Legalizing Prostitution in Canada

[gaelic cowboy]

That's one of the reasons proponents put forward, but I've never heard a politician say it. Our government has never made it a secret that it's a source of income, everything else seems to be afterthought.

Not unlike that Russian minister who encouraged the people to smoke and drink more in order to help the treasury.

We havent put the price of Drink up in a while here cos the industry itself has had to raise prices due to rising commodities, so we can be fairly sure governments are ensuring revenue by not making it conducive to give up drinking.

[lars573]

Will legalizing prostitution make it better for the women? I'm not so sure.

I hardly expect respectable women to become prostitutes now and respectable businessmen to create a brothel brand - Here, at Millenium Brothels(tm), your satisfaction is our number one concern. I just don't see it happening.

More sinister brothels will remain underground and you will still be required to try to close them in the old fashioned way.

It should be noted that in Canada the actual concept of paying someone for sex isn't illegal. What is illegal is any conceivable way to ply and profit from that trade. The court ruling strikes down 2 such laws as unconstitutional, and mandates changing a third (about pimping). But leaves 1 about advertising in place.

[Husar]

Has anyone thought of Germany?
In brothels here the prostitutes usually rent a room and pay rent to the owner. That means no problems with so many employees and they take care of their own healthcare.
As such they are self-employed and just rent their workshop from a brothel owner.
Also don't forget demand, your average consumer may well be willing to pay a little more to go to a legal establishment because that way his own risks are far lower and he doesn't become a criminal himself.
You still get the underground scene most likely but it's reduced because the legal business gobbles up a large chunk of the demand.
Better to improve it for some than for noone?!

[Fragony]

Fragony: are you, by any chance, in favor of legalizing slavery?

No- but I am familiar with lefttist logic

[Montmorency]

No- but I am familiar with lefttist logic

Can't say the same regarding yours.

Has anyone thought of Germany?
In brothels here the prostitutes usually rent a room and pay rent to the owner. That means no problems with so many employees and they take care of their own healthcare.
As such they are self-employed and just rent their workshop from a brothel owner.
Also don't forget demand, your average consumer may well be willing to pay a little more to go to a legal establishment because that way his own risks are far lower and he doesn't become a criminal himself.
You still get the underground scene most likely but it's reduced because the legal business gobbles up a large chunk of the demand.
Better to improve it for some than for noone?!

Most people today are willing (at least implicitly) to pay higher food prices for higher quality and safety. The same principle should apply to prostitution. Someone who wants a $10 back-alley blowjob, is unable to pass a prior health screening, or unwilling to undergo the process, will still be able to obtain such an illegal service, and the risk of venereal disease that accompanies it.

To answer more or less of the concerns raised by patrons regarding legalisation: why not legislation that introduces graduated, increasing levels of regulatory burden over a decade or two? This gives time for everyone to acclimate, for some of the social stigma of being/relating with a prostitute to diminish, for collective organizations representing multiple prostitutes to arise (to distribute the burden, provide health care, etc.), and for the legal collectivities to edge out well-established illegal sources?

Society will continue to bear its share of marginal members no matter what legislation is enforced (unless it sets up the ultimate police state). Why, for the potential (highly dubious, that) sake of a very few of these, should the conditions of heightened risk to physical and all other sorts of well-being, as well as diminished legal and social standing, be pressed upon an entire subset of occupations?

Rescuing hookers from the difficulties of running a 'small business' isn't a good excuse either...

Something something...

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

But thats cos the government duty is high in order to drive government revenues up.

They say it's to make people give up but I doubt it to be honest, notice how they always seem to ensure it doesnt drive inflation up too much when they rise the price.

I think it's because, politically speaking, they have to be seen to be doing something to discourage people. High taxes on cigs are a political win-win viz raising taxes.

I imagine prostitution would be the same.

[HopAlongBunny]

The good news is that it brings at least part of the trade within the law. The people involved in a legitimate exchange of services have recourse to the law; huge step in the right direction.

Will there be illegitimate activity? Yes. The good news is that resources now spent chasing "no harm no foul" types of cases can be re-directed to deal with activity that causes real harm.

As to the "moral" dimension: I believe Christ did not exclude prostitutes from the congregation; should we then exclude them from society and the protection they deserve as citizens?

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

The good news is that it brings at least part of the trade within the law. The people involved in a legitimate exchange of services have recourse to the law; huge step in the right direction.

Will there be illegitimate activity? Yes. The good news is that resources now spent chasing "no harm no foul" types of cases can be re-directed to deal with activity that causes real harm.

Will that happen though?

Also, you have to ask, after this will girls still be "forced into prostitution" or will they just be "working in poor conditions."

There's a siesmic shift in making such an inherrently seedy and morally ambiguous proffession legal and legitimate - it ceses to be seen as a form of abuse, which is a big part of why it was made illegal to begin with.

[/quote]As to the "moral" dimension: I believe Christ did not exclude prostitutes from the congregation; should we then exclude them from society and the protection they deserve as citizens?[/QUOTE]

He excluded no one who repented - but is line on sexual mores is unremittingly harsh and draconian.

[PanzerJaeger]

There's a siesmic shift in making such an inherrently seedy and morally ambiguous proffession legal and legitimate - it ceses to be seen as a form of abuse, which is a big part of why it was made illegal to begin with.

I think you are conflating prostitution and abuse. The two can be separated, and often are.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I think you are conflating prostitution and abuse. The two can be separated, and often are.

I think your and misunderstanding me.

Prostitution is not necessarily abuse, but pimps are usually abusive, giving prostitution a veneer of respectability by making it legal has the potential to turn them into just "bad employers" which in turn has the potential to increase the abuse because the abused women are no more likely to file a civil suit than go to the police.

[Kralizec]

I think your and misunderstanding me.

Prostitution is not necessarily abuse, but pimps are usually abusive, giving prostitution a veneer of respectability by making it legal has the potential to turn them into just "bad employers" which in turn has the potential to increase the abuse because the abused women are no more likely to file a civil suit than go to the police.

If the act prostition is illegal, the prostitutes are less likely to go to the police as they'll face prosecution themselves. If it's pimping that is illegal, pimps will have (further) incentive to coerce women into submission as to prevent them from going to the police. If the customers are the ones who can be prosecuted, that opens the way to extortion and blackmail, and further encourages the coercion of prostitutes in order to keep their mouths shut, even if only to protect the clients.

It seems pretty obvious that having legal and regulated prostitution at least opens the possibility of effectively reducing the abuse. I've seen several people here argue that legalizing will make things worse, but not a lot of arguments to back that up, or at least not convincing ones.