Some questions about nutrition advice

[therother]

Where do you shop? In my experience, water's usually half the price of a bottle of cola

In the supermarket, yes. At my local sandwich shops the cheapest drink is often a can of Coke.

Yes, fats are also another energy source for the body. However, fats have their own problems when consumed in relatively large amounts and relying on fats to be the main provider of energy instead of carbohydrates or sugars is just swapping one set of problems for another.

Fats in relatively large amounts appear to have few (if any) side effects. The reason we know this is because of native populations who eat such diets without ill effects and that fat more than likely constituted the majority of calories in pre-agrarian societies. Anyway, even if you don't want to eat a mainly fat diet, you still don't need to eat sucrose or fructose. Starchy foods with a low glycemic index (eg nuts, seeds and beans) are much preferable to both, as starches are just long chains of glucose. BTW, sugars are carbohydrates.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Fats in relatively large amounts appear to have few (if any) side effects. The reason we know this is because of native populations who eat such diets without ill effects and that fat more than likely constituted the majority of calories in pre-agrarian societies.

Those societies do not reflect today's modern societies. The effects of a high fat diet are taking their toll on america right now.

Anyway, even if you don't want to eat a mainly fat diet, you still don't need to eat sucrose or fructose. Starchy foods with a low glycemic index (eg nuts, seeds and beans) are much preferable to both, as starches are just long chains of glucose.

Are you advocating for a no fruit diet?

BTW, sugars are carbohydrates.

Yes, but for all intents and purposes I talk about sugars as separate to distinguish between having lots of fruit/soda/sugary snacks and having lots of breads and other grain/wheat based foods.

[therother]

Those societies do not reflect today's modern societies. The effects of a high fat diet are taking their toll on america right now.

The effects of a diet that is making people fat is having a severe toll on America (and almost every country that shares that diet). Absent other factors, eating fat doesn't make you gain body fat though. Fatty foods are not particularly fattening. There is some evidence that eating high levels of fat and sugar together could makes things worse, but I think it would be a mistake to blame the fat for that.

Are you advocating for a no fruit diet?

Not quite no fruit, but certainly only restricted amounts and then only fruits with a low glycemic index (high fibre to sugar ratio). So no grapes and bananas...

[a completely inoffensive name]

The effects of a diet that is making people fat is having a severe toll on America (and almost every country that shares that diet). Absent other factors, eating fat doesn't make you gain body fat though. Fatty foods are not particularly fattening. There is some evidence that eating high levels of fat and sugar together could makes things worse, but I think it would be a mistake to blame the fat for that.

But what are people really eating? High fat content, large portion foods. From fast food chains like Taco Bell and Wendy's to the "sit down" restaurants like Applebee's, Ruby Tuesday, Chili's, Outback Steakhouse etc... It is quite apparent what is being eaten and what the trend is. Two plus two is.... indeterminable?

Not quite no fruit, but certainly only restricted amounts and then only fruits with a low glycemic index (high fibre to sugar ratio). So no grapes and bananas...

And this is where you start talking crazy. If we are going to portray grapes and banana's in a bad light, then it is suddenly easy to see how our dietary habits have gone so off track.

EDIT: And didn't you just tout the benefits of a nice red wine just a few posts ago?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Sugar makes you fat because it tastes really good so you keep eating sweets or drink a whole 16 oz coke...fat makes you fat because it tastes good and there's tons of calories per square inch (non technical units)...in other words, eating too much makes you fat?

I think all that fine tuning your diet (beyond just not eating too much) would do is let you "get a six pack"...someone eating bunches of sugar but not too many calories will probably just carry a few extra pounds around the waste, that's my impression from what I've read...so in other words, like, the optimal diet is over-determined for what most people need to eat to not get fat...

also, doesn't eating hardly any carbs make you tired and lacking energy for exercise?

[therother]

But what are people really eating? High fat content, large portion foods. From fast food chains like Taco Bell and Wendy's to the "sit down" restaurants like Applebee's, Ruby Tuesday, Chili's, Outback Steakhouse etc... It is quite apparent what is being eaten and what the trend is. Two plus two is.... indeterminable?

Sure, large portion sizes aren't great. The problems with fast food are legion: the food is processed to remove fibre, it's rich in refined carbohydrates like sugar and white flour, got loads of salt, and the meat itself is usually of poor quality and cooked in poor quality oils.

In terms of trends, Americans are getting at least 10% less calories from fat than they were in the 1970s (when obesity rates were much lower). Sadly, and this has been a complete disaster, as most people have replaced those fats with refined carbohydrates (particularly sugar).

If we are going to portray grapes and banana's in a bad light, then it is suddenly easy to see how our dietary habits have gone so off track.

I went a little too far. Bananas and grapes aren't bad per se, especially if you need an injection of energy, just that there are better choices for snacking that have the same benefits without so much sugar.

EDIT: And didn't you just tout the benefits of a nice red wine just a few posts ago?

I said that association studies link moderate red wine consumption with decreased CVD (but increased breast cancer). I also cautioned about confounders: such studies showed that vitamin supplements were good for you. Unfortunately, these studies didn't correct for the fact vitamin supplement use is correlated with how strongly people care about their diet. Follow up studies showed a negative impact for otherwise healthy people.

Sugar makes you fat because it tastes really good so you keep eating sweets or drink a whole 16 oz coke...fat makes you fat because it tastes good and there's tons of calories per square inch (non technical units)...in other words, eating too much makes you fat?

It's possible, at least for some. For others, it's more likely is that you eat too much because you are getting fat. Sugar is a special case. If you watch the Lustig video above he'll explain why sugar is very fattening indeed.

also, doesn't eating hardly any carbs make you tired and lacking energy for exercise?

Sugar withdrawal can make you feel tired, but afterwards you should feel fine. Simple carbs (like glucose-based drinks) can be good for giving large boosts to available energy for elite althetes, but the body can respond pretty quickly to a need for lots of extra energy by converting body fat to glucose.

[Rhyfelwyr]

I think this is all a bit unecessary, you don't need a perfect diet. Just as long as it isn't too bad.