Church leaders do not believe in a literal understanding of the Bible

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

It seems like you are going off on multiple other tangents

If you have made a promise to someone, but there is a strong reason to break it, and you can't quite figure out which is the moral course...it's often an illusion to think that there is a huge gap between the two options. In some cases you could literally flip a coin. I can't imagine why you think it is morally reprehensible to acknowledge that sometimes it's a tough break either way and you just have to pick.

Any system of morality that focuses on actions instead of people and uses bunches of strange theoretical situations is terrible.

edit: I think you will go nowhere with these generals nazi's babies examples. Simply enough, consider two values that can oppose each other. For example, family loyalty and legal justice. That kind of choice in many scenarios can easily make you throw your hands up in the air, you see that? In many cases like that I wouldn't even feel bad towards someone who made what I was pretty sure was the wrong choice, just because I can see what value they were going after and I don't think it's easy to do.

There was one conherent point there, enforced choices are immoral and you should fight them. I'm sorry if the examples were poorly framed.

As to your examples, those are easy.

Never break your word and uphold the law over any familial loyalty, unless the law is unjust in which case oppose it over any loyalty.

Loyalty implies oathtaking, lawbreakers are oathbreakers - outlaws and felons - you don't owe them anything because they cannot be trusted.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

As to your examples, those are easy.

Never break your word and uphold the law over any familial loyalty, unless the law is unjust in which case oppose it over any loyalty.

Loyalty implies oathtaking, lawbreakers are oathbreakers - outlaws and felons - you don't owe them anything because they cannot be trusted.

Very interesting. I don't agree in the slightest :D

Is it really easy to never ever break a promise and send your loved ones off to jail for their mistakes? Somehow I doubt it...

[Sigurd]

I tend to agree with Philipvs. I don't know why... Maybe we all adhere to different moral codes based on life situation/ upbringing etc.
I could never choose between my daughters. I would have attempted to save both or died trying. No philosopher juggle could change this.

[rory_20_uk]

Never break your word and uphold the law over any familial loyalty, unless the law is unjust in which case oppose it over any loyalty.

Loyalty implies oathtaking, lawbreakers are oathbreakers - outlaws and felons - you don't owe them anything because they cannot be trusted.

Sorry. Family first, second and third. Doing what's right is the same as doing what is right for one's family.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Very interesting. I don't agree in the slightest :D

Is it really easy to never ever break a promise and send your loved ones off to jail for their mistakes? Somehow I doubt it...

I didn't say it was easy to do, just easy to decide.

Surely you can appreciate the difference?

Sorry. Family first, second and third. Doing what's right is the same as doing what is right for one's family.

I see no reason why this should be so. If my son were a rapist I would shop him to the police myself so I didn't have to beat him to death. Family loyalty is a fine thing, but it has to be reciprocated.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I didn't say it was easy to do, just easy to decide.

Surely you can appreciate the difference?

I don't think the difference is important in this case...isn't the point exactly that someone working on strictly theoretical grounds can work out a whole system, but that those things have little application in real life? Also I agree with rory. Certainly the image of a husband being like "Yes officer, she WAS speeding" when they get pulled over is pretty silly don't you think? Is it telling that you picked one of the worst crimes for your example?

[rory_20_uk]

I see no reason why this should be so. If my son were a rapist I would shop him to the police myself so I didn't have to beat him to death. Family loyalty is a fine thing, but it has to be reciprocated.

There is no reason. It is simply my belief.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

There is no reason. It is simply my belief.

Fair enough, but it isn't mine.

[Kadagar_AV]

Church leaders do not believe in a literal understanding of the Bible

Title kind of makes sense. To be a leader you need some sort of brain, also in a church. So how could it possibly come as a surprise that church leaders in fact question the literal understanding of a book several hundred years old?

[Strike For The South]

Church leaders do not believe in a literal understanding of the Bible

Title kind of makes sense. To be a leader you need some sort of brain, also in a church. So how could it possibly come as a surprise that church leaders in fact question the literal understanding of a book several hundred years old?

And out of nowhere Kad comes streaking in from the far post

I guess now that springtime is almost here there are no more housewives on the slope

What a tragedy

[Papewaio]

There is no reason. It is simply my belief.

I take it you rank primitive genes above civilized memes?

Surely then you can't be against honour killings as it is about family first.

And how about if you found out a favourite uncle was molesting an unrelated child?

I'm sure there is a few areas where you still rank memes above genes...

[rory_20_uk]

I take it you rank primitive genes above civilized memes?

Surely then you can't be against honour killings as it is about family first.

And how about if you found out a favourite uncle was molesting an unrelated child?

I'm sure there is a few areas where you still rank memes above genes...

Honour killings are about killing one's family. That's hardly putting them first. And I am pretty confident that my family would not do such a thing. I am not concerned with what other families get up to, if it doesn't break the law. Honour killings does break UK law and hence should be stopped.

Uncle kiddie fiddler? Yes, that is a toughie. First off, I take it I'm certain my children are unaffected? Else his castrated body is going under a pile of lime in woodland. Past that point I would imagine it would be a case of getting support whilst trying to ensure the welfare of children.

In the general society I rank memes above genes as I have no particular interest in the genetic make up of general society. They are not mine so I have far less loyalty to them. Blood is thicker than water etc.