Killing People

[gaelic cowboy]

And what about all those you could save by not allowing offenders to repeat their crimes?

Explain and expand on this statement Vuk

Stating we must kill people because other innocent people might be later killed on release makes no sense.

We cannot prove any such crimes will occur but we can be 100% sure not everyone executed worldwide is guilty.

[Vuk]

Explain and expand on this statement Vuk

Stating we must kill people because other innocent people might be later killed on release makes no sense.

We cannot prove any such crimes will occur but we can be 100% sure not everyone executed worldwide is guilty.

No, but you know the likelihood that if you let someone out of prison who was convicted of murder he will kill again. You may not know for 100% certain, but you know there is an enormous likelihood, and your actions make it possible.
If I close my eyes and point a loaded gun into a crowd and press the trigger, I don't know for sure if I will kill people, but I do know for sure that my actions will greatly increase the likelihood of someone being killed. Am I not a murderer if someone gets killed?
How so is it any different with someone who lets a confessed and convicted killer out of prison, knowing that it will greatly increase the chance of someone being murdered? Are they not just as much a murder as the one who closes his eyes and shoots toward a crowd?

[gaelic cowboy]

No, but you know the likelihood that if you let someone out of prison who was convicted of murder he will kill again. You may not know for 100% certain, but you know there is an enormous likelihood, and your actions make it possible.

You would be on more solid ground if your statement had been started this way.

No, but you know the likelihood that if you let someone out of prison who was convicted of murder they might kill again. You may not know for 100% certain, but you know there is an enormous likelihood, and your actions make it possible.

Now it makes more sense but it still does not mean we need capital punishment.

If I close my eyes and point a loaded gun into a crowd and press the trigger, I don't know for sure if I will kill people, but I do know for sure that my actions will greatly increase the likelihood of someone being killed. Am I not a murderer if someone gets killed?

Yes you are a murder and willfully negligent in your actions even if you had not meant to kill anyone, but really Vuk how is this relevant to the present discussion.

How so is it any different with someone who lets a confessed and convicted killer out of prison, knowing that it will greatly increase the chance of someone being murdered? Are they not just as much a murder as the one who closes his eyes and shoots toward a crowd?

No

[Rhyfelwyr]

Vuk I get the mindset you are coming from where everything is very absolute and it's all about harsh justice etc.

But ask yourself. In the examples you are giving, does taking that approach really make the world a better place?

Killers can be reformed. Why not help them change and become contributing members of society? Hatred between different religions or nationalities is more a sort of collective madness than a reflection on the personalities of the individuals involved. Why not remove the hatred and live in peace?

Supporting the death penalty and the right of militaries to kill in self-defence are very mainstream opinions, but you are using extreme and pretty bizarre arguments to take those principles and apply them in a very hardline, impractical and chaotic way.

[a completely inoffensive name]

I kept trying to remove all the nuance from my world view.....but it's just not working. Sorry Vuk, looks like I am still seeing shades of gray.

[Centurion1]

This topic has merit as grounds for a backroom debate let's actually try to keep this one going and not just dismiss it out of hand.

[a completely inoffensive name]

No one except the religious should have a reason to tolerate the death penalty under any sorts.

A. Left minded people will reach this conclusion from the view point of prisoner's rights/human rights.
B. Right minded people should come to this conclusion from the view point of not legalizing the practice of government killing its own citizens. There really should never be any sort of situation where government is "allowed" to murder a citizen. Pretending otherwise is just as silly as pretending that we really will never need the 2nd Amendment.