First the Koran Burnings, Now This; I Think We're Donesies in the 'Stan

[Kikuchiyo]

We have an agreement with Afghanistan as well as every other country hosting U.S. troops that explicitly states that our soldiers get tried by our military tribunal, not the local courts. No exceptions. If this happened in Germany, our soldier would still be 100% immune from German prosecution (at that point he'd wish he wasn't, but that's another story). That's the way we run things everywhere, not just in Afghanistan. If some country doesn't like that, it's their prerogative, that just means that we will not station our troops there (as was the case with Iraq last fall).

I think that misses out the minor detail that Afghanistan and Iraq were actually invaded and did not exactly have a choice regarding the stationing of troops...

[Vladimir]

I think that misses out the minor detail that Afghanistan and Iraq were actually invaded and did not exactly have a choice regarding the stationing of troops...

Perhaps there is a term you are not familiar with: SOFA.

[Kikuchiyo]

Perhaps there is a term you are not familiar with: SOFA.

Yes... but if the countries were invaded in the first place, then how exactly is that worth the paper it's printed on?

Iraq did have a choice, it expressed its choice, which is why we're out of there: they refused to extend the agreement. Same agreement is in place with Karzai.

So now Iraq and Afghanistan chose to be invaded...?

[Vladimir]

Yes... but if the countries were invaded in the first place, then how exactly is that worth the paper it's printed on?

Because the de facto government agreed with it, regardless of your opinion.

[Kikuchiyo]

Perhaps there is a term you are not familiar with: SOFA.

U.S. personnel are immune from criminal prosecution by Afghan authorities, and are immune from civil and administrative jurisdiction
except with respect to acts performed outside the course of their duties.

I wonder... though no doubt there's some other clause...

Would that apply to say... abandoning your post and heading off to butcher 16 civilians?

[rory_20_uk]

I think that misses out the minor detail that Afghanistan and Iraq were actually invaded and did not exactly have a choice regarding the stationing of troops...

Oh, it's fine as the new (puppet) government that was instated is as pleased as punch to have the opportunity to embezzle as much money as he and his extended clan can get away with whilst a war is fought over the barren wasteland that is his country.

If they say no, hit 'em and ask 'em again. Eventually you'll get the right answer.

[rvg]

I think that misses out the minor detail that Afghanistan and Iraq were actually invaded and did not exactly have a choice regarding the stationing of troops...

Iraq did have a choice, it expressed its choice, which is why we're out of there: they refused to extend the agreement. Same agreement is in place with Karzai.

If I was a Afghan village chief in a remote village who thinks all soldiers are Russian, how would you explain that to me after this ( supposed) spree of uncalled viollence. Sorry have some goats? Tell me how you are not being just conquering the place exactly, and why said chief should see it any differently

I'm not sure I understand your question.

[Fragony]

[QUOTE=rvg;2053431081I'm not sure I understand your question.[/QUOTE]

What do you want from them, to suddenly leave everything to you? Trust your courts? You are a foreign invader, you expect grattitude because you mowed their lawn but it's still your boot that really affects them more directly

[rvg]

What do you want from them, to suddenly leave everything to you? Trust your courts? You are a foreign invader, you expect grattitude because you mowed their lawn but it's still your boot that really affects them more directly

I don't really care what the average Nasratullah wants. Our government has an agreement with their government on how to handle these cases. Thus, the case will be handled according to the agreement. Public outcry over this while understandable is completely irrelevant.

[Kikuchiyo]

Our government has an agreement with their government

An agreement with a now infamous puppet regime and corrupt president - not an agreement with the Afghan people, the various tribes, etc...

[Vuk]

An agreement with a now infamous puppet regime and corrupt president - not an agreement with the Afghan people, the various tribes, etc...

That is how government has to operate cynwulf. If most of the Southern and Western states say that Obama is a corrupt president and that he is no longer representing the Country, does that mean they have the right to not abide by US treaties and to make their own laws? If you are going to get the benefits of being in a country and under a government, you have to follow the rules. In any county and under government you will have a significant body of people are unhappy with the current regime and think it dictatorial (you did with Bush, you do with Obama, you did with Clinton, etc, etc, etc). That does not mean that the people in that country don't have to obey their country's laws.

[Kikuchiyo]

Vuk there is a huge difference - unlike Karzai, Obama was not installed into office by an occupying force.

[rvg]

So now Iraq and Afghanistan chose to be invaded...?

Did I say that?

An agreement with a now infamous puppet regime and corrupt president - not an agreement with the Afghan people, the various tribes, etc...

The "infamous puppet regime" is what the U.N. recognizes as a legitimate afghan government. They'll do.

[Kikuchiyo]

I see people talking about a signed agreement regarding the deployment of troops, etc... such an agreement would only be relevant if the US and it's allies were invited in, in the first place...

Or is this a debate where we just pretend the Karzai regime is legit and just take it from there...?

[rvg]

I see people talking about a signed agreement regarding the deployment of troops, etc... such an agreement would only be relevant if the US and it's allies were invited in, in the first place...

Says who?

Or is this a debate where we just pretend the Karzai regime is legit and just take it from there...?

The U.N. pretends he's legit. That makes anything he signs legit. That's good enough for me. Public opinion on this is inconsequential.

[Kikuchiyo]

The U.N. pretends he's legit. That makes anything he signs legit. That's good enough for me. Public opinion on this is inconsequential.

I see... so if he's good enough for you and the UN, that's fine, the Afghan people don't even factor... that pretty much says it all.

[Fragony]

What kinda bothers me, this guy murdered a lot of people, just shot them including a 2 year old. Why would you do such a thing, and most of all why is American law so important here. It was a a two year old that got killed, she knows nothing about law. Why such trust in it, it can be so ugly, rip kiddie