeah, he lied. He does that sometimes.

**Askthepizzaguy** · 12-03-2011, 09:41

When we were young the future was so bright
The old neighborhood was so alive
And every kid on the whole darn street
Was gonna make it big in every beat

Now the neighborhood's cracked and torn
The kids are grown up but their lives are worn
How can one little street
Swallow so many lives

Chances thrown
Nothing's free
Longing for
Used to be
Still it's hard
Hard to see
Fragile lives
shattered dreams

Jenny had a chance, well she really did
Instead she dropped out and had a couple of kids
Mark still lives at home cause he's got no job
He just plays guitar and smokes a lot of -

Jay committed suicide
Brandon OD'd and died
What the heck is going on?
The cruellest dream - reality

Chances thrown
Nothing's free
Longing for
what used to be
Still it's hard
Hard to see
Fragile lives
Shattered dreams

I will have a lot of commentary, and here are many of the quicktopics.

http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/q4LFjDJESRR
4 FAMILY QT- included the Tataglia (Autolycus) before he was absorbed into the Cunio.... then the Clemenza. I brought you on journey, Auto man.

http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/hFhz54aX36h7D
3 Family QT, after we absorbed the Tataglia and killed off the Barzini.

http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/iq63s77TBi6
CUNIO FAMILY QUICKTOPIC that I started (purpose is for me to have a place to chat with them before I become Cunio. I'm Mintberry Crunch.)

http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/qChprVm6FfyE
CORLEONE FAMILY QUICKTOPIC that I started (purpose is for me to chat with the Corleone. I'm Mintberry crunch.)

http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/XDVEaND4UQdY
STRACCHI FAMILY QUICKTOPIC that I started (purpose is for me to chat with the Stracchi. I'm Chester Cheetah.)

http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/T6WG38Qe5dPgN
TOWNIE RESISTANCE QUICKTOPIC that I gained access to through my spies. (wink)

http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/iaSkdJXLtirE
CORLEONE FAMILY QUICKTOPIC- the original one I didn't start, I believe. Didn't gain access until after the Corleone were mostly dead.

http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/fhAChp74iJSk
Another one.

http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/pU6eWK4hcJ6M2
This is one the Corleone Don invited me to, to discuss business.

http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/S2nBBbSuFYwUK
This Corleone quicktopic, I was given by Backwards Logic, after I plotted the first attempts on the Corleone family. This was meant to prove they had little ill intent on the Stracchi, but GamezRule's post in there somewhere was useful as leverage in the negotiations. I knew he had not the strongest influence on the Corleone but I used it as a post facto justification for the attack, to make the Stracchi and myself look like we had the high ground.

http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/ZtHSPVgerVxk
Another Cunio quicktopic. This was one where they were hiding their identities. I also wasn't invited right away.

http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/TJ5yg29HJN9ZQ
3 Don Quicktopic. Tellos = fyremarble, Gnarly = Don Cunio, Gamez = Gamez. I was given this by fyremarble.

http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/mVrxktXxccGT8
The "Gambino family" quicktopic. This was a fake family I created which included 6 Corleone, 4 Cunio and 2 Stracchi, to convince the Corleone that I was serious about peace and winning with them. It went defunct when we made the final moves to eliminate the Corleone.

http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/VtAZLfiw6W7tP
This is the FAKE DeCavalcante family quicktopic. It was given to prospective DeCavalcante (renamed Clemenza) people who I didn't trust. Like Diana Abnoba. See, the idea here was to convince folks who had been informed of our plans that they were not ready for action yet. This would make them think they had time to prepare. Instead, our real plans were discussed elsewhere and much accelerated. The code names made it seem more authentic. However, I didn't discuss very much and the reason why was because we were about to attack anyway.

http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/Zc7ySUD3s3jBA
This is a hidden, advanced Stracchi quicktopic that I was given. I spotted classical hero plotting against me and immediately warned him off of trying it.

The all seeing eye is..... all seeing, I guess.

http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/tjwq9acjmhFuc
Wiseguy unaligned quicktopic. I wasn't given it until it was basically defunct.

http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/SXUXquTJZ8h
Yet another Corleone quicktopic. Paranoid people, those Corleone.

http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/5jBbEvC7xVz
CLEMENZA FAMILY QUICKTOPIC

The real spaghetti-o.

And finally...

http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/FKXHT594sqp5t
Darth Sidious / Darth Maul quicktopic.

Askthepizzaguy - Darth Sidious
LazyMcCrow - Darth Maul.

All this time I was training him to be Capo, to take my place when I died, or if it was politically possible, to make him Capo to begin with. Little did I realize mister wiseguy who had trouble getting kills, and mister Made who struggled to become Made, who had constant computer issues.... (LOL) was really the serial killer.

When I found out, I lol'ed.

I then asked the game host if he could kill me and become Capo himself, because his play was that epic. Shame he didn't get his 5 kills though.

Use your aggressive instincts, boy. Let the hate flow.....

**Askthepizzaguy** · 12-03-2011, 09:47

Originally Posted by Double A

I was originally a Wiseguy, contrary to what Pizza said before. So, yeah, he lied. He does that sometimes.

I never told one lie this whole game.

**Askthepizzaguy** · 12-03-2011, 10:01

Also, CLASSICAL HERO WAS NOT A PLANT.

He really was trying to rebel against me! You silly bananas.

Just like Diana Abnoba really wanted to backstab me good. You turned her down too. You know, sometimes even my closest friends want me dead after I'm a gigantic megalomaniacal jerkwad. It is possible they'd choose to betray me and you turned them down, how could you, how could you.

**Double A** · 12-03-2011, 10:03

Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

I never told one lie this whole game.

To quote a famous man, I lol'ed.

**Choxorn** · 12-03-2011, 10:03

Pizza, you're a magnificent bastard, and I really need to get around to reading your book.

**Niklas** · 12-03-2011, 10:19

We didn't turn Diana down, she turned us down. And I really can't believe that Hero wasn't a plant - from my perspective it all looked so obvious.

**Askthepizzaguy** · 12-03-2011, 10:58

Originally Posted by Niklas

We didn't turn Diana down, she turned us down. And I really can't believe that Hero wasn't a plant - from my perspective it all looked so obvious.

I have no idea what really happened between you and Diana. All I know is that the diplomacy was bad on both ends... Diana's not very experienced with threatening/pushing people or even beguiling them with her charms, so when she tried, it just sounded like a worse version of the deal I offered you guys. Mine was fake, though, hers was real and would have won you the game.

That said, the Corleone didn't agree or even fake an agreement to get things rolling... an opportunity lost. I was worth lying for. Should have at least lied to her, so someone would kill me.

Pizza's rule: Lie to win, lie to save a lost game, lie to amuse yourself, lie when you're caught lying, lie like a rug, and lie some more. Lie, lie, lie, always lie.

Also, I need to get into my supposed invulnerability this game.

I left DaveShack undefended for about half of the game, in total. Dead serious. He was also known to every single mafia Don, including the Barzini, the Pentangeli, the Corleone, all my rivals, and by a certain round, everyone in the game. Nobody ever took a shot at him. He also forgot to protect me a few times from the lynch. He could have been threatened, lynched, or sweet-talked but few if any made the attempt. He kept protecting me because nobody else would talk to him for the first how many phases of the game, and I got him two lynch stoppages back to back, part of his win conditions. I think Renata was one of the few who ever said hello to him. A lot of what I did was possible because I had no one else bothering to try very hard to do what I was doing; such as organizing groups. Fubbleskag and sturmhauke and a few others get credit for the attempt, but where were our veteran players? A vacuum of power, I just expanded to fill in the void.

Further, I ordered hits on myself and relied on others to defend me, after publicly declaring both pre-game and during the game that I was openly neutral and willing to help anyone, read: willing to help turn townies into wiseguys. Someone should have pulled protection on me one of those half dozen times I ordered my own death. I would have been vulnerable or gone. Also, I stepped down as Director so Renata could get in her shot, if someone had used the tactic I used all game long, which was double-hitting "lucky" people I'd be dead right now. Niklas and whoever else was disloyal like I dunno Diana, Double A, Hero..... you had your shot to remove me.

If folks declined to join the DeCavalcante/Clemenza after I became Don, then I would have also been screwed. I risked a sure win on becoming Capo, which I did not originally set out to become, solely for the purposes of taking risks and having fun. I had zero need to risk a win on becoming a mafia Don, and I grabbed Neri and Krill and formed my own family. If others didn't join, I would just have lost the game. I also was the face of everything bad that was happening to virtually every faction; everyone wanted me dead, and blocking the lawyer and then lynching me was possible, and attempted.

Anyway, I acted like I was invincible but I was not, and I believe people bought into the propaganda. The block the lawyer plan was particularly genius, because I had absolutely no defense against that and never formulated a plan to counter it. It was my achilles' heel, and it nearly got me even after I thought we had a perfectly won position. I was wrong, we were outnumbered. Inactivity strikes again. Renata, Niklas, everyone almost gave me my comeuppance. Well played. So very close.

My plan for this game was to be naughty, pure and simple. Try to get contacts in every family, promote people to Made. Make sure the mafia knew I was their ally, while messing with the town groups. I would be the mole on the inside. That was the idea anyway.

I was also trying to play kingmaker, and promote someone of my choosing to become Capo, chosen very very early on or even before the game started.

My apprentices were Seon, Ironside, Renata, God Emperor, Secura, LazyMcCrow, considered a few others. Seon, Ironside, and Secura ended up becoming incorruptible townies or otherwise incapable of going mafia, and Renata was already a Made and not especially interested in being my plaything, so I left her be.

Lazy of course ended up being the Serial Killer. He also "became wiseguy" and "became Made" too late for me to plausibly convince anyone to make him Don. God Emperor died.

I gave up control of the groups, both town and mafia, halfway through the game. Watched them play for a bit, only asking Nightbringer to cover Diana, since people assumed she was in the heart of my organization. I actually kept her at arms' length, she was little more than just another Made to me, but I figured she'd be attacked so I kept her covered when I could. After about 5 rounds or so with no real attempts by anyone to grab power, I decided to shake things up a little and start a mafia war. I pitted the Stracchi against the Corleones, and made it look like I was not involved.

That weakened that family, which was less affiliated with me than the others. Then, I blocked the follow-up attacks on the Corleone to convince them I was just trying to stop threats to my friends, and that if they would not attack the Stracchi, they'd be okay. Well, it took some convincing but we pacified them, and then we followed up with another assault.

We also took out loose ends like Chaotix and the unaligned wiseguys, because they were wildcards and potential rivals. Maybe that was a mistake, maybe it wasn't. But they died and I felt we were safer for it.

I felt someone would make a grab for power at the end and I wanted to be their final stumbling block, I put myself in as the Don of a three person family and set out to recruit whoever I could. I snagged the Stracchi and the Cunio one by one. I guess nobody else was trying to do that.

The Stracchi wanted Diana as Don..... and if she became Don, her family would have dwarfed mine and she would have won or outlasted me at the very least. NO WAY would I become Capo. Sorry baby, I was a little bit faster than you were on that power grab. You had it in your hands, my love.

Renata and the Corleone were the other safe bet for the winning family. I did not believe they would accept me as Don, and since myself, the Cunio, and the Stracchi overpowered her, I felt to become a Made under Renata was to surrender needlessly to someone who hadn't quite beaten me.

Anyway. I knew going for Capo would be a risk... folks aren't always trustworthy and several Clemenza tried to overthrow me in the process, classical hero, Diana Abnoba, at the very least. Sprig was in until he started telling everyone his plans to betray each family... so he was out as well.

I did one thing right which was sniffing out insurrections very quickly. Most everyone who tried to bring me down died in very short order, unless I didn't consider them an immediate threat like the doctors.

My prediction that the doctors/surgeons were not the main targets, that we could ignore them, was somewhat correct. They did become a problem once they were surgeon and we needed to keep making kills to advance the game. Their protections cost me the lives of several folks. A risk I was willing to take, one I didn't need to take once we controlled the vote, but I didn't want to drag out the game.

A doctor or surgeon who is outvoted is powerless. That's why the town position is inferior, in my opinion... their most powerful forces do not hold a candle to the power of the mafia, man for man. They can only win by outvoting us.

The lynch attempts on me D7 and D8 wasted just enough time to give the mafia the majority or close to it, and the town was fairly doomed from there, unless they allied with the Barzini/Pentangeli/Corleone, anyone who would listen.

The resistance to the Stracchi/Cunio was always divided enough to be conquered. A more united resistance would have beaten them. Eventually they became the Clemenza family as a truly united force... they were kept in check by the Pentangeli who did a good job resisting but they needed doctor protection. Town should have helped the Pentangeli bring us down. Then they should have done the same for the Corleone. The resistance needed to be mafia goons at that point, but town didn't seem to trust mafia goons.

I mentioned at one point that the townies needed to turn to places and people they never thought they should, in order to win the game. I referred to the Corleone and Pentangeli. They needed to make a deal with the lesser of evils to remove the greater of evils, that may or may not have happened, but I didn't see it happen. I thought I did at one point but it could have just been a glitch, there was no follow-through.

I think I owe Crazed Rabbit an apology; he may not have leaked my info. He did try to oppose me and bring me down shortly thereafter, and when word of that got back to me, that's when I decided to pull the plug on him. But the initial accusation may have been incorrect. That said, I still needed to kill him at that point. But he wasn't the villain there I don't think. He admitted to doing nothing at night and he also sent messages trying to convince people to turn against me, but perhaps only after I thought he was a turncoat.

I don't know, I don't have full info. What I do know is that shortly after I gave him all my info, the Stracchi and Cunio started getting attacked and even accused of being what they were. So I felt it was CR, but didn't have conclusive proof, so I let him live and offered him chances to prove himself through murder. Then he chose not to murder and tried to bring me down, so I had him killed.

Gave him my best writeup, because his efforts, GH's, sturmhaukes, and several others who really, really tried to oppose me made the game for me. If there was no resistance this would have been quite boring. Thank you to everyone who actually gave an effort, even when all hope seemed lost.

Those final rounds, anti-Pizza votes should have been in the majority or near it, enough where if all my people didn't show up, we lost the lynch and the game. More activity on the town's part would have won the game. Unity, as well.

That was the final chance to get us, really. The Clemenza-allied showed up to play, not everyone opposed did. So we made it through because I was a tiebreaker, another reason to be Director.

Probably will have more coherent thoughts when I've had sleep, but wanted to dump this out there for whoever cared.

**Askthepizzaguy** · 12-03-2011, 11:14

There was a lot of interesting chat logs which obviously the audience doesn't get to see, but here's one where after the Stracchi attack the Corleones the first time, I protect them and make peace. Now they approach me and start making demands.

So this is the chatlog wherein the Corleones play hardball with me.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

11/14/2011	12:37:03 PM	Niklas @ CFC	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	hey winston :)
11/14/2011	12:37:15 PM	Backwards Logic @ CFC	Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	Winston, what the heck. You're dead.
11/14/2011	12:37:28 PM	Backwards Logic @ CFC	Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	Where were your defensive hobos?
11/14/2011	12:38:12 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	Sorry, I was drinking whiskey
11/14/2011	12:38:30 PM	Backwards Logic @ CFC	Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	that's a fairly good reason actually
11/14/2011	12:39:56 PM	Winston Hughes @ CFC	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Renata	oh good, you're planning my defeat
11/14/2011	12:40:05 PM	Winston Hughes @ CFC	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Renata	:P
11/14/2011	12:40:09 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	Yes, we've already buried you and moved on
11/14/2011	12:40:15 PM	Backwards Logic @ CFC	Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	Due to our losses, I feel as though the Stracchi have us my the balls a bit.
11/14/2011	12:49:47 PM	Niklas @ CFC	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	I actually agree with Pizza here, I see no reason to let Scotty survive the day
11/14/2011	12:49:55 PM	Backwards Logic @ CFC	Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	pffft
11/14/2011	12:49:58 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	You want dead doctors, yes?
11/14/2011	12:50:11 PM	Backwards Logic @ CFC	Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	And leaving Seon and his cronies around to screw up ust talking down the Stracchi's
11/14/2011	12:50:12 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	we can have everyone gang-stomp them tonight
11/14/2011	12:50:30 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	You're talking a bit like captain Ahab over there, BL
11/14/2011	12:50:35 PM	Niklas @ CFC	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	"Seon and his cronies" are now too few to cover everyone now
11/14/2011	12:51:05 PM	Backwards Logic @ CFC	Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	He has what, three, four docs still?
11/14/2011	12:51:14 PM	Backwards Logic @ CFC	Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	it's enough to cause his version of chaos
11/14/2011	12:51:23 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	not really
11/14/2011	12:51:35 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	he cannot stop the lynch
11/14/2011	12:51:42 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	and we can accomplish everything we need to with that
11/14/2011	12:51:44 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	Scotty dies
11/14/2011	12:51:59 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	if Seon were silly enough to protect Gamez tonight, he'd pay for it with a doctor's life
11/14/2011	12:52:07 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	we simply gang up on the doctors tonight
11/14/2011	12:52:11 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	force them to self-protect
11/14/2011	12:52:15 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	then someone hits Gamez
11/14/2011	12:52:22 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	if they protect gamez, a doctor dies instead
11/14/2011	12:52:28 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	then we lynch gamez tomorrow
11/14/2011	12:52:32 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	it's like the hit went through
11/14/2011	12:52:37 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	*Seon cannot* stop us**
11/14/2011	12:52:57 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	Trust me. I know how to plan an attack.
11/14/2011	12:52:58 PM	Backwards Logic @ CFC	Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	Or, they don't be all predictable
11/14/2011	12:53:07 PM	Backwards Logic @ CFC	Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	and protect who they want
11/14/2011	12:53:23 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	and then they die en masse
11/14/2011	12:53:26 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	even better
11/14/2011	12:53:37 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	I like your thinking.
11/14/2011	12:53:38 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	:D
11/14/2011	12:53:44 PM	Backwards Logic @ CFC	Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	My point is: I want the Stracchi dead tonight
11/14/2011	12:53:50 PM	Backwards Logic @ CFC	Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	that means: attacking THEM
11/14/2011	12:54:09 PM	Backwards Logic @ CFC	Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	Because right now, if I'm in there camp, I'm sensing an opportunity to crush the Corelone
11/14/2011	12:54:25 PM	Backwards Logic @ CFC	Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	We're lost three guys in the last two nights
11/14/2011	12:54:44 PM	Backwards Logic @ CFC	Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	I'm not about to continue to concede initiative to them
11/14/2011	12:55:00 PM	Backwards Logic @ CFC	Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	Unlike you, I think the STracchi are the biggest threat, not scottish
11/14/2011	12:55:07 PM	Backwards Logic @ CFC	Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	they can kill multiples of us
11/14/2011	12:55:12 PM	Backwards Logic @ CFC	Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	scottish only one
11/14/2011	12:55:16 PM	Backwards Logic @ CFC	Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	and that's if he scanned us
11/14/2011	12:55:24 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	no, not if he scanned us
11/14/2011	12:55:27 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	hes not a rogue
11/14/2011	12:55:28 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	he's a Don
11/14/2011	12:55:35 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	he kills whoever he pleases
11/14/2011	12:55:51 PM	Backwards Logic @ CFC	Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	Don who?
11/14/2011	12:55:57 PM	Renata	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC	Pentangeli
11/14/2011	12:55:59 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	face
11/14/2011	12:56:00 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	palm
11/14/2011	12:56:10 PM	Renata	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC	you should read the thread once in a while innocent look
11/14/2011	12:56:11 PM	Backwards Logic @ CFC	Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	whatever, point still stands
11/14/2011	12:56:22 PM	Backwards Logic @ CFC	Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	I don'thave time to read a thousand pages
11/14/2011	12:56:26 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	Point still stands on your head.
11/14/2011	12:56:37 PM	Renata	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC	seriously, though --
11/14/2011	12:56:45 PM	Renata	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC	the stracchi are taking a don vote today, correct?
11/14/2011	12:56:52 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	yes
11/14/2011	12:56:55 PM	Renata	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC	and it will fail
11/14/2011	12:57:01 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	and not only that, they're disrupting it on my orders
11/14/2011	12:57:05 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	they plan on joining us
11/14/2011	12:57:16 PM	Renata	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC	they're going to a bit discombobulated
11/14/2011	12:57:20 PM	Renata	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC	who is "they"?
11/14/2011	12:57:20 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	BL's little plan ignores the largest threat AND jeopardizes the entire alliance.
11/14/2011	12:57:27 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	I want no part of it
11/14/2011	12:57:29 PM	Backwards Logic @ CFC	Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	Mades can still attack though
11/14/2011	12:57:32 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	veto, veto veto
11/14/2011	12:57:37 PM	Renata	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC	wait, slow down
11/14/2011	12:57:41 PM	Backwards Logic @ CFC	Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	We're killing the guys we're going to kil anyway!
11/14/2011	12:57:44 PM	Renata	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC	one step at a time
11/14/2011	12:57:48 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	precisely.
11/14/2011	12:57:50 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	One step at a time
11/14/2011	12:58:10 PM	Niklas @ CFC	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	BL's plan has good and bad parts
11/14/2011	12:58:26 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	and naughty parts.
11/14/2011	12:58:35 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	mmmmm
11/14/2011	12:58:38 PM	Niklas @ CFC	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	the part about leaving Scotty alive is BAD
11/14/2011	12:58:53 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	so is the strike against the Stracchi tonight
11/14/2011	12:58:53 PM	Niklas @ CFC	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	the part about killing superfluous mades is good
11/14/2011	12:58:57 PM	Niklas @ CFC	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	why?
11/14/2011	12:59:00 PM	Renata	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC	and i actually lean toward agreeing on scottishranger (with pizza, that is, that he should die). there's no saying who he attacks next. and odds, are whoever it is -- whether "stracchi" or corleone -- it won't be someone like jarema or double A
11/14/2011	12:59:04 PM	Renata	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC	because that's no fun
11/14/2011	12:59:12 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	exactly
11/14/2011	12:59:17 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	I'll tell you why.
11/14/2011	1:00:01 PM	Renata	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC	i need convincing on that too
11/14/2011	1:00:05 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	I want to see Diana and Lazy added to the Gambino
11/14/2011	1:00:16 PM	Backwards Logic @ CFC	Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	Duh. They don't get attacked
11/14/2011	1:00:25 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	it will be harder to convince them to trust us if we killed off their peeps before they even joined us
11/14/2011	1:00:26 PM	Niklas @ CFC	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	yes, that's a given
11/14/2011	1:00:31 PM	Backwards Logic @ CFC	Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	Uh, no
11/14/2011	1:00:39 PM	Backwards Logic @ CFC	Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	their only chance at winning will be to join us
11/14/2011	1:00:43 PM	Niklas @ CFC	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	they should of course be in on the plan
11/14/2011	1:00:57 PM	Niklas @ CFC	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	don't they already know that they are the only ones of the Stracchi to be invited in this?
11/14/2011	1:01:15 PM	Backwards Logic @ CFC	Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	exactly
11/14/2011	1:01:16 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	they're under the impression others might join as well
11/14/2011	1:01:22 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	its a delicate process
11/14/2011	1:01:23 PM	Backwards Logic @ CFC	Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	oh, goody
11/14/2011	1:01:25 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	you're bleeping it up
11/14/2011	1:01:35 PM	Backwards Logic @ CFC	Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	Nope, I'm giving them a clear choice
11/14/2011	1:01:38 PM	Backwards Logic @ CFC	Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	join us and win
11/14/2011	1:01:42 PM	Backwards Logic @ CFC	Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	or don't and die
11/14/2011	1:01:46 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	you're hardly in a position to dictate terms
11/14/2011	1:01:46 PM	Backwards Logic @ CFC	Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	pretty simple
11/14/2011	1:01:53 PM	Renata	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC	don't remind us
11/14/2011	1:01:58 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	I already told you why I hate this idea
11/14/2011	1:01:59 PM	Niklas @ CFC	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	well, that's the problem, isn't it?
11/14/2011	1:02:05 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	I can veto it with or without you
11/14/2011	1:02:15 PM	Niklas @ CFC	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	pizza, don't go there
11/14/2011	1:02:19 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	but if I veto it without you, that makes this whole alliance thing rather awkward
11/14/2011	1:02:25 PM	Niklas @ CFC	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	if you have good arguments, give them
11/14/2011	1:02:26 PM	Renata	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC	i'm really conscious right now of what you said to (I think) winston yesterday about it being very uncomfortable to negotiation from weakness
11/14/2011	1:02:30 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	I'd rather you not be so stubborn
11/14/2011	1:02:34 PM	Renata	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC	negotiate*
11/14/2011	1:02:50 PM	Niklas @ CFC	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	if you don't have good arguments, why should we use your plan in the first place?
11/14/2011	1:03:33 PM	Renata	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC	i wasn't aware that diana and lazy weren't fully informed of what was going on, though
11/14/2011	1:03:53 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	it's easier to make their choices for them
11/14/2011	1:03:58 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	once they're part of the gambino
11/14/2011	1:04:02 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	and THEN their allies die
11/14/2011	1:04:07 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	what choice do they have?
11/14/2011	1:04:34 PM	Backwards Logic @ CFC	Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	And, what happens if Beskar and co decide: "You know what, the Corelone look pretty weak right now. Let's kill them."
11/14/2011	1:04:48 PM	Renata	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC	they'd be stupid not to attack us tonight
11/14/2011	1:04:52 PM	Niklas @ CFC	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	that's a valid concern
11/14/2011	1:04:53 PM	Backwards Logic @ CFC	Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	exactly
11/14/2011	1:04:58 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	Oh give me a break
11/14/2011	1:05:03 PM	Backwards Logic @ CFC	Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	NO
11/14/2011	1:05:17 PM	Backwards Logic @ CFC	Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	Start actually listening to us for a change
11/14/2011	1:05:43 PM	Backwards Logic @ CFC	Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	We have concerns
11/14/2011	1:05:48 PM	Backwards Logic @ CFC	Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	you're not addressing them
11/14/2011	1:06:01 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	So do I, and I did address them YESTERDAY when Renata and I HAD THIS DISCUSSION
11/14/2011	1:06:15 PM	Backwards Logic @ CFC	Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	Oh, before Winston was dead, huh?
11/14/2011	1:06:23 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	Stop blaming me for that.
11/14/2011	1:06:26 PM	Backwards Logic @ CFC	Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	I didn't
11/14/2011	1:06:28 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	Seriously
11/14/2011	1:06:35 PM	Backwards Logic @ CFC	Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	I'm pointing out things have changed
11/14/2011	1:06:45 PM	Backwards Logic @ CFC	Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	the stalemate is starting to look lopsided
11/14/2011	1:06:54 PM	Backwards Logic @ CFC	Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	and the Stracchi have to see that
11/14/2011	1:08:53 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	Look, I'm willing to compromise a little
11/14/2011	1:09:00 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	but you guys had better listen to my concerns as well
11/14/2011	1:09:15 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	I'm representing more than just myself in this conversation, so dont gang up on me
11/14/2011	1:09:26 PM	Niklas @ CFC	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	a plan that everyone agrees on is definitely preferable
11/14/2011	1:09:48 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	You had an idea to deal with Scotty
11/14/2011	1:09:54 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	that idea could work on Beskar
11/14/2011	1:09:56 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	further
11/14/2011	1:10:05 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	You're not the only one who sees Beskar for what he is
11/14/2011	1:10:10 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	the Stracchi see it as well
11/14/2011	1:10:13 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	Diana, Lazy, etc
11/14/2011	1:10:19 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	I could get permission to whack him
11/14/2011	1:10:43 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	But unless I get that, we do throw this back into war mode if we just attack the Stracchi carte blance
11/14/2011	1:10:53 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	precisely for the same balance of power horse dooky that you're concerned with
11/14/2011	1:11:12 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	MY concern is getting the Corleone Don dead and the gambino formed before we do anything stupid like continue the war
11/14/2011	1:11:26 PM	Backwards Logic @ CFC	Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	My plan involves us acting like the new family now
11/14/2011	1:11:31 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	So does mine.
11/14/2011	1:11:40 PM	Backwards Logic @ CFC	Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	since so far, I haven't really seen it outside of a few dead lucas
11/14/2011	1:12:13 PM	Backwards Logic @ CFC	Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	Your plan leaves the Coreleone open to attack
11/14/2011	1:12:15 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	I guess I was right, Renata.
11/14/2011	1:12:17 PM	Backwards Logic @ CFC	Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	I don't like that
11/14/2011	1:12:24 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	I told you all about this yesterday
11/14/2011	1:12:28 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	they will never trust me.
11/14/2011	1:12:30 PM	Backwards Logic @ CFC	Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	hense why I have this dea instead
11/14/2011	1:12:30 PM	Renata	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC	yeah
11/14/2011	1:12:32 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	Thats why this fails.
11/14/2011	1:12:40 PM	Renata	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC	it's not about trust
11/14/2011	1:12:41 PM	Renata	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC	really
11/14/2011	1:12:42 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	I'm sorry.
11/14/2011	1:12:47 PM	Backwards Logic @ CFC	Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	it's not trust toward you
11/14/2011	1:12:52 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	I can't have terms dictated to me any more than you can.
11/14/2011	1:13:00 PM	Backwards Logic @ CFC	Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	it's trusting the STracchi to not attack us
11/14/2011	1:13:02 PM	Renata	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC	that was almost entirely my problem, and i'm over it
11/14/2011	1:13:10 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	I'm willing to give you beskar and I'm willing to have him blocked
11/14/2011	1:13:13 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	but I know the Stracchi
11/14/2011	1:13:18 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	and I know them very well
11/14/2011	1:13:19 PM	Niklas @ CFC	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	pizza, now you're trying to make it emotional, don't do that please
11/14/2011	1:13:28 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	they are not a threat to you
11/14/2011	1:13:31 PM	Niklas @ CFC	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	I think we're about to reach a good plan here
11/14/2011	1:13:34 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	they want to join you
11/14/2011	1:13:44 PM	Renata	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC	personally i don't even know if i care about beskar anymore, dead or alive
11/14/2011	1:14:03 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	What I'm saying is I cannot in good conscience allow the Stracchi to die en masse tonight
11/14/2011	1:14:07 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	we form the Gambino
11/14/2011	1:14:09 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	then it's fine
11/14/2011	1:14:15 PM	Niklas @ CFC	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	I need to head off and have dinner - please don't kill each other in my absence, will you?
11/14/2011	1:14:25 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	It's the same argument you're giving me now
11/14/2011	1:14:27 PM	Renata	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC	better make it quick :)
11/14/2011	1:14:29 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	a balance of power concern
11/14/2011	1:14:38 PM	Renata	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC	concern for whom, though?
11/14/2011	1:14:45 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	My butt and the Cunio's
11/14/2011	1:14:45 PM	Renata	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC	we're primarly concerned about winding up dead
11/14/2011	1:15:01 PM	Backwards Logic @ CFC	Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	Well, here's the thing
11/14/2011	1:15:02 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	no stracchi means we lose if you dont accept us
11/14/2011	1:15:06 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	I'm concerned about betrayal
11/14/2011	1:15:13 PM	Backwards Logic @ CFC	Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	The Corelone cannot hop eto go against the STracchi and Cunnio together
11/14/2011	1:15:21 PM	Backwards Logic @ CFC	Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	We can't betray you and win
11/14/2011	1:15:25 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	no, but if you get my permission to whack the Stracchi
11/14/2011	1:15:30 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	all of a sudden you have all the power
11/14/2011	1:15:35 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	I'm not a fool
11/14/2011	1:15:36 PM	Backwards Logic @ CFC	Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	we don't have the numbers to, even if we wanted to
11/14/2011	1:15:59 PM	Backwards Logic @ CFC	Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	What'll happen is we'll all kill ourselves
11/14/2011	1:16:03 PM	Backwards Logic @ CFC	Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	and the townies will win
11/14/2011	1:16:07 PM	Backwards Logic @ CFC	Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	not good
11/14/2011	1:16:12 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	but thats not what you're proposing
11/14/2011	1:16:21 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	you're proposing me being in on the Stracchi's demise
11/14/2011	1:16:23 PM	Backwards Logic @ CFC	Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	No, you're taking the plan a step too far
11/14/2011	1:16:25 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	therefore it has a chance of success
11/14/2011	1:16:35 PM	Renata	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC	? i don't see what you're getting at
11/14/2011	1:16:36 PM	Backwards Logic @ CFC	Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	You're assuming we're going to betray you
11/14/2011	1:16:41 PM	Backwards Logic @ CFC	Niklas @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	that's not the case
11/14/2011	1:16:42 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	Always assume that.
11/14/2011	1:16:57 PM			Niklas @ CFC has left the conversation.
11/14/2011	1:17:02 PM	Backwards Logic @ CFC	Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	we're just assuring ourselves - the Corelone - that the STracchi can't dop anything themselves against us.
11/14/2011	1:17:03 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	I'm playing for a compromise victory in spite of that
11/14/2011	1:17:17 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	You lost that battle already! They could have wiped you last night
11/14/2011	1:17:24 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	they dont intend to
11/14/2011	1:17:34 PM	Renata	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC	gee, thanks for rubbing it in :(
11/14/2011	1:17:37 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	I'm not
11/14/2011	1:17:52 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	I might be blunt but it's not to gloat, its to point out this is wrong
11/14/2011	1:18:21 PM	Backwards Logic @ CFC	Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	Well, they can still kill us tonight
11/14/2011	1:18:27 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	They can.
11/14/2011	1:18:33 PM	Backwards Logic @ CFC	Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	they could have attacked yesterday, sure
11/14/2011	1:18:39 PM	Backwards Logic @ CFC	Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	but we've since lost two people
11/14/2011	1:18:49 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	You want their quicktopic, don't you?
11/14/2011	1:18:57 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	You want to see their true intentions
11/14/2011	1:19:10 PM	Backwards Logic @ CFC	Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	it's not a stretch to think they 1) kill our Don and 2) kill a few other mades to force the remnants to either 1) fight them or 2) join them
11/14/2011	1:19:29 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	their Don is dead, and they're in on joining the Corleone
11/14/2011	1:19:35 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	for them to attack you know is retarded
11/14/2011	1:19:39 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	now*
11/14/2011	1:19:53 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	It undermines everything they've done
11/14/2011	1:19:57 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	and they know I don't approve
11/14/2011	1:20:02 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	I've stopped them 4 times already
11/14/2011	1:20:17 PM	Backwards Logic @ CFC	Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	four times! If that's not telling I don't know what is
11/14/2011	1:20:31 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	It SHOULD tell you where I stand and what I'm capable of
11/14/2011	1:20:43 PM	Backwards Logic @ CFC	Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	It also tell me they want us dead for real
11/14/2011	1:20:54 PM	Backwards Logic @ CFC	Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	and they might ignore you that fifth time
11/14/2011	1:21:21 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	Look, I hate to be the voice of reason here
11/14/2011	1:21:46 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	But what you're arguing essentially is that you're afraid the Stracchi will use this moment of weakness and destroy you for selfish gain
11/14/2011	1:22:10 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	And what I'm arguing is the same thing with the families reversed, is the situation which will occur if I sanction multiple stracchi hits tonight
11/14/2011	1:22:15 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	And I hate it as much as you do
11/14/2011	1:22:39 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	But I know these guys, and I know they won't be hitting you tonight
11/14/2011	1:22:48 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	they've done as I suggested over and over again
11/14/2011	1:23:03 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	they're re-forming their family, they wont have a new Don, and they'll be trying to join you
11/14/2011	1:23:19 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	If that's not good enough, then this alliance just doesnt work
11/14/2011	1:23:24 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	because it lacks trust
11/14/2011	1:23:31 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	sorry
11/14/2011	1:23:56 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	I'm not ignoring your concerns, I share them
11/14/2011	1:24:08 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	But I also won't concede to reverse positions with you for no reason
11/14/2011	1:24:21 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	and I wont' toss our plan in jeopardy just because you're afraid
11/14/2011	1:24:28 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	unfortunately you seem to be willing to.
11/14/2011	1:24:41 PM	Renata	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC	that's not fair, pizza
11/14/2011	1:25:00 PM	Renata	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC	if you really didn't want to put us in this position, you shouldn't have killed off sprig and sigurd
11/14/2011	1:25:11 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	Sprig?!?
11/14/2011	1:25:11 PM	Backwards Logic @ CFC	Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	^ I was about to hit on that
11/14/2011	1:25:17 PM	Backwards Logic @ CFC	Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	Sigurd mostly
11/14/2011	1:25:20 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	Sigurd was a commie
11/14/2011	1:25:22 PM	Renata	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC	yes, sprig, too
11/14/2011	1:25:27 PM	Renata	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC	no kidding. he was killing for us though
11/14/2011	1:25:28 PM	Backwards Logic @ CFC	Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	No, Sigurd was a Corleone
11/14/2011	1:25:31 PM	Renata	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC	and sprig probably would have
11/14/2011	1:25:45 PM	Backwards Logic @ CFC	Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	he may have been a commie
11/14/2011	1:25:52 PM	Renata	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC	of all the cunio mades he was most likely to ditch them and join us outright, if asked
11/14/2011	1:25:58 PM	Backwards Logic @ CFC	Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	but you chose to kill him over say, Scottish, or another doc
11/14/2011	1:26:37 PM	Backwards Logic @ CFC	Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	In trust ATPG, there's give and take. All the Corelone have done is take it on the chin for the last three nights. We want that to change.
11/14/2011	1:26:39 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	We've already been over this.
11/14/2011	1:26:43 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	We're going in circles
11/14/2011	1:26:46 PM	Renata	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC	we sucked that up and dealt with it, for the sake of this alliance. and believe me i know you're risking a lot also. but if your goal was for us not to be afraid ,you should have made other plans
11/14/2011	1:27:11 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	I trusted you last night not to hit the Stracchi
11/14/2011	1:27:13 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	you could have
11/14/2011	1:27:21 PM	Renata	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC	sure
11/14/2011	1:27:31 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	I am risking exactly the same as you
11/14/2011	1:27:38 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	and I dont think you appreciate that
11/14/2011	1:27:44 PM	Renata	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC	no, i do
11/14/2011	1:27:49 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	I'm not convinced.
11/14/2011	1:28:36 PM	Renata	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC	it's just i think your position now, if you'd been planning betrayal, is distinctly stronger than ours would be. that wasnt true a couple of nights ago.
11/14/2011	1:28:42 PM	Renata	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC	and i forgot where i'm trying to go with that
11/14/2011	1:28:48 PM	Backwards Logic @ CFC	Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	^ I can see
11/14/2011	1:28:54 PM	Renata	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC	oh yeah, it's not fun to negotiate from weakness :(
11/14/2011	1:29:44 PM	Renata	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC	that's the one thing you told winston that really resonated with me, that you didn't want to feel the corleones were the winners and we were only graciously allowing you to tag along.
11/14/2011	1:29:50 PM	Renata	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC	brb phone
11/14/2011	1:30:01 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	There's no middle ground here between trust and distrust. You've either got to trust me or we need to drop the facade.
11/14/2011	1:30:08 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	That said, there IS a middle ground on other things
11/14/2011	1:30:12 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	such as compromise
11/14/2011	1:30:27 PM	Renata	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC	again, it's not really about trust
11/14/2011	1:30:29 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	What if I sanctioned a hit on at least one Stracchi tonight, from you guys
11/14/2011	1:30:39 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	but not your whole family going ape dookie on them
11/14/2011	1:30:46 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	and you get to pick the target
11/14/2011	1:30:52 PM	Backwards Logic @ CFC	Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	hmmm
11/14/2011	1:30:54 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	is that reasonable?
11/14/2011	1:31:03 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	and you can block Beskar if you're concerned
11/14/2011	1:31:07 PM	Backwards Logic @ CFC	Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	I think that seems legit
11/14/2011	1:31:08 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	kill him too if you like
11/14/2011	1:31:19 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	I recognize what you've lost
11/14/2011	1:31:22 PM	Renata	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC	you like, BL?
11/14/2011	1:31:28 PM	Backwards Logic @ CFC	Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	yea, I can do that
11/14/2011	1:31:33 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	and I recognize that you're trying to work it out.
11/14/2011	1:31:45 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	I also appreciate you don't want to feel like you're forced into this
11/14/2011	1:32:07 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	That said, the end of a war and a peace solution often involves muscle-flexing
11/14/2011	1:32:15 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	especially when negotiating on where the final borders lie
11/14/2011	1:32:24 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	You don't want to give up everything at the bargaining table
11/14/2011	1:32:25 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	nor do I
11/14/2011	1:32:31 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	so, either extreme fails
11/14/2011	1:32:35 PM	Ask thepizzaguy	Backwards Logic @ CFC, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	But this works.
11/14/2011	1:32:41 PM	Backwards Logic @ CFC	Ask thepizzaguy, Winston Hughes @ CFC, Renata	yea, I'm okay with this

The end result is a happy compromise wherein the Corleone get to attack classical hero, so they don't feel threatened by the Stracchi. What ended up happening is they pull back the hit on classical because they realize if Scottish dies and the mafia are too few, it's game over and the townies win because there's no Don and the townies outnumber the mafia. This plus the Corleone quicktopics make me realize Backwards Logic and GamezRule were gunning for my head pretty much the entire time. Yikes and a half....

"Your Corleone pals, uh, they're not bad people. Maybe we, uh, outta give them a couple of days to think it over."

[shakes head]

"No?"

[looks surprised]

"Grease 'em now? Well, OK. You are a vicious man Backwards Logic, and, uh, I'm glad you're dead!"

The Joker- Batman(1989)

**Askthepizzaguy** · 12-03-2011, 11:22

In summary of the above:

This game was not a happy love-fest filled with sunshine and trust and friendship. There was a lot of power struggle, diplomacy, threats, and bargaining happening which you folks could not see.

The Corleones and others who people seemed to assume were my pawns were anything but that. You guys have no idea how much resistance I actually had, because we put on a good public show of unity against the town. Behind the scenes, it was treachery, cloak, and dagger. Nobody trusted anyone.

Just as it should be.

**Chaotix** · 12-03-2011, 12:19

Now that the game is over, you can believe me:

I really wasn't going to rebel against you that last time until I heard from Niklas you were trying to kill me anyway. I had sent in orders that night saying "switch my allegience to Clemenza". Before then I had been Pentangeli, but I wasn't working or coordinating with scottish - just keeping him from doing his solo kills, and leaving the option open for the Pentangeli plan that we eventually decided against.

But when I got the PM from Niklas, at that point I said to myself, "well, if he wants me dead, there's no point in just waiting to die," so I assisted Renata and Niklas in organizing that entire resistance, all in that one night. It wasn't planned in advance.

And I would've got away with it too, if it weren't for that meddling Double A...

That said, I am ultimately satisfied with the game experience. Even if victory was within grasp and snatched away, the character I played had a story that played out very poetically, all the way to the end. I started out as a basic townie, wanted to form my own family and become Capo - unable to put together my own group, I joined Sasaki's vig group, unknowing he was already the lone Pentangeli Made - kept contact with ATPG, constantly trying to play both sides off each other (more often trying to survive and pick the right side) - ultimately betrayed the Pentangeli on the very night I became a Made - learned I was being given a traitor's reward, and went out fighting instead. I intended to keep the "King of Hearts" red suit motif whether or not the Pentangeli actually survived, just as a stylistic choice and to distinguish myself from the rest of ATPG's goons.

Anyway, the ride there was as important as the end result for me.

Good game, ATPG.

And excellent hosting to GH and issaikhaan, as well as Seamus in the early-mid game before he had to leave. The game would not have been possible without you.

**Askthepizzaguy** · 12-03-2011, 12:24

Well Chaotix, I truly wanted to believe you were loyal to us... it's just that you went from wanting to be Don of your own family, to allying with/betraying the Pentangeli, to transforming yourself into one of "my goons".

I just didn't buy the transformation. Once a Don, always a Don. You wanted to be Don, so I assumed you were a massive threat. And you were, once I assumed you were a massive threat. Self-fulfilling prophecy I suppose.

Sorry, truly sorry about getting it wrong about you. One can't ever be too careful. My paranoia served me so well last time...

Maybe someday I'll join you and serve you loyally and then you can forgive me for being a paranoid, backstabbing vicious little gremlin.

Good game all, thanks a billion to the game hosts. Nobody would have gotten to see any sort of resolution to the game without you, and Palpatine's plans would still be on the drawing board.

**Askthepizzaguy** · 12-03-2011, 12:50

I'd like to respond to this one publicly:

Originally Posted by someone in PM

I bet you're feeling like a man who has just been retired from a job he loved right now!

I disliked certain stretches of this game.... organizing groups was a pain in the butt, but more than that, I hated actually having to betray folks like Renata and so forth, to stay true to the character I chose to play. I needed to make those legitimate moves to accomplish what I set out to do, but they made me feel like a soulless, unrepentant, irredeemable blankety-blank. I felt like a hero in Capo III. Here, I feel like a guy who sold out his own mother. I guess that means I can play the part.... but it's just icky to me. I did more underhanded things in this game than all other games combined that I've played in, I think.

Also, while some may assume I feel pride at "my" accomplishment, I did virtually nothing in this game but ask people to do favors for me, and then asked others to do favors back. I barely did any kills, didn't protect anyone, and was generally told what I needed to know rather than having to go hunt for it myself (though I did deduce who a lot of people were on my own, roughly half). This was a team effort, I was just playing the quarterback position, or even a coach, this time. I went information hunting and used it to assist others, and myself.

I got as far as I did on the cooperation of others, their hard work, their kills, their protections, their votes, their loyalty. Any one of them fails to show up and all of a sudden I'm not Capo. This "Capo" thing is a great prize to strive for but everyone must realize that no one becomes Capo on their own merits. It's a consensus, elected position basically. I managed to convince a few folks that whatever leadership and organizing I did was noteworthy. But I never would have gotten here without literally dozens and dozens of other people, some of whom got betrayed and/or left behind.

They deserve acknowledgement. I didn't accomplish jack squat on my own, and I would not be Capo without each and every person who saved my life in one of the more recent rounds, and those who spared me on many rounds prior. And of course, without the lawyer role, I'd be long dead too. I'm very very tired and glad the game has resolved, actually. I would have welcomed my death in the latter rounds just so it looked like I tried hard but fell just a little short, as long as it ended the game. 117 players is too many...

What a marathon it was just to get there, let alone organize groups, negotiate, do long writeups.... all to justify my existence. At least others could say "I killed players A, B, C, and D, so I deserve to win!" What did I have? I needed to do everything else possible to say I was pulling my weight.

I learned from this game that people will accept you as their Don if you work very hard.... but if you come up short in almost any way, they want you dead as a doornail. You misplace their orders, forget to sanction something, get someone killed accidentally, or don't demonstrate strong visible leadership, nobody wants to be loyal to you. Being a Don is easy in some ways, very hard in others. You have to demonstrate why you're worthy of being Don, because everyone else wants it.

I am grateful that the job is done and I'll enjoy the win for sure. The part I really loved the most was being able to be openly scummy and thumb my nose at the town in such dramatic fashion... in a way I don't believe any scumbag has ever truly had the privilege before. In mafia most everyone is trying their best to act townie and trustworthy, here I just went the total opposite direction once Tincow said he had heard I was at the center of a mafia alliance to bring down the town. I knew the jig was up, and I also figured I'd survive one lynch. So I just went into exposed Palpatine mode and fully embraced the dark side. That was fun.

Should I ever be mafia again and facing death, that aspect will return. Pretending to be nice for the town is lame. Being openly scummy rules.

Yeah, I had fun. I hope others did too, in spite of my attempts to upset all their plans and generally be a menace. I'll be a nicer Pizza from now on, a reformed Pizza.... you'll still kill me every game right away for the next several months but I can change! I swear! Would I lie?

**guiri** · 12-03-2011, 13:03

Well done ATPG, Clemenza, and the last surviving docs.

Thanks to the mods and directors for a fun game and great color. I wish I'd had more time to get behind the scenes and get more involved rather than simply accepting and following orders from whoever seemed to be working in Town's favor, maybe next time.

I hope to play the next Capo game!

**Krill** · 12-03-2011, 14:03

Great thanks to Issaikhan, Generalhankerchief, and Seamus for hosting the best Mafia game I've ever played in or seen. Absolutely Fabulous.

Here is the list of my night orders:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

I got 2 successful protects, 11 successful kills that should have been 13 if Seamus hadn't had me down as a Townie when I was given the wiseguy starting PM. I didn't do any backstabbing or try to screw people over, I just wanted to get to the end game, which is one of the reasons I always sided with ATPG, I figured I was a safe bet to have in the end game because he'd want people that he knew probably weren't going to try to backstab him. And out of that comes a decisive victory.

ATPG, welcome to management. Looks like your on the job training is useful after all :p

**Jarema** · 12-03-2011, 15:23

Good game. My first game at Fatlington, so I wil describe some thoughts and experiences...

First, a big bow before hosts.

As for my play, at first I tried hard to do something on my own. On first day, I tried to create a town-aligned group, and I stumbed at Earthling wgo was doing the same. We joined forces, but he died soon. Our group was functional, though. I made about 4 successfull protections with those people. Got a chance of becoming a doctor, but refused.Then, we realized that in our group we are ALL wiseguys... and people start thinking about going mafia.
I wanted to become a rogue detective at this moment, so I was searching for someone with whom I could kill. At this very moment, I made a contact with ATPG, because he advertized himself about coordinating group efforts. It changed my game.
At this moment, active part of game was over for me and I went with a flow.
After one kill, IIRC, ATPG asked me if I want to go mafia. It was the thoughest decision I had to make during whole game. I decided to join him at this effort, mostly because I did not believed that I had any strength to oppose him. From this moment, I was his 100% loyal underling. And, despite of not surviving, I win!!!
So, for me it was good, entertaining game. I had opportunity to be active on my self, and also an opportunity to be under someone's else guidance. I feel I did not make any mistakes in tis game, so I am also glad about my performance.

Thanks once more for this game!

And... congratulations, ATPG, Capo di Tutti Capi!

**classical_hero** · 12-03-2011, 15:52

Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

Also, CLASSICAL HERO WAS NOT A PLANT.

He really was trying to rebel against me! You silly bananas.

Just like Diana Abnoba really wanted to backstab me good. You turned her down too. You know, sometimes even my closest friends want me dead after I'm a gigantic megalomaniacal jerkwad. It is possible they'd choose to betray me and you turned them down, how could you, how could you.

I would have been a plant had you not been so paranoid and it nearly cost your chance becoming Capo. I was the first to join your crusade and yet you nearly allowed your distrust to get in the way. I personally did not want to become the Don, but I was going to be loyal to Diana had she ascended into the lead. The only reason it failed is there was not enough communication in the thread and it became basically pointless to follow so when the vote came down to it Double A did not read the thread where I proposed Diana as Donna. But I was always in his pocket, even though for some reason he did not see it that way. The only reason I even put up an attempt is that I was left out by ATPG and it so nearly cost him victory. The whole point of this game is the ability to trust those you are working with. Trust that should have been earned by some players was not given. But since ATPG knew that when he confronted me, we smoothed things out and things went they way they should have.

So here are things I did for the game. At first I was not decided on which side I would join, since I was open minded to see what side would be making the gains.
The first night I protected El Barto with with Backwards logic and Winston Hughes.
Night 2 I then killed El Barto instead of protecting him in a seven group vig and he dies.
Then night 3 I did my first work for ATPG with Krill and Camikaze to kill Skysnake, which didn't due to luck. The Irony about this kill is that earlier in the game Camikaze did PM about joining him, so I could have joined the Stracchi from the get go, so I could have been part of that family before ATPG got to me. This would have been an interesting proposition, since it would have changed my loyalties to to the Don rather than ATPG.
Night 4 I kill Drunk clown with Krill, but due to a mix up with the host the kill fails, but that is the host's fault. I get credit for the kill, but the player survives.
Night 5 I kill Drunk clown again with Xehh II, but this fails due to it being a solo attack, but i am not outed.
Night 6 I attack J.D. with Camikaze, but failed due to luck.
Night 7 I attack Drunk Clown with Jarema. After 3rd try, I succeed.

Night 8 I attack Mennon and he dies. After this one I become a made of the Stracchis
Night 9 I attack DCmort93 and he dies.
Night 10 I attack AggonyKing with both Jarema and Double A, instead of just Jarema the previous 3 nights and it is a success.
Night 11 I attack Chaotix with Double A, but the solo kill fails due to Double A not getting his order in time. I am not outed by the solo attempt.
Night 12 I attack Khazaar and he dies. Afterwards I become the Stracchis consigliere.
Night 13 I attack Scottishranger and he is wounded and off to Mercy Hospital.
Night 14 I attack Winston Hughes and he gets lucky.
Night 15 I attack Kennegit, but he is protected, so it fails.
Night 16 I attack gnarlycharlie succeeded but he was doubled hit, so the luck was taken away.
Night 17 I attack Clitsome with Double A and on previous nights from the 11th night and he dies.
Night 18 I attack Backwars Logic with Jarema and Xehh II and he dies.
Night 19 i attack Chaotix with Niklas and it fails due to lack of co-ordination. But he would have been dead earlier, but things go bad.
Night 20 I protect Autolycus with Krill and Diana Abnoda. He was not attacked so nothing happened.
Night 21 i attack Autolycus with Lazy and I die due to protection from a surgeon. The surgeon was meant to be there, but I was not meant to die. And that is what i did during my night. I certainly was a blood thristy killer. Only 2 nights out of 21 did I not try an kill someone.

So I have 10 successful hits, 3 fail due to luck, 2 fail due to solo attempts 1 due to lack of co-ordination, 2 to protect and 1 was just wounded. My 2 protect attempts failed due to not been attacked.

**landlubber** · 12-03-2011, 16:47

Even though I probably was only alive for less than half of this game, it's still one of the best experiences I've had playing mafia.
ATPG, you're one of the most brilliant people I've ever played mafia with. Your ability to plan ahead, tell an immense web of lies that somehow makes perfect sense to everyone, and the way you can say just the right things to get people on your side... all of these are skills you have mastered.
When I was about to be lynched, and you approached me, I was reluctant at first. Eventually, however, I came to trust you, because it meant my survival. The rest of my family never really trusted you in any sense of the word. Because of this, we ended up sending you very obvious mixed signals. You then figured out what exactly was going on and promptly killed all of us. I don't blame them for anything; in fact, I have a lot of respect for them, because they would rather go down fighting than give up and join your side. I'd like to thank you for offering me sanctuary for that brief moment of time, though. Looking back, it was a very risky move for you to take, and you did it simply to help a struggling family. You've certainly earned a lot of respect from me this game.
Of course, a tip of the hat to Seamus, 'khaan, and GH. Fantastic job by your part. Thanks for everything you did to make this one of the best games in the history of mafia at the .org.

**Backwards Logic** · 12-03-2011, 17:56

Congrats ATPG. A well-deserved win. Though as you've seen, you never had me fooled to what your intentions were. My failing was not shoving my ideas down my teammate's throats more forcibly. As for my teammates: Renata, Niklas, and Winston: It was an absolute blast to go back in time so to speak to the glory-filled NOTW days at CFC and scheme with the three of you again. After having not done it in forever, I realized just how much fun it is and hope we can do it again sometime soon. Winston - thanks for 'recruiting' me into the Corelone family - none of this happens without us going on a killing rampage at the midgame. Renata - thanks for pretty much trusting me from the onset of me joining the Corelone's. To be honest I was expecting some hesitation because of your general paranoia you can have at times, but we pretty much got down to business immediately. And Niklas - it was nice to see you come back and be the bad-ass everyone at CFC knows you are. It was fun to watch you work your magic. So maybe next time, you guys listen to the bloodthirsty maniac calling for ATPG's head since October?

Special thanks to Seamus for getting this massive game even off of the ground, and another round of props to GH and 'khaan for keeping this beast rolling. The transition was seamless and the execution superb. Well done!

Lastly:

Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

"You are a vicious man Backwards Logic, and, uh, I'm glad you're dead!"

This is getting sig'd.

**SisterCoyote** · 12-03-2011, 18:04

Given that my own personal goal was to survive to endgame, I'm shocked and happy to have achieved it.

Fun game, all, thank you very much, and Pizza you magnificent bastard.

**Frozen In Ice** · 12-03-2011, 19:19

Congrats to the Clemenza and ATPG, and big thank you to the hosts.

I only wish I could have lived longer, I wanted so badly to become mafia, infiltrate Pizza's group, and then take Pizza down.

Perhaps next time.

**scottishranger** · 12-03-2011, 20:17

I guess I now have company as Capo's. Good game everybody, hope theres no hard feelings towards anyone!

As to my play, oh things could have gone so much better for me... If I had been allowed to take down Gamezrule and be elected to both the Pentangeli and Corleone donship I really do think that we could have beaten ATPG. No offense to Gamezrule, but I really dont think you managed the Corleone family well. Ah well whats done is done and no hard feelings. With a little more ruthlessness we could have won...

Renata, I was entirely serious that I was loyal to the Corleone family the entire time. When someone looks out for me, I look out for them. All it would have taken is a show of renewed trust and I would have been your man.

Anyways once again Congrats to ATPG, becoming Capo is a long and hard process, but oh it feels so sweet to win ;)

**gnarlycharlie** · 12-03-2011, 20:34

so what i predicted has come to pass. not exactly the way it was done but the end result. i knew Pizza would off me eventually but went along for the ride. i'd never gone as far as i did if i tried to get him. i was just supposed to be cannon fodder. fate threw me a real curve.

congratulations Pizza. thanks to Seamus for setting it up. thanks to GH and Khaan for taking over. thanks everyone for a fun game.

**Choxorn** · 12-03-2011, 20:49

So, what I did: I was attempting to go either Rogue Detective or Wiseguy from the start, because killing people is fun.

I had a bit of trouble getting that done at first, all the people I contacted for the first few nights had organization problems. Kudos to ATPG for being able to get stuff done.

First few nights of doing nothing:

Night 1: Was originally supposed to protect Winston, but forgot to send in orders (and he wasn't attacked, so it didn't matter)
Night 2: Protect Subotan with Nightbringer, Cecil XIX, and Riedquat (Inconclusive, he wasn't attacked)
Night 3: Protect Diana with Sprig and Niklas (Inconclusive, she wasn't attacked)
Night 4: Unable to do anything on account of aforementioned organixation failure.

So yeah.

On Night 5, I was among the many ATPG contacted asking us to do stuff. I replied as such:

Originally Posted by Choxorn

Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

Greetings folks.

Some of my group have dropped off or gone inactive, and I'm searching for more vigs or protectors.

If you've been having trouble finding groups, and/or would like to appear in the writeup for alibi purposes, and/or need a certain number additional successes for promotion, and would like assistance, contact me before night begins.

I may still have spaces after, but your best bet is contacting me before I send out actions.

I'm in a couple of groups that have never really done anything.

I'll gladly join one you're organizing.

Heck, I probably would have worked for him at this point even if I knew he was evil.

Back to my night actions:

Night 5: Attack Askthepizzaguy with Winston Hughes, Jarema, Raskolnikov, and Ibn-Khaldun (Fail, he was protected)
Night 6: Attack Nictel with Secura, ULC, Sigurd, issaikhaan, TheStranger, and Beskar (Success)
Night 7: Attack dcmort93 with BSmith, LazyMcCrow, robbiecon, Ibn-Khaldun, Niklas and qlyphz (Fail, target was Lucky)

The next two nights, my stay in Mercy made me incapable of doing anything, and then the mafia killed me.

Come on, I totally would have joined you guys if you'd let me! It beats dying any day!

Okay, I probably would have become afflicted with Chronic Backstabbing Disorder, but still.

So yeah, I did nothing much the entire game, joined ATPG and took the red pill, and was immediately mafia-killed. Sigh, I only got one kill. I guess it's only appropriate that it was Nictel.

Oh yeah, and I also saw a bunch of people sending Pizza email adresses, so I decided to send him the one with the Smoking Gunman email with a bunch of weird wording just to see if anyone would actually respond. Nobody ever did. It pretty much had no effect on the game aside from me using it to email the Fatlington Police that ATPG was telling the truth about something. I then sent it to ATPG to post on the radio again to try to mess with people, which didn't work at all.

**Askthepizzaguy** · 12-03-2011, 21:08

Originally Posted by landlubber

Even though I probably was only alive for less than half of this game, it's still one of the best experiences I've had playing mafia.
ATPG, you're one of the most brilliant people I've ever played mafia with. Your ability to plan ahead, tell an immense web of lies that somehow makes perfect sense to everyone, and the way you can say just the right things to get people on your side... all of these are skills you have mastered.
When I was about to be lynched, and you approached me, I was reluctant at first. Eventually, however, I came to trust you, because it meant my survival. The rest of my family never really trusted you in any sense of the word. Because of this, we ended up sending you very obvious mixed signals. You then figured out what exactly was going on and promptly killed all of us. I don't blame them for anything; in fact, I have a lot of respect for them, because they would rather go down fighting than give up and join your side. I'd like to thank you for offering me sanctuary for that brief moment of time, though. Looking back, it was a very risky move for you to take, and you did it simply to help a struggling family. You've certainly earned a lot of respect from me this game.
Of course, a tip of the hat to Seamus, 'khaan, and GH. Fantastic job by your part. Thanks for everything you did to make this one of the best games in the history of mafia at the .org.

Yeah... I guess I can feel a tiny bit less like an evil evil, because no matter who you were, if you were struggling in this game and you approached me I tried to help where I could, or even if you didn't approach me and I approached you.

I wanted to get the Tataglia and the Barzini involved in the 3 family alliance. Their fate would have been the same; I'd have figured out who the Dons were and removed them, but the Mades would be welcome to advance to the next stage of the game, possibly join the winning family.

-----Commies:

Which reminds me; I was responsible for Ishmael's downfall for the communists, primarily to keep them in check. However, after that point they took a hit or two that I wasn't responsible for and I scrambled to find them some more recruits, especially recruits that could protect each other like doctors.

I failed in that regard, but only because so many people were unsusceptible. Sorry communists, I did try to help. I told others we were going to crush you because I had to tell everyone that we were going to crush someone. People sided with me because I promised to remove people other than themselves. I never really intended to wipe you guys out, as long as you stayed loyal.

OTLD siding with the Insurrection meant that he would have been the next lynch, today, in spite of my promise to Visorslash. As for shlin28, well he wasn't really a communist and he appeared guilty on a night when there was a strange killing, so.... he had to go. But you guys needed him dead anyway.

**Askthepizzaguy** · 12-03-2011, 21:13

Originally Posted by SisterCoyote

Given that my own personal goal was to survive to endgame, I'm shocked and happy to have achieved it.

Fun game, all, thank you very much, and Pizza you magnificent bastard.

SisterCoyote, you were never in danger from me. You followed me from the beginning, became a doctor, protected my life, I trusted you.

You risked things a bit siding with the Insurrection, but I understood that. Your only "error" in my mind, which was a perfectly legit move.

I didn't want to kill you and I knew you'd be safe with the townie survivors. You had no enemies, least of all me.

At the end the people I thought about removing were Beefy due to his voting inactivity and I dont think he got his 5 protects anyway, OTLD for going inactive/siding against me, DIY for being a big ole pain in the booty (as it should be), and even LazyMcCrow.

I had a little bit of paranoia about Lazy joining the Clemenza and then wiping us all out at the end due to some hidden game mechanic of infiltrating a faction and surviving to the end.... the serial killer goes nuts and destroys the mafia.

That's what I would have added to the role if I was the game creator. Make someone pay for not catching the SK.

I decided it was creative but a long shot and if he won that way, so be it. I relied on him to survive the tie-round so I owe him the win anyway.

**gibsonsg91921** · 12-03-2011, 21:15

I'm just happy I survived so long. And I get a close victory, I think! Go Mafia! Amazing game, Seamus, GH, and khaan!

Thread: Capo di Tutti Capi IV [Concluded]

Thread Tools

Display

Re: Capo di Tutti Capi IV [In Play]

Re: Capo di Tutti Capi IV [In Play]

Re: Capo di Tutti Capi IV [In Play]

Re: Capo di Tutti Capi IV [In Play]

Re: Capo di Tutti Capi IV [In Play]

Re: Capo di Tutti Capi IV [In Play]

Re: Capo di Tutti Capi IV [In Play]

Re: Capo di Tutti Capi IV [In Play]

Re: Capo di Tutti Capi IV [In Play]

Re: Capo di Tutti Capi IV [In Play]

Re: Capo di Tutti Capi IV [In Play]

Re: Capo di Tutti Capi IV [Concluded]

Re: Capo di Tutti Capi IV [Concluded]

Re: Capo di Tutti Capi IV [Concluded]

Re: Capo di Tutti Capi IV [Concluded]

Re: Capo di Tutti Capi IV [Concluded]

Re: Capo di Tutti Capi IV [Concluded]

Re: Capo di Tutti Capi IV [Concluded]

Re: Capo di Tutti Capi IV [Concluded]

Re: Capo di Tutti Capi IV [In Play]

Re: Capo di Tutti Capi IV [In Play]

Re: Capo di Tutti Capi IV [In Play]

Re: Capo di Tutti Capi IV [In Play]

Re: Capo di Tutti Capi IV [In Play]

Re: Capo di Tutti Capi IV [In Play]

Re: Capo di Tutti Capi IV [Concluded]

Re: Capo di Tutti Capi IV [In Play]

Re: Capo di Tutti Capi IV [In Play]

Re: Capo di Tutti Capi IV [In Play]

Re: Capo di Tutti Capi IV [In Play]

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions