Mid-Game Blues

[Brennus]

Lulz.

I'm also having the Mid-game blues disorder with the seleucids. I'm killing off egypt and now I need to go to the southernmost egyptian city at the sea near the arabian peninsula. My guy needs to walk 10 turns and that is pretty much the only army I can afford right now. It's really difficult to resist to send that army up against parthia which has taken most of my eastern provinces.

Ditto. I will send you a PM showing the current state of my empire to compare.

[Lysimachos]

What kind of army do you have that you can only afford one after killing off egypt? The seleucids have ready access to cheap units that want to be used to create numerical superiority.

[rickinator9]

What kind of army do you have that you can only afford one after killing off egypt? The seleucids have ready access to cheap units that want to be used to create numerical superiority.

I like to have something in my build que every turn. I have a mid sized army in western Anatolia to take some cities there. I have a heavily depleted army taking egypt. That army consists of like 5 pezhetairoi, 1 thureoporoi, 1 peltastai and my FL

[Lysimachos]

Perhaps it would have been a better question what year you are at. It is true that in the beginning money can be scarce, I usually wait a bit before I advance into Africa, so it's a bit later and the economy has began raking the cash in. From your post I gather you are still rather early in the campaign.

[rickinator9]

Perhaps it would have been a better question what year you are at. It is true that in the beginning money can be scarce, I usually wait a bit before I advance into Africa, so it's a bit later and the economy has began raking the cash in. From your post I gather you are still rather early in the campaign.

I have to start up EB again to see that. I think I'm around 15 to 20 years in. I can already recruit the elite thorakitai, but I don't because they are above budget.

[A_Dane]

I have this happen to me alot. Mostly due to the completely insane AI.. If any 2 nations at war with each other both gets a border with you, they'll instantly make peace with each other, and direct their attention to you.. I've been trying to get a good game going as Hayasdan, as I have a goal to strive for (reforms, conqueroring the persian empire), but every time i jus get bogged down because I have to fight those endless stacks of Seleucids, ptollies, Sauros, Pahlava's and sometimes Pontics as well.. (My only game on VH/VH was with Hayasdan, I quit in disgust after my ally, Pahlava who i didn't share a border with, decided to march an army all the away across the caspian sea and attack one of my settlements, even though they were getting absolutely destroyed by our common enemy, the seleucids.. Hard makes it somewhat less likely..). In any case, I really hope something is being done about the elite stack spamming, as it's my main obstacle atm, it really gets boring fighting those elite seleucid pikemen, who can't be properly countered as they can just turn around and face your cavalry charges even though they're already fighting...

[konny]

In any case, I really hope something is being done about the elite stack spamming

That's impossible to prevent from with the RTW engine but pretty simple with the M2TW one, thanks to the replenish rate. That way we can allow, for example, the Seleucids to raise elite pikeman in every town, but only one every five years or so. This makes important battles much more decisive because it can destroy an army that the enemy would need many years, if not decades, to replace.

With the RTW engine the AI is able to raise a new unit of elites every turn in each town that has them. This means when you had crashed a stack with 10 elite phalanxes the AI would be able to replace that stack before you would be able to conquer the next town.

[KyodaiSteeleye]

Although there is a problem with elite spam, its more from the player perspective I think, as having lots of elites in their armies is the only real way to get a decent fight out of the AI (and usually they don't even when they have the ability - most of the time its just lots of skirmishers and militias). I like the replenish rate thing though, which sounds good. The main thing for me is getting a balance between an AI that causes you real problems (eg:- by being fairly aggressive and being a real danger to your settlements), and one which just spams you with crappy little armies every turn, which don't really threaten you, but just piss you off :)

[Ca Putt]

Close Druzhina in Rusichi Total war are a neat example of that. They are your Bodyguard but also trainable in all your cities. Top notch units, 2 Hp and all the evil stats you can dream of, blatantly small squad. You get two or three units of them from start and... when you do not retrain them you can actually recruit a second batch from your starting cities by the time you control most of russia :D

[A_Dane]

That's impossible to prevent from with the RTW engine but pretty simple with the M2TW one, thanks to the replenish rate. That way we can allow, for example, the Seleucids to raise elite pikeman in every town, but only one every five years or so. This makes important battles much more decisive because it can destroy an army that the enemy would need many years, if not decades, to replace.

With the RTW engine the AI is able to raise a new unit of elites every turn in each town that has them. This means when you had crashed a stack with 10 elite phalanxes the AI would be able to replace that stack before you would be able to conquer the next town.

Knew i had forgotten something important when i wrote that, I ofcourse meant for EBII :) My main issue is exactly what you describe, you can't really win a "decisive" victory against the AI like this :/ Anyways, really looking forward to this in EBII :)

[Brennus]

For the sake of rickinator9 and anyone else who would like to comment here is a picture of my Seleucid Empire:



I put the red line around to help delinate it better, also I am colour blind so I can't see EB borders too well (anyone else have this problem?)

The army currently selected is the force guarding my eastern border, there are two larger armies to the west, one campaigning in Egypt and another retraining in Antioch after capturing Nabatea. I will provide full lists of troop types and an economic breakdown if people want more info.

P.S. Yes I know this is northern Britain, I wanted to see what my ancestors were up to.

[Blxz]

I am not colour blind. And I see you missed some of the seleukid land in Cyrene. Also, in egypt I think you highlighted a little ptolmaeic land near the south.

Must be tough being colour blind. is it just red/green or is it a variety of things? I honestly can't imagine how it would feel.

[Brennus]

I am not colour blind. And I see you missed some of the seleukid land in Cyrene. Also, in egypt I think you highlighted a little ptolmaeic land near the south.

Must be tough being colour blind. is it just red/green or is it a variety of things? I honestly can't imagine how it would feel.

Im fairly sure Cyrene is Carthaginian (if it's not I have really not been paying attention to this game!). It's just a minor inconvenience, mostly reds and greens if they are next to each other and some purples, blues and pinks.

I may have highlighted some Ptolemaic lands, but fear not they will soon me mine!

[Lysimachos]

Judging from the minimap it's yours. :-)

Cyrene will revolt to the seleucids until it has been upgraded and you don't get a headsup, so it's easy to miss.

[Ca Putt]

I know that problem, one reason for me to give most factions a slightly differently colored outline. without the harsh contrasts of vanilla it even looks quite pleasing.

[Brennus]

Lysimachos, Blxz your right. I just checked, Cyrene has come over to me. It also explains why my economy has been struggling lately, the place has a large garrison with lots of cavalry.

[Blxz]

It's just a minor inconvenience, mostly reds and greens if they are next to each other and some purples, blues and pinks.

So most of the colour wheel then?

[Brennus]

So most of the colour wheel then?

lol!

[konny]

The main thing for me is getting a balance between an AI that causes you real problems (eg:- by being fairly aggressive and being a real danger to your settlements), and one which just spams you with crappy little armies every turn, which don't really threaten you, but just piss you off :)

That's to be addressed by the same means: For example, with the Romans we could define that Rorarii, Principes and Hastati all have the same replenish rate, for example, of 0.25, and the same maximum number, for example 2. Pedites Extrordinarii could then have a replenish rate of 0.05 and a maximum number of 1. (just samples, not actual numbers from EBII)

That way the AI would be more or less forced to use mid-level units, what it now has a strange tendency to ignore: it would only get an elite unit every 20th turn, while getting a fresh crappy unit every 4th turn. So once the AI had raised the Extraordinarii and the Rorarii there would be nothing left to recruit than Hastati and Principes for four turns. Using the Kingdoms.exe we could even add recruitment preferences that makes the AI prefer Hastati and Principes over Rorarii.

I have made the experience that the AI in (a heavily modded) M2TW/Kingdoms is raising extremly balanced armies.