The trial of Anders Behring Breivik

[HoreTore]

NDL, the norwegian affiliate of the EDL, refuses to disassociate themselves from Breivik.

Ronny Alte, the leader of NDL, is called as a witness(by the defence, I believe). He wants to distance himself as far as possible from Breivik in his testimony. Theleadership of NDL doesn't want that, so he has stwpped down as leader.

[Viking]

The organisation that was disgracefully infiltrated by commies. Who's who?

[Sigurd]

This piece of garbage is giving the media everything they want about the dangers of video games.
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012...res-the-facts/


He is doing more damage than Jack Thompson.

I have been following the case a little and about the part where he explains about the weapons he acquired and video games, the prosecutors wanted to know if he chose the weapons based on the games he played (Modern warfare etc.).
Breivik explained that it was the other way around. He first acquired the guns and then consciously acquired video games where these guns were used, to train with the different optics, as he so delicately puts it. And further, he uses these games as preparation for his assault, to desensitize. But it is not enough, and as he explains, he needs to condition his mentality over a longer period by mental exercises to be able to go through with this horrible but necessary act. Without it he wouldn't be able to endure the police questioning and the trial.

He basically rejects the prosecutors insinuation that it was because of the games that he planed the details of the assault.

[CrossLOPER]

He IS completely rational, in the worst possible way. He has whiped out the next gen of the elite. He's no ordinary terrorist this was all thought out until the tiniest detail

The "elites'" recruitment quota was exceeded by a magnitude of several times over because of his actions. He made a bomb and shot some kids in a nation where security was low. He also brought plenty of negative attention to those who hold his beliefs.

I must admit, I am still somewhat confused as to what this "multiculturalism" thing is that WEuropeans won't shut up about. Is this where your immigrants fail to integrate or something?

I have been following the case a little and about the part where he explains about the weapons he acquired and video games, the prosecutors wanted to know if he chose the weapons based on the games he played (Modern warfare etc.).
Breivik explained that it was the other way around. He first acquired the guns and then consciously acquired video games where these guns were used, to train with the different optics, as he so delicately puts it. And further, he uses these games as preparation for his assault, to desensitize. But it is not enough, and as he explains, he needs to condition his mentality over a longer period by mental exercises to be able to go through with this horrible but necessary act. Without it he wouldn't be able to endure the police questioning and the trial.

He basically rejects the prosecutors insinuation that it was because of the games that he planed the details of the assault.

I'm not sure if the journalists are contractually required to put out some sensationalism or they are just incapable of reading.

[Viking]

I must admit, I am still somewhat confused as to what this "multiculturalism" thing is that WEuropeans won't shut up about. Is this where your immigrants fail to integrate or something?

Multiculturalism is the logical consequence of mass immigration in an open society: immigrants will not give up their own culture as long as they can mingle with plenty people of their own, foreign background. It runs in parallel to intregration, mostly. More well-integrated immigrants do not have to contribute less to multiculturalism; integration is more about getting along better with people from the majority culture/other sub-cultures in the society.

One could say that the Jewish minorites here are an example of a well-integrated exoculture (a fancy word I just invented for "outside culture"), as they make little noise but still have their own distinct sub-culture. It seems accurate to say that when ABB talks about multiculturalism, he is only/mainly considering the muslim part of it. I have not heard him talk about other sub-cultures.

For the record, Oslo is by far the most multicultural city in Norway, both in terms of intensity and diversity. It is thus no surprise that ABB is from Oslo.

EDIT: and of course, Breivik's view is that the mass immigration has the purpose of creating a multicultural society, which becomes something else entirely.

[Lemur]

Interesting piece here. I especially like this bit:

"This guy wanted to kill me because I believe in democracy, openness, tolerance and dialogue," Wennesland, dressed in a hooded top and Converse shoes, said. "Well, **** it. If that is what he wanted to kill me for, I am going to carry on fighting for it."

[Rhyfelwyr]

Interesting piece here. I especially like this bit:

"This guy wanted to kill me because I believe in democracy, openness, tolerance and dialogue," Wennesland, dressed in a hooded top and Converse shoes, said. "Well, **** it. If that is what he wanted to kill me for, I am going to carry on fighting for it."

Well Breivik didn't really target him for any of those things, save perhaps tolerance for Muslims.

Looks like a lot of things have been projected on to the guy when he didn't really believe them.

But then again people have been pretty gung-ho with associating Breivik with every ideology they don't like.

I place Breivk less with the likes of political extremists eg Al-Qaeda, and more in the same category of people that carry ouf high-school shootings.

He wasn't part of a serious terrorist network, he was a loser with a crap life looking for a cause. He could have just done the world a favour and topped himself but every once in a while one of those types feels the need to take as many people as they can down with them.

[HoreTore]

I must admit, I am still somewhat confused as to what this "multiculturalism" thing is that WEuropeans won't shut up about. Is this where your immigrants fail to integrate or something?

I'm not sure if the journalists are contractually required to put out some sensationalism or they are just incapable of reading.

Multiculturalism in Breivik and his comrades view is the conspiracy by the political elite to destroy european culture by inporting a bunch of muslims. The end goal is complete control over every european, and a europe where no freedoms exist. They see this as a version of communism, hence the term culturalmarxism. The soviet version was economic marxism, ie. the planned economy. ABB believe that western marxists realized that was going to fail, and so chose a different path. They adopted a mixed economy, and instead infiltrated higher education, arts, media and of course politics. Thus, they control everything needed to brainwash the masses.

This is of course all rubbish, taken from thin air. The sane definition of multiculturalism is simply a state where one culture is not given preferential treatment over other cultures.

[HoreTore]

@Viking: ABB is from Skøyen, which is as white as you can get. Didn't stop him from bitching like a baby about his "rough teenage years". A wannabe gangstah kid who got smacked when he got uppity, is my conclusion. Heck, my own teenage years were rougher than his.

@Rhy: he most certainly are against those things. In alphabetical order:

Democracy: his vision of the perfect state is run by a council of the most senior knights of his imaginary order, who make sure his doctrine is followed by all of its subjects, in all parts of life. Ie. the very definition of a totalitarian state.

Openness: of course you won't get a lot of openness in such a system. He also advocates the systematical extermination of everyone who voices opinions he doesn't agree with. In fact, women should be barred from any influence in society, because he believes a statistically larger proportion of women vote left.

Tolerance: nothing he dislikes will be tolerated. Period. This ranges from sex to opinions to religion. Everyone has to adhere to his views or face punishment.

Dialogue: he has already proved that he prefers violence, because entering the public debate takes a certain level of dedication. He doesn't have that, so he decided to give it up and whine instead.

I find the lengths you go to defend racists and extremists quite interesting, Rhy.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Multiculturalism in Breivik and his comrades view is the conspiracy by the political elite to destroy european culture by inporting a bunch of muslims. The end goal is complete control over every european, and a europe where no freedoms exist. They see this as a version of communism, hence the term culturalmarxism. The soviet version was economic marxism, ie. the planned economy. ABB believe that western marxists realized that was going to fail, and so chose a different path. They adopted a mixed economy, and instead infiltrated higher education, arts, media and of course politics. Thus, they control everything needed to brainwash the masses.

This is of course all rubbish, taken from thin air. The sane definition of multiculturalism is simply a state where one culture is not given preferential treatment over other cultures.

It has already been proven that in Britain at least, Labour deliberately allowed mass immigration to generate a multicultural society.

[Rhyfelwyr]

I find the lengths you go to defend racists and extremists quite interesting, Rhy.

Woah, I have not in any way defended Breivik. I have defended racists and that I openly admit, but not Breivik.

If Breivik did indeed plan to run the country through a mysterious order of knights, than I hold my hands up and apologise, I was wrong.

From what I understood, his political views weren't that radical, and that his extremism was more in the lengths he went to to promote them. All I remember is that he seemed to oppose communism, Islam and Nazism, so everything from far-left to far-right. IIRC he subscribed to the Vienna school of thought on the economy, which would I think make him some sort of libertarian, and it is at least compatible with democracy. Didn't he see Muslims as a threat to democracy?

[HoreTore]

It has already been proven that in Britain at least, Labour deliberately allowed mass immigration to generate a multicultural society.

Ah, that quote again, eh? Why should you bother about it being retracted the day afterwards, when one can push it for all it's worth instead, eh?

Why care about things like truth, honesty and integrity, when one gets the chance to build on the Grand Conspiracy?

In short, you need more than one comment by a former advisor which was subsequently retracted as false by the author to build a conclusion like the one you did.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Ah, that quote again, eh? Why should you bother about it being retracted the day afterwards, when one can push it for all it's worth instead, eh?

Why care about things like truth, honesty and integrity, when one gets the chance to build on the Grand Conspiracy?

I don't think that there is a conspiracy, especially not with the Conservatives in power. Although I don't find it hard to believe at all that elements within Labour would be happy to take the measures described in the article.

As for the guy retracting the statement, I think that "truth, honesty and integrity" took a backseat to political pressure in his case.

[gaelic cowboy]

Well a man could of course say that the British have being encouraging immigrants for years.

Tis only lately they started getting upset about there former subjects following them home.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Well a man could of course say that the British have being encouraging immigrants for years.

Tis only lately they started getting upset about there former subjects following them home.

There was opposition to it from the start, look at the protests against the Asian Ugandan's that came here after Idi Amin chased them out.

And they were actually model citizens, they put the ordinary Briton to shame.

[HoreTore]

I don't think that there is a conspiracy, especially not with the Conservatives in power. Although I don't find it hard to believe at all that elements within Labour would be happy to take the measures described in the article.

As for the guy retracting the statement, I think that "truth, honesty and integrity" took a backseat to political pressure in his case.

A standard conclusion for conspiracy theorists. When someone points out holes in the conspiracy theory, it does not disprove it, it only proves that the conspiracy is even more powerful.

What a wonderful world.

Nonetheless, it is still way too little evidence to build your concusion. You're an educated man, Rhy, you know how proofs are built in social sciences.

[Greyblades]

And they were actually model citizens, they put the ordinary Briton to shame.

A headlouse puts an ordinary briton to shame.

Seriously though, it makes sense, the smart people in the world jump ship and move to more developed countries when possible, leaving behind the regular people and brain dead twits. First gen immigrants in britain are the cream while the natives are the same mix of cream and scum we started with.

[Viking]

@Viking: ABB is from Skøyen, which is as white as you can get. Didn't stop him from bitching like a baby about his "rough teenage years". A wannabe gangstah kid who got smacked when he got uppity, is my conclusion. Heck, my own teenage years were rougher than his.

1) Did he not spend most of his adult life in Oslo?
2) I am sure he ventured out of Oslo West every now and then, and he would not have to go further than Oslo S to get a multicultural experience; and it would be easy for him to venture a bit further east and see for himself what the status is there.

[a completely inoffensive name]

He IS completely rational, in the worst possible way. He has whiped out the next gen of the elite. He's no ordinary terrorist this was all thought out until the tiniest detail

And yet, by openly declaring his intentions and his "logic" he has made it so easy for the general public who is repulsed by him to go in the exact opposite direction of what he wants.

His action is inherently irrational. You don't publicly massacre innocents if you want to mold the world closer to your image. Whatever damage he has done to "the bad guys" will be healed and the public will welcome it. Despite the logical procession to get to his ultimate conclusion, the basic axioms must be off base to begin with.

[HoreTore]

In his own words, his actions have caused short term losses for his cause, but there will be a long term gain.

The persecution of what he calls "moderate cultural conservatives"(I believe he refers to those unwilling to kill people) is what he wants, as he believes such persecution will cause a number of them to radicalize and turn to violence.

His laywer has always said he has an 80-year perspective.

[a completely inoffensive name]

In his own words, his actions have caused short term losses for his cause, but there will be a long term gain.

The persecution of what he calls "moderate cultural conservatives"(I believe he refers to those unwilling to kill people) is what he wants, as he believes such persecution will cause a number of them to radicalize and turn to violence.

And thus according to his end game, the ideology dies out. Unless his logic is that the radicalized moderates will take control somehow?

[HoreTore]

And thus according to his end game, the ideology dies out. Unless his logic is that the radicalized moderates will take control somehow?

That's the plan. I don't have his own words on this, so this is my own thinking, but I believe he believes that the current society will create moderate conservatives, while actions like his will radicalize them. Also, in about 30 years, he believes that a civil war will break out. In this war, his radicalized conservatives will rally the white europeans, and a lot of people will join them.

[a completely inoffensive name]

That's the plan. I don't have his own words on this, so this is my own thinking, but I believe he believes that the current society will create moderate conservatives, while actions like his will radicalize them. Also, in about 30 years, he believes that a civil war will break out. In this war, his radicalized conservatives will rally the white europeans, and a lot of people will join them.

Sooooo a bunch of nonsense?

[HoreTore]

Sooooo a bunch of nonsense?

To us, yes.

But you should've gotten that clue already, from his claim that muslims are trying to take over europe, that there is no free speech here or that the left-wing governments act like dictators....

But hey, Hitlers views on jews were utter nonsense as well, and look where that got us.

[rvg]

...that there is no free speech here...

At least he got this part right.

[a completely inoffensive name]

To us, yes.

But you should've gotten that clue already, from his claim that muslims are trying to take over europe, that there is no free speech here or that the left-wing governments act like dictators....

But hey, Hitlers views on jews were utter nonsense as well, and look where that got us.

Well it just all seems to prove what I am saying. He has followed rational, logical steps in an inherently illogical based system. One where a wealth liberal democracy that has relatively decent long term wealth management polices has the potential of devolving into a civil war within 30 years.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

At least he got this part right.

Have you ever been here, to Europe I mean?

[Kralizec]

That's the plan. I don't have his own words on this, so this is my own thinking, but I believe he believes that the current society will create moderate conservatives, while actions like his will radicalize them. Also, in about 30 years, he believes that a civil war will break out. In this war, his radicalized conservatives will rally the white europeans, and a lot of people will join them.

Just like the Rote Armee Fraktion's spree of abuction and murder unleashed a proletarian revolution in western Germany last century and established a communist society....oh wait

(note: to clarify, I only agree with Fragony insofar that all radicals have a lot in common)

[rvg]

Have you ever been here, to Europe I mean?

Of course.

[Fragony]

Multiculturalism in Breivik and his comrades view is the conspiracy by the political elite to destroy european culture by inporting a bunch of muslims. The end goal is complete control over every european, and a europe where no freedoms exist. They see this as a version of communism, hence the term culturalmarxism. The soviet version was economic marxism, ie. the planned economy. ABB believe that western marxists realized that was going to fail, and so chose a different path. They adopted a mixed economy, and instead infiltrated higher education, arts, media and of course politics. Thus, they control everything needed to brainwash the masses.

This is of course all rubbish, taken from thin air. The sane definition of multiculturalism is simply a state where one culture is not given preferential treatment over other cultures.

It is? Why don't you google the Strasbourgh resolutions