This is the state of American education

**a completely inoffensive name** · 05-19-2012, 00:24

Originally Posted by Tellos Athenaios

My point exactly. The question is about as clear as it can possibly be to the intended audience (native speakers with an American education) and yet not only did one guy under some pressure fail to understand it (which could be the nerves, or being really bad at Math or whatever) a clear majority of the audience failed at the same task as well.

They're not all being extremely bad at basic calculations. But the wider context is, of course, that the USA's literacy rate isn't doing too well.

I don't get why you would rather believe that instead of math education being completely abysmal you want to say that American's just can't read.

**Tellos Athenaios** · 05-20-2012, 19:56

Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name

I don't get why you would rather believe that instead of math education being completely abysmal you want to say that American's just can't read.

The stats I recall from various Backroom debates on the subject. Then again, it could be my engineering bias -- I've long since learned to accept that for the "average" person "Math" is "hard" even if it's completely trivial stuff, so I tend to overlook Math difficulties as a problem.

**Kralizec** · 05-20-2012, 20:10

My old roommate was a math teacher (with on the job training for the math part; turns out he didn't like it and he's teaching different subjects now) at some point. He once showed me a test they held for 14-15 year olds who attend VMBO, which is the lowest tier of high-school education in the Netherlands. The questions were extremely easy, to me anyway and I'm guessing for most of you as well. One of the questions involved some random backstory and a function graph, with a clear upward curve. The question was basically "how can you tell that [whatever it was that's represented by Y] is increasing"....

I was told that most of the class passed that test, but I imagine that they wouldn't have gotten the question in the OP right either.

**Hamata** · 05-26-2012, 21:33

i stink at math especially when it comes to money. in canadian currency but i'm good at multiplication

**tibilicus** · 05-26-2012, 22:55

As an educated person I would have lost $15,000. I'm not stupid, I just suck at maths..

**PanzerJaeger** · 05-27-2012, 03:33

Originally Posted by tibilicus

As an educated person I would have lost $15,000. I'm not stupid, I just suck at maths..

Same. I could not figure it out in the ~two minutes he had. I understood the question and the terminology used, and the answer made sense when I heard it. With five minutes and a little more effort, I'm sure that I could have, but numbers just do not come naturally to me. The receptors in my brain simply are not geared for it. I had a private education, so I do not think this is necessarily an indictment of American education.

On that subject, one should remember that like every other national ranking, the relative extremes in the US as compared to other developed nations drag our education ranking down. America has plenty of very high quality schools, but they tend to follow the money whereas even the very poor in, say, Germany, can get a quality education. That is just the nature of our country. Our comparably libertarian outlook has both strengths and weaknesses versus more socialized nations.

It is a fallacy to claim Americans in general are less intelligent or that the American education system is failing based on national rankings. The system is failing a very specific segment of the population, which is in turn bringing the total average down. Schools in poor areas certainly need to be fixed, but their issues do not impact most Americans. Kids in suburbia are just as well educated as those in other developed nations. Those in the inner cities are not so lucky.

**a completely inoffensive name** · 05-31-2012, 07:24

Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger

On that subject, one should remember that like every other national ranking, the relative extremes in the US as compared to other developed nations drag our education ranking down. America has plenty of very high quality schools, but they tend to follow the money whereas even the very poor in, say, Germany, can get a quality education. That is just the nature of our country. Our comparably libertarian outlook has both strengths and weaknesses versus more socialized nations.
.

That's a pretty big weakness. Glad to know we are still the land of opportunity.

**Fragony** · 05-31-2012, 07:25

Originally Posted by Kralizec

My old roommate was a math teacher (with on the job training for the math part; turns out he didn't like it and he's teaching different subjects now) at some point. He once showed me a test they held for 14-15 year olds who attend VMBO, which is the lowest tier of high-school education in the Netherlands. The questions were extremely easy, to me anyway and I'm guessing for most of you as well. One of the questions involved some random backstory and a function graph, with a clear upward curve. The question was basically "how can you tell that [whatever it was that's represented by Y] is increasing"....

I was told that most of the class passed that test, but I imagine that they wouldn't have gotten the question in the OP right either.

I did math exams when it was still the mavo, did it on c. There three were overlapping overlapping circles which represented radio signals, question was which area could receive all signals. That question was worth 5 points. And before you laugh at me I did eventually end up on the VWO, skipped the Havo alltogether, skipped year 5 of the VWO and was allowed to do VWO exams the same year. That is skipping 3 years baby. Ended up on university the same year as the people who laughed when I said I wasn't doing mavo because I'm stupid.

(worked 3 year after Mavo, decided school was better)