Star Wars: The Old Republic

[Veho Nex]

Greetings Jedi and Sith alike. This is your friendly neighborhood VehoNex here come to tell you about the great new online sensation. The old republic is the new Bioware/EA MMO that is trying its hardest to kill WoW.

But! Enough about the game! I'm here to shamelessly advertise my server, Warriors of the Shadow, and my guild, Black Sun.
I founded this guild on Warriors of the Shadow with my older brother and our half brother. If you play and would like to join us you can catch me on my main, Nexian (Server: Warriors of the Shadow) or my Alt, He-Man (Server: Warriors of the Shadow). Come play with us and we can take pleasure in destroying the Republic once and for all. Also, I hereby declare that Server: Warriors of the Shadow is the official .org server and that all orgahs young and old, extreme poster and lurker, gamer and history fanatic should join us on Warriors of the Shadow to either uphold the Republic or to fight for its destruction.

Server: Warriors of the Shadow

Mumble for Black Sun: Gnomely.No-IP.org:64738

[Vladimir]

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...e-Old-Republic

[Veho Nex]

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...e-Old-Republic

Im not really into one month necromancy, they still reek of the dead. I prefer to start anew or revive threads where no one has posted for the last 6 years.

[Vladimir]

But you're Sith?!?

[Veho Nex]

But you're Sith?!?

Your point being?

[easytarget]

If I had to guess, his point is you should be into dead things.

[Vladimir]

If I had to guess, his point is you should be into dead things.

Yea, the whole evil dark motif.

A good friend of mine is playing a hot Imperial agent. Yes, the person playing her is a guy.

[Veho Nex]

Yea, the whole evil dark motif.

A good friend of mine is playing a hot Imperial agent. Yes, the person playing her is a guy.

My BH is a lady. Truth be told I prefer to stare at a girls butt even if its fake over that of a guys. Also, just because I'm sith doesnt mean i like dead stuff. Sith really isnt the whole evil dark motif, but one about power. Whats the point of being all powerful if you kill all your subjects.

[tibilicus]

Sitting firmly on the fence with this game. Going to see how it plays out.

[econ21]

I posted my first impressions based on the open beta here:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...ta-impressions

Right now, I have a level 37 Jedi Guardian and am very happy with the game. I've been effectively playing it as a Kotor3, single player game, focussing on levelling. The story is pretty good and none of the quest dialogues I feel like space-baring through (except when it is non-English speaking aliens talking). The settings are quite varied and the quests, while they are conventional, are well motivated. I like the levelling system - a new talent point and typically a new skill each level, makes it rewarding. I like the system of having moddable gear, so you can customise your look and keep starter gear from being obsolete. Overall, I think the game works as a Kotor3. It is much longer than Kotor1 or Kotor2. The mechanics maybe better (the combat is more interactive). The companions are less of a feature (they were very pronounced in kotor1 and 2 as it was a single player game), although I like my Guardian's companions and am enjoying an ellicit romance, waiting to see if it will bring dark side points for being verboten.

I've not done much playing with other players. There are heroic 2 or 4 player quests, but I find they disrupt the flow of the story while levelling. There are "flashpoints", instanced 4 man dungeons, between planets but I tend to skip them as they are even more disruptive. There is no "looking for dungeon" tool like WoW has, so you have to hang around the fleet trying to form a group. Healers seem to be scarce. There are, if anything, too many tanks (my guardian is a tank). The community (I am on an EU RP server) seems decent: people persevere in groups and don't ragequit, unlike WoW. I have not tried PvP yet but my son likes it as a Bounty Hunter tank.

I am not sure how it will turn out. Worst best outcome, it will be a very nice atmospheric levelling experience - rather like Lord of the Rings online, but better. Whether it sustains a strong end game like WoW, is a tougher question, but the underlying mechanics (almost a clone of WoW) are solid so it has potential.

A big attraction is the difference of the class quests. It's kind of what Dragon Age Origins promised but failed to deliver: very different experiences for each class. It means that levelling an alt is attractive to me, whereas in a WoW type game, it would merely be a repetitive grind. I am not sure what my first alt will be. Playing a subversive light side Sith Warrior was immense fun in the beta. I've heard the Imperial Agent has a great "James Bond" style story arc. But I am not sure I could stomach serving the Empire for 50 levels - they are evil, in an unambiguous "destroy a planet of a billion souls" kind of way.

[Major Robert Dump]

I have around 90 minutes of uninterrupted free time a day, assuming my convoys dont get into fights and I dont get rocketed in the hooch which means I have to go count heads. So I bought the digital download, which with my big 30k connection, should take me onlu 9 more days to download haha, been going for 4 now.

Since my connection is slow and my attention is limited, I will probably play a few toons up to level 10, since I dont have the time for more advanced stuff and I dont want to have to make important decisions. Plus, the specialites will be nerfed and tweeked and I am waiting to see what comes in the next couple of months.

I have a pretty good idea of what I would like to do and with what, but I am a little put off because from my research and trolling I am gleaning that there are no non-saber melee weapons to be used by non jedi. I was really hpoing to make a melee BH. I know there are melee attacks that can be used in conjunction with other weapons, but I was really wanting to hack stuff as default attack, and I dont want to play a jedi.

I like what I see with the crafting and talents, but I am not a huge fan of the 10 points in x to get skill y type trees. I know this is the norm, I just dont like it.

I also think the class skills that come automatically from leveling are too many, and would prefer if you had to spend points to get those instead.

I was also hoping for race specific traits.

@Veho Nex: I was wanting to play republic, and probably still will, but I will come to your server and join your guild as a sith because I owe you one for sending me MB POP. Just don't expect much out of me with this slow bandwidth, I won't be back in the states until summer, and my power gaming days are over

[econ21]

I was really hpoing to make a melee BH. I know there are melee attacks that can be used in conjunction with other weapons, but I was really wanting to hack stuff as default attack, and I dont want to play a jedi.

My son levelled a BH to 50. He was also initially frustrated with the restriction to pistols (he wanted a carbine). But he was very happy with the class in power, gameplay and story.

but I am not a huge fan of the 10 points in x to get skill y type trees. I know this is the norm, I just dont like it.

Yes, it works out as "pick almost all the talents in your tree to get the ultimate talent; choose 10 from another tree" and thus provides very little actual choice or customisation. On the plus side, levelling is rewarding, getting a talent every level.

I also think the class skills that come automatically from leveling are too many,

They come fast up to about level 20, but those levels also go quite fast. Thereafter, you don't get many skills. Playing a Jedi Guardian (L41 now), I don't feel I have too many skills. It's very close to a WoW warrior and one of the things I liked about WoW warriors is having a full tool box of abilities you can use when the moment is ripe. I am using almost 36 buttons on my naga mouse though (12 + shift/ctrl versions).

I was also hoping for race specific traits.

Races are very bland, but at least you aren't forced to play race X to maximise your power. The Sith are racists, so it might be fun to play a non-human/non-Sith if you go Empire. Most Republic players seem to be human, as I am, and race never seems to matter.

[Monk]

Races are very bland, but at least you aren't forced to play race X to maximise your power. The Sith are racists, so it might be fun to play a non-human/non-Sith if you go Empire. Most Republic players seem to be human, as I am, and race never seems to matter.

There's only one, maybe two parts in the game where race is ever mentioned in the dialogue. Class choice is mentioned constantly, people react a bit differently to you if you're a Jedi as opposed to a Smuggler, for instance. Feels like a deliberate design choice to make race matter very little other than the obvious aesthetics.

Yes, it works out as "pick almost all the talents in your tree to get the ultimate talent; choose 10 from another tree" and thus provides very little actual choice or customisation. On the plus side, levelling is rewarding, getting a talent every level.

Surprisingly there are a few classes that can hybridize effectively. There's a popular mercenary build making the rounds that splits 25 points in heals and the rest in Arsenal, which some pvpers are using to top healing AND damage meters of the same game. Its quite interesting. Unfortunately not every class has that freedom.

[Major Robert Dump]

A Zabrak should have aim and agility bonuses. A Trandoshan should have mad hitpoints and strength. A human and twi lek shlould get diplomacy bonuses.

I'm just saying.

speaking of, I cant deal with the forums, there are like 5 new threads every 10 minutes..... can someone please explain to me how stat point allocations work? do you pick stats to start or as you level? wassup?

[econ21]

A Zabrak should have aim and agility bonuses. A Trandoshan should have mad hitpoints and strength. A human and twi lek shlould get diplomacy bonuses.

I'm just saying.

That's very sensible from a "world simulation" point of view, but I am not sure it works for an MMO. Powergaming is quite important in an MMO, whether competitively in PvP or "cooperatively" in raiding (being the best tank/healer/dps you can etc). What you suggest would put pressure on, for example, all Sith Warrior tanks to be Trandoshans. Either you succumb to this pressure to play something other than you want, or you feel aggrieved for being gimped for playing the race you want. I've played MMOs where my chosen race (Elf in LOTOR, for example) is the worst suited for my chosen class (guardian ie tank) and it's not fun. TOR may have gone too far in making race just cosmetic, but any racial bonuses probably should just be "flavour" things rather than have a marked effect on your power.

speaking of, I cant deal with the forums, there are like 5 new threads every 10 minutes..... can someone please explain to me how stat point allocations work? do you pick stats to start or as you level? wassup?

You pick your talents as you level. You don't directly pick your stats. Those come from your class and, especially, from your gear. It's very much following the WOW model: your gear is everything. You can customise much of your gear to get the stats you want (e.g. a guardian can put might (strength heavy) mods or more defensive ones in their heavy armor depending on whether they are following a dps or tanking build).

GC: you can't be a Wookie or a Trandoshan (or a droid). You are limited to very human-like races: Twileks and Zabraks (Darth Maul types) are perhaps the most distinctive; many others seems merely blue/green/grey/blind ugly-looking humans. However, smugglers get a Wookie companion; BHs get a Jawa; JGs an R2-D2 type droid; JCs get a Trandoshan etc.

[Monk]

GC: you can't be a Wookie or a Trandoshan (or a droid). You are limited to very human-like races: Twileks and Zabraks (Darth Maul types) are perhaps the most distinctive; many others seems merely blue/green/grey/blind ugly-looking humans.

I'm still holding out hope that when the legacy system finally gets introduced we'll see extra race options being unlockables. Nothing ridiculous, but i'd love to have a bit more variety.

And don't knock Miraluka! Come on man.

[Beskar]

The game initial start-up cost is a big no for me. I don't simply have that money and it is almost twice the price I paid for Skyrim on release.

[Major Robert Dump]

The race thing is a mistake. The bonuses could be so small that they are almost negligible, but a human or sullistan should be a better crafter than a lizard man. It would actually add to variety if you provided a manner in which to balance, such as opposing penalties implemented through stats or gear limitations. for example, a wookie has more HP but gets very little armor. A twilek cant wear a full helm. etc etc

Not looking at it from a real world stand point, I just don't like cookie cutter. I dont like when I can tell exactly what a class, build and gear loadout is the first few actions of the fight based on sparkly animations and sounds.

Still bought the game though, but gonna hold out on any leveling past 10for a couple months in hopes they add melee weapons

this is of course if I can ever get it downloaded..... still trucking along

[econ21]

The game initial start-up cost is a big no for me. I don't simply have that money and it is almost twice the price I paid for Skyrim on release.

Well, Skyrim is very good value for money but TOR is no rip-off. The game is massive. Each class has their own class quest chain - i.e. the main quest chain - lasting throughout the 50 levels (class quests maybe around 1/5 of all questing time). Republic and Empire don't share side quests. If you were to have a month of vacation or something, you'd be hard put to beat TOR for value for money for that month. I've had it for three weeks, have only one character (who is now level 44) and have played well over the advertised amount of playtime in Baldur's Gate, for example.

Of course, the initial start-up cost may be very small relative to what you have to pay for subscription fees. But even then, when I look at my WoW playtime relative to the financial cost, it compares well with even the old school RPGs like BG1. I'm not sure I will stick with TOR like I have stuck with WoW. The end-game is currently underdeveloped. But if the game earns enough money, there is potential. I'd say it's a safe buy for someone who wants a Kotor3 (or even eight Kotor3s). Whether it is for someone who wants a WoW 2.0 is yet to be proven.

[Lemur]

this looks like an MMO that is favorable for casual players

That perked my ears up. I gave up on MMOs because I could not compete with people who did not have jobs, families, etc. If BioWare has cracked the code of offering a competitive experience for those of us who have lives, ergo limited gaming time ...

[johnhughthom]

Anybody any advice on how to find out if latency fluctuation is a problem on my end and how to fix it? I'm a bit of an MMO noob. Been playing since Wednesday and it was fine until yesterday, usually around 50 ms. Since yesterday it has starting jumping between 50 and around 600, with occasional jumps to silly numbers like 30,000. I'd like to check if it's a problem with my comp or connection before I bug customer service. Nobody else on the server seems to be having any problems.

Really enjoying the game, currently level 25 with a Jedi Consular. I've heard it's probably the weakest storyline, but I'm finding it okay as gaming storylines go. I'm playing it as a singleplayer RPG with multi-player elements, only done one 2 player heroic and one 4 player heroic, and to be honest I think it's more than value for money on that basis. Not sure I'll keep playiing (and paying) once I play through the storylines though.

[Monk]

Sometimes you will time out from the servers - during which your ping will jump to insane amounts (like 50k) while your connection is attempting to reset. Your ping isn't really that high, its just the game trying to deal with the fact its lost connection to the server and estimating that as a new ping rate.

As a rule, http://pingtest.net/ is a good place to start for figuring out the stability and speed of your line. If the problem is more than just random disconnects and persists to the point it hinders your enjoyment, giving CS a ring is probably a good idea. Just be prepared - Bioware CS for swtor is not that good..

[econ21]

Sorry, GC - I am on a different server, Euro side. And I would not party with dastardly Sith anyway!

How are you finding your juggernaut? I have not been brave enough to take my JK tank into many instances but just finished my class quest today and was very satisfied with the levelling experience. I really like soloing as a tank - especially now that I have taken to bringing the healer as my companion. It feels quite balletic and fast paced. However, I can envisage it being a challenge in an instance to keep aggro and to stay alive.

[econ21]

If I was gonna play on the Republic side, it'd be a toss-up between Trooper (I like the idea of being part of a special-forces-in-space thing) or I'd make a Jedi Knight since i'm already quite comfortable with the Sith Warrior mechanics (exactly the same as the Jedi Knight, just different names for the skills).

I have a similar dilemma. I can say that the Jedi Knight story is excellent imo, if you want a fairly straightforward epic "saving the galaxy" experience. If you try it, at least play until the second planet (Coruscant) as it was one of the best whereas the starter planet was among the weakest.

My son really liked the Bounty Hunter mechanics (as well as story) though, so I may go for a trooper next. I also like the trooper premise, although the JK was much more military-oriented than I expected. One thing I missed from the JK story is when the war breaks out - apparently, the trooper story is the clearest in showing that transition.

My limited taste of the Sith Warrior was very tantalising though - playing a light side role in such a dark setting was delicious and felt wonderfully subversive, but I don't know how far I could get without feeling morally compromised (I am not a fan of playing evil characters in RPGs).

[Major Robert Dump]

My light side Inquisitor is not going so hot. I am totally broke.

My Light side bounty hunter is actually doing quite well.

Instances kill my frame rate and my slow internet doesnt help, but outdoors everything seems to run smooth, so I am just play testing builds and farming NPCs outside.

[Kekvit Irae]

My light side Inquisitor is not going so hot. I am totally broke.

I'm playing a LS Sith Inquisitor (Assassin) and money generally isn't an issue. If you're running low on credits, try picking up three gathering crew skills (Slicing gives credits directly, everything else gets you crafting materials) and just run around the world looking for gathering nodes. Once you've collected a good amount, put them up on the auction house at the default price and you'll be rolling in cash in no time. Just be sure to open up the lockboxes you get from Slicing, since they give credits directly and you cant sell lockboxes.
I'm currently level 30, and the majority of my income comes from selling my now-worthless Underworld Trading and Scavenging crap on the AH after I increase my Cybertech skill to the point where lower tier metals have no use to me. I supplement my income with doing the space battle dailies, including the bonus objectives in each mission. Once you finish Chapter 1, you'll get your own spaceship and can run dailies. You'll also get a free companion to help with gathering too. The free droid you get is also a good healer if you're running solo and aren't going Sorcerer, provided you either craft or buy his armor upgrades, and he will do crafting/gathering/missions just like your tank companion.

Cybertech works out just fine for me since I can craft purple armor mods and normal mods and put them on the AH. I can also craft level 2 spaceship upgrades, which are vastly more powerful than the level 3 upgrades you can buy. Going this route has benefited me in many ways, such as keeping a set of low-level orange custom armor and then just upgrading it whenever I can with my armoring and mods. No need to buy more armor unless it's orange. With a decent amount of Cybertech, your custom armor will be vastly better than loot armor of the same variety. Using this method, I choose commendations over other rewards for quests in case I stumble upon a really good enhancement on the commendation vendor, or a piece of orange armor I absolutely need.

EDIT: I'd also like to expand on the whole idea of running space battle dailies. They give huge amounts of money (relatively) for little effort. For example, Sarapin Assault, unlocked at level 24, has you go up against a disabled Republic destroyer. At level 30, the mission reward is around 600 credits (it's much greater at higher levels), and the bonus objective for killing 60 fighters is around 300. However, the key here to getting money is to throw all missiles you have at the command deck (the raised portion on the top of the destroyer in the middle) until it goes boom. That's the super secret bonus objective, and gives a whopping 2700 credits, even at my level. Sadly, you only get this reward when you are on the mission daily, so it's not repeatable. But 2.7k for about five minutes work is definitely something you want to look into if you're hurting for money. The Cartel Listening Post, unlocked at level 20, has a similar secret bonus objective, which is the comm relay on the tower below the station. Again, throw missiles at it until it dies. Easy money.

[econ21]

I am totally broke.

I think you said you would keep low level for a bit, so that may partly account for your financial woes. I never felt I had alot of credits, but at near end level, they really started pouring in just from questing (timely as I think you are expected spend nearly 400k on the final speeder skill and vehicle).

While levelling, I don't think I bought anymuch at all - there were some vendors, but their prices seemed high given all the great stuff you get from quest rewards.

One purchase I would recommend though are the upgrades for the ships. You can get a near full set from vendors at low level. Having the most basic ones really helps you get started and does not cost much (quickly recouped). And upgrading when you can makes the later missions doable - the missions even warn you, you are expected to have ship upgrades of a certain tier (levelling gives you access to harder space missions, but does not make you any better at them unless you buy the upgrades unlocked by level requirements).

[rvg]

I have a question about this game. Is this basically World of Old Republicraft or does it have significant gameplay differences?

[Voigtkampf]

I suppose on any other forums people might scream "trollz!!!" and aim their flamethrowers at you.

But it is indeed a legitimate question, and as much as one may like or dislike the game, the answer is "yes". The developers themselves have said that they weren't trying to reinvent the wheel and, more so, that they were specifically taking WoW as their model to base their development upon. Which is neither odd nor is it stupid, WoW ruled for a reason, and one should explore the reasons why that game has, after some eight years of existence, about ten million active subscribers.

I couldn't fall in love with ToR. I saw nothing that deviated from the WoW MMORPG formula except the heavy reliance on the spoken dialogs. It lacks many of winning features of WoW and currently has no end game. Also, BioWare has proven that they cannot really manage an MMO community (Ilum patch 1.1 PvP disaster is one "shiny" example of their inability to act if anyone should require one pointed out).

That all being said, ToR is a fun game, a new game, and deserves a try. I unsubbed after the first month, but I know I'll try the game again at some point, after it had some more time to "ferment". Sadly, at this specific moment, it is not what I hoped for, and it doesn't really give me an incentive to stay subscribed to it.

[econ21]

I have a question about this game. Is this basically World of Old Republicraft or does it have significant gameplay differences?

It's more like Warcraft than Warcraft it, I think. That's to say - it is like old style Warcraft, when talent trees were real talent trees, tanks were real tanks and sexy blue humanoids were real sexy blue humanoids. No, sorry, I got carried away there. But ToR has somethings that WoW either had in the past and discarded, or is about to discard. Threat is still a big issue for tanks (they get 150% threat in ToR compared to dps, 500% in WoW) and levelling is still substantial, engaging and challenging with a risk of death if you under-perform. Conversely, as Voigtkampf says, it lacks some of the features that WoW has acquired that almost invaluable - like threat meters and other add-ons, Looking for Dungeon Queues etc.

I think you would have to look at the different classes to see if the mechanics are very different. I have only played a Jedi Knight/Sith Warrior tank and it is so similar to a WoW protection warrior, you would think Blizzard could sue. However, I suspect some of the other classes may be more innovative - for example, some healers shoot to heal, which sounds neat while the "ranged tank" of the Trooper/Bounty Hunter sounds a lot of fun, even if it is not really "ranged".

As Voigtkampf says, the biggest distinctive feature of ToR is the spoken dialogs and one should not under-estimate that. Levelling is a lot of fun in ToR (I used to like levelling in WoW, but nowadays, aside form whatever is the current expansion, levelling in WoW is so accelerated and nerfed, it is would be tedious - if it were not so accelerated). Levelling a character in ToR is very like playing a meaty single player RPG like Dragon Age or Kotor. It takes a while but eventually you are at the end game and as Voigtkampf says, you are left with an end-game that is not very distinctive from WoW and currently inferior to it. I am sure Bioware will improve and expand the endgame, but I doubt it will be more than World of Old Republicraft.