Fan ideas for your new MOD.

[VivaSalsa]

Thanks guys!

Like I said: never played MODs before (except RTR, tried it) and in vanilla, if I remember Carthage had no archers. I thought this was a huge pain in the but for city defense games. Somehow slingers and skirmisher did not quite do the job.

And in RTR it was always local troops you could hire, but in the whole peninsula of Italy you couldn't get an archer unit. Which I found ridiculous. That is where my concern came from on this topic.

I hope some people bring up some other topics in this thread.

[rickinator9]

Actually, you will find slingers very useful in this mod. They have armor piercing, although I don't find it that historical that the slingers don't have unlimited ammo. Those little stones they use should be able to be found anywhere.

[moonburn]

Actually, you will find slingers very useful in this mod. They have armor piercing, although I don't find it that historical that the slingers don't have unlimited ammo. Those little stones they use should be able to be found anywhere.

so it would be like a basktball game when slingers runned out of proper stones they would ask for a time out run to the nearest river or stream to try and select the best stones and then return for the 3th period (most slingers used special stream stones or where supllyed with lead bullets by their polis ) in case of emergency they probably cut their stones to make them fit but slingers do run out of ammunnition

[athanaric]

Thanks guys!

Like I said: never played MODs before (except RTR, tried it) and in vanilla, if I remember Carthage had no archers. I thought this was a huge pain in the but for city defense games.

Rome has factional slingers until the Marian reforms (where they're replaced by scorpions and auxiliary archers). Also, you can hire Nuraghi Archer-Spearmen on Sardinia, Celtic Archer-Spearmen and Celtic Slingers in Northern Italy and Hellenic archers (bad) and Hellenic slingers (great) in Kalabria and Sicily.
Quite apart from Kretan and Balearic mercenaries being available in the region. Also, try out the recruitable Kretan Archers.
Carthage can recruit Numidian archers and slingers as auxiliaries.

[Blxz]

Thanks guys!

Like I said: never played MODs before (except RTR, tried it) and in vanilla...

...but in the whole peninsula of Italy you couldn't get an archer unit. Which I found ridiculous. That is where my concern came from on this topic.

Ok.

You haven't even played the mod but you are getting all these 'ideas' on what needs to be done to improve the mod; most of them seem to be making it like vanilla. Furthermore, the vast majority of things you have suggested are already in the mod or are, quite frankly, wrong. I really suggest you download and play EB1. Its a very fun game and you will not be disappointed in it.

Furthermore, this will really give you the chance to appreciate some of the things that happen in the game and the reasons they were done. Rome doesn't have dudes with bows, it has dudes with slings and some javelins. Also, if you don't like native roman troops you are very easily able to recruit many of the units from surrounding lands that you can occupy. This allows you to use another factions bowmen if you REALLY need them. On top of that the unit descriptions can tell you a lot about why certain things occur. You will notice that the majority of archery is in the east. Mostly due to the weather conditions and the technical innovations that allowed composite bows. These bows do not hold up well in damp/humid weather.

Once again, I suggest you play the first mod, if only because it will allow you to be a little better informed about the things that you comment on. Please, for all our sakes!

[VivaSalsa]

Yeah you are right, why bring anything up for discussion...

You are acting like I don't like whats going on or something, that EB(II) is a bad idea! I just put some ideas/questions out there, and hoped other people would also post their ideas/questions here. Which is why I started this thread in the first place. So take a pill, relax and give us your views on the game, what you think can improve, or would like to see different.

That goes for everybody actually, fans can have a positive input on the making of a game.

PS: you might notice I said FAN, the word pops up a lot this thread. Try looking it up what it means....

[Unintended BM]

Most of your suggestions are invalid because of historical accuracy reasons, or invalid because you don't know what you're talking about. Play EB, then come back to this thread and suggest new things, but don't suggest anything by just going off of various previews. Besides, you've already admitted that you don't play games anymore, so you're not even someone in a position to make suggestions like these. You probably won't even play the mod that you're suggesting things for. Let people who actually played the original EB and who are interested in someday playing EBII make suggestions.

[Tauern]

EB 2 wäre der Hammer! Ich vergöttere dieses Spiel und spiele den Mod Europa Barbarorum immer noch gerne. Was ich mir für einen zweiten Teil wünschen würde, wäre eine Anlehnung an Europa Barbarorum mit Seeschlachten, der Möglichkeit in der selben Stadt mehrere Einheiten gleichzeitig auszubilden und mehrere Gebäude gleichzeitig zu bauen, alle Götter gleichzeitig in einer Stadt mit Tempeln ehren zu können, mehr Einheiten in die Schlacht führen zu können, Wiedereinführung der Kriegshunde, mehr Möglichkeiten bei der Ausrüstung der Soldaten mit verschiedenen Schmiedetypen, Schumachern, Helmmachern, Bognern, Schwertschmieden etc. und dass diese Ausrüstungsgegenstände sichtbar sind oder eben nicht, wenn nicht ausgerüstet. Ich würde mir mehr Möglichkeiten beim Handel wünschen, so dass zum Beispiel Schuhe die beim Schuhmacher in Capua gemacht werden per optionaler Handelsroute nach Rom geliefert werden können, um dort die Legionäre mit Caligulae zu versorgen, mit Schwertern aus Noricum, Kettenhemden aus Gallien etc.
Ich würde mir auch wünschen, dass es wie im Bello Gallico beschrieben, möglich wäre die Getreideversorgung einer feindlichen Armee zu kappen, deren Tross anzugreifen oder die Wasserversorgung einer Stadt zu kappen. Legionslager sollten zu einer Stadt ausbaubar sein, wie so viele Stadte, wie Köln, aus Legionslagern entstanden sind.
Last but not least wünsche ich mir spannendere Belagerungen wie weiter unten bereits beschrieben, die Möglichkeit zur Kapitulation und übergabe einer Stadt, noch mehr Realismus in den Schlachten, und dass die eigenen Fernkämpfer ein bisschen intelligenter sind und nicht stur eigene Einheiten in der Schusslinie ignorieren und töten!

[Ca Putt]

Mahlzeit Tauern.

Da bräuchte man aber nen anderes Spiel weder rome noch medieval 2 bieten da hinreichend Möglichkeiten. Das mit den Hunden ließ sich sicher machen aber Ick glob dat die herrn von EB die aus gutem grund aka mangelnder historischer relevanz rausgenommen haben. Grundsätzlich solltest du dich aber hier im forum versuchen in englisch auszudrücken, ick bin hier zwar nich die forums-polizei aber allgemein sehn die leute es nich gerne wenn jemand inner fremden sprache postet und die sprache überdies noch gesprochen wird :D

I'm just telling him that most of his suggestions are not possible due to the TW engine. That dogs were removed on purpose and that he should refrain himself to english on these forums.

[Bob Doad]

Historic generals showing up to help their faction, also could their be historical uprsisings but they should be tied to certain conditions not a date :)

[athanaric]

PS: you might notice I said FAN, the word pops up a lot this thread. Try looking it up what it means....

Yes it comes from fanum, which denotes some sort of temple, and therefore fan, being the short form of fanatic, means "religious zealot". Which is why I usually don't utilize that word when referring to myself.

Very appropriate though for football enthusiasts.

[Nightbringer]

VivaSalsa,
welcome to the .org!

I think the reason people are reacting negatively to your comments is because threads such as this one pop up constantly where people request things that are either insufficiently research (historically) or just impossible to do in modding the game. This grates on nerves and probably causes the reaction to be harsher than people really mean it to be.
The other issue is that you have not yet played the original EB. A number of the things you have brought up would have been addressed if you had played that mod.

As to the discussion of infantry experience. I think VivaSalsa is making a valid point that soldiers do gain experience from being in a battle, even if they them-self do not fight, and I think this could even be extended to saying that soldiers gain experience from being on a campaign, even without battles.
That said, the experience system of the TW engine does not reflect this type of experience. As far as I know there is no feasible way for the TW engine to properly represent the greater discipline and moral of veteran soldiers. Realistically, I think experience would be more likely to affect things such ass movement rates, ability to maneuver and deploy in battle, ability to hold a formation, etc... However, since in game experience only makes a unit better at fighting, I think it is logical to award it based on how much fighting that unit has done, rather than on other factors which would, in reality, make one a better soldier in other ways.

[Blxz]

Yeah you are right, why bring anything up for discussion...

You are acting like I don't like whats going on or something, that EB(II) is a bad idea! I just put some ideas/questions out there, and hoped other people would also post their ideas/questions here. Which is why I started this thread in the first place. So take a pill, relax and give us your views on the game, what you think can improve, or would like to see different.

That goes for everybody actually, fans can have a positive input on the making of a game.

PS: you might notice I said FAN, the word pops up a lot this thread. Try looking it up what it means....

Heh, you don't want to argue with me. And I have no intention of arguing with you. But you should play the original mod. Its a very fun game despite its shortcomings and the team has done some incredible work. The breadth of information is truly staggering, when you consider these are just normal people working on a hobby of theirs then it becomes even more amazing. The love and care and detail that has been put in to every little aspect, even down to little snippets of humour hidden around the place.

I whole-heartedly, without any malice, suggest you give it a shot.

[Titus Marcellus Scato]

Rome doesn't have dudes with bows, it has dudes with slings and some javelins. You will notice that the majority of archery is in the east. Mostly due to the weather conditions and the technical innovations that allowed composite bows. These bows do not hold up well in damp/humid weather.

Good info.

If early Rome had factional archers, IMO they would have been like Hellenic Toxotai - i.e. crap. Accensi slingers are better than Toxotai archers.

But if someone wants Rome to have archers (crap or otherwise) instead of slingers, it is possible to mod them in yourself.

[Arjos]

Roma afaik used only auxiliares for archery...
Saw now the OP was interested in recruiting them specifically in the city of Rome, as Blxz pointed out you have slingers there, but for the whole of the peninsula you have both Toxotai and Sotaroas...
Plus in Sardinia you even get Dorkim Shardanim...

[moonburn]

trust me i was in that position and odysseus was always breaking my balls the schytians and the syracusans granted me a few ridiculous situations and for most of my sugestions they where never adopted simply because the game doesn´t allow it i mean the game engine

[Shadowwalker]

In EB I, Roman archers only come with the second reform and IIRC only in some provinces.

Rome has factional slingers until the Marian reforms (where they're replaced by scorpions and auxiliary archers). Also, you can hire [...] Hellenic slingers (great) in Kalabria and Sicily.
Also, try out the recruitable Kretan Archers.

athanaric, are you sure of these two statements?
In all my roman campaigns (and I played - though never finished - a lot of them, stopped counting after about 10 ) I never got factional archers with the marian reforms (only the Augustan ones - a shame that I only reached them once).
And I never was able to train a single hellenic slinger.

I absolutely agree about the Toxotai Kretikoi though. I always make sure that every legion has a unit of them (one of the very few occasions where I neglect history - they are just too good to not hire them).

[athanaric]

athanaric, are you sure of these two statements?
In all my roman campaigns (and I played - though never finished - a lot of them, stopped counting after about 10 ) I never got factional archers with the marian reforms (only the Augustan ones - a shame that I only reached them once).
And I never was able to train a single hellenic slinger.

I forgot to mention that the factional dudes are only recruitable somewhere in the eastern Levant. Maybe they're Augustan and not Marian (I've never reached the Marian reforms yet). Being "Eastern Auxiliaries" and all that. Also, I just remembered that Rome can't recruit Sphendonetai. Which sucks, but then again you have Celtic and Numidian (IIRC) slingers, which are decent enough. Also, Numidian archers. You can also bribe units of Rhodian slingers, though you can't recruit them yourself.