Koran Burning Craziness

[rvg]

Leave or slaughter the people, burn their homes and sow the fields with salt? A choice which all empires have to make eventually.

Why "or"? "And"!

[Fragony]

Why "or"? "And"!

And for what? Why so upset this is self-eflicted violence. Just think of what you are actually saying. Just because they grew up without running water doesn't make Afghans total idiots

[rvg]

Because the Taliban will inevitably take over. After they've established a grip on the country and paraded Karzai with his balls in his mouth they'll inevitably try to expand their influence. Wrecking that country even further will leave them with fewer resources to use against their neighbors (and us).

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Or, you know, do it properly and stay the 20-30 years it takes to pacify a country.

I know PJ thinks little of British soldiers, but if you want an object lesson on Counter Terrorism you should read up on Operation Banner.

[rvg]

Or, you know, do it properly and stay the 20-30 years it takes to pacify a country.

I know PJ thinks little of British soldiers, but if you want an object lesson on Counter Terrorism you should read up on Operation Banner.

Nah, not worth it. I don't feel like spending neither my money nor the lives of my compatriots on the Afghans.

[rory_20_uk]

Or, you know, do it properly and stay the 20-30 years it takes to pacify a country.

I know PJ thinks little of British soldiers, but if you want an object lesson on Counter Terrorism you should read up on Operation Banner.

Northern Ireland / Ireland in general is a lot smaller than Afghanistan.
Although there were those trying to derail the peace in Ireland, the players trying to do so in Afghanistan are far more numerous.
People in Ireland have an economy (or sorts). Afghanistan barely has a functioning economy. What they have is based around illegal crops of opium
Ireland had a functioning system of government. Afghanistan's government is corrupt from top to bottom, and is from inception not trusted by the people.
At least a decent percentage of those in Northern Ireland didn't view the soldiers as invaders / crusaders. This is rarely the case in Afghanistan.
The Irish and English speak similar languages in the main, have similar faiths and barring episodes of Irish logic, make sense to each other. Rarely the case in Afghanistan.

Pakistan, after close to 60 years has failed to integrate the Northern Tribal Areas. They have similar ethnic backgrounds, similar religions and even with twice as long there is little if any improvement. How would be manage to sort out a vastly bigger area with such massive cultural gulfs?

And as RVG said, at the end of the day, it ain't worth it.

[Papewaio]

Ireland & England separation is akin to what happened with India and Pakistan separation.

Afghanistan is also similar to post WWII Marshall plans and what happened in Japan. However Japan had a much more educated populace that was a democracy Pre-war. So it was in a much better starting point. The people were defeated, half starved and obeyed their Emperor.

I also suspect rules of occupation in Japan were far more harsh. Japanese swords and other weapons, heirlooms or not, had to be surrended. Did the same thing happen in Afghanistan? Samurai had their swords taken why not the Afghans AKs?

Simply put we are not ruthless enough to be Imperial Japan, not are we tough enough to handle the long haul to properly fix the situation.

The burning of the Korans was malicious it was stupid.
The riots were a logical outcome given what happened when a crackpot burnt a koran last year.

The response to the protestors probably should have been apologize, crackdown on any violence, curfew and more patrols.

[PanzerJaeger]

Or, you know, do it properly and stay the 20-30 years it takes to pacify a country.

I know PJ thinks little of British soldiers, but if you want an object lesson on Counter Terrorism you should read up on Operation Banner.

I think little of the British military as an operational force. British soldiers are among the best in the world. It is the leadership and establishment they operate under that often lets them down. It has been a common theme since the world wars at least. One of the major issues the British had in Iraq was trying to apply poorly reasoned lessons from Operation Banner to a Middle Eastern insurgency and then arrogantly holding fast to those lessons in the face of obvious failure. The leadership showed no ability or even willingness to adapt.

[Fragony]

Because the Taliban will inevitably take over. After they've established a grip on the country and paraded Karzai with his balls in his mouth they'll inevitably try to expand their influence. Wrecking that country even further will leave them with fewer resources to use against their neighbors (and us).

Let India and Russia worry about that

[gaelic cowboy]

I suppose what Operation Banner shows is you eventually have to do a deal of some kind so in the end some kind of Taliban entity if not the actual one will be allowed back inside.

There was a cartoon here a few years back which showed Gerry Adams, Yasser Arafat an Bin Laden the word terrorist was crossed out and replaced with diplomat while Bin laden was just smiling saying "Give it time".

Bin Laden wont get his chance but we cant discount others of his ilk being let inside the tent one day.

[rvg]

Let India and Russia worry about that

I was actually thinking about Pakistan. With the Pakistani taliban already causing trouble the addition of taliban-controlled Afghanistan might further destabilize the current government in Islamabad. Pakistan has nukes, we cannot afford to let it descend into chaos or be taken over by the taliban.

[gaelic cowboy]

I was actually thinking about Pakistan. With the Pakistani taliban already causing trouble the addition of taliban-controlled Afghanistan might further destabilize the current government in Islamabad. Pakistan has nukes, we cannot afford to let it descend into chaos or be taken over by the taliban.

Once the Americans leave the Pakistanni Taliban will be turned on the Indians as they were always meant to be.(an they will be happy to do it)

[rvg]

Once the Americans leave the Pakistanni Taliban will be turned on the Indians as they were always meant to be.(an they will be happy to do it)

I doubt it. Pakistan has groups that are fighting against India, but none of those guys are associated with taliban. Taliban is more interested in talibanizing Pakistan before anything else.

[Fragony]

I was actually thinking about Pakistan. With the Pakistani taliban already causing trouble the addition of taliban-controlled Afghanistan might further destabilize the current government in Islamabad. Pakistan has nukes, we cannot afford to let it descend into chaos or be taken over by the taliban.

I was thinking about Pakistan as well, India's problem not yours. All you got to do is look the other way and leave it to those less interested in human rights, they are already used to that anyway

[Centurion1]

I was thinking about Pakistan as well, India's problem not yours. All you got to do is look the other way and leave it to those less interested in human rights, they are already used to that anyway

That's just naive. Radical Islamic's willing to give or sell nukes to the highest bidder are most certainly a threat to the entire world. Foolishness like the prior statement are how tragedies happen. 'Let someone else deal with it' just leads to ruin.