North Carolina Passes Amendment Banning Same-sex Unions

[Kadagar_AV]

I don't know, I think Fragony shows a high level of intellectual maturity.

He is against it on an intuitive level, but has budged for arguments that he deemed fair from an intellectual standpoint. I think that gives him more cred than someone supporting it full heartedly.

[The Stranger]

but thats not what he said tho (or perhaps I just understood it wrong), what I couldnt grasp is that he doesnt agree with something (which does not mean intuitively) but he does support it.

i can understand that you ignore your gut feeling over rational argument but i didnt read that in his post. if thats what he meant tho its more understandable.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I don't know, I think Fragony shows a high level of intellectual maturity.

He is against it on an intuitive level, but has budged for arguments that he deemed fair from an intellectual standpoint. I think that gives him more cred than someone supporting it full heartedly.

I personally think it has to do with how you define a whole list of words, and thence concepts.

Both positions are intellectually defensible - but both spring from different worldviews. I would argue the reason many religious people object to including homosexual relationships under the heading "marriage" has to do with their view of society as a whole, not homosexuals specifically.

For me - it's like calling a fork a spoon, you eat with both but that doesn't mean they're the same thing.

[Kadagar_AV]

Well, maybe Frags can elaborate instead of us debating who of us got him right...

[Fragony]

You did.


First time I have been accused of intellectual maturity

[Kadagar_AV]

You did.

*does my little "I told You so" dance routine*

[The Stranger]

Frag should be more clear

[Fragony]

*does my little "I told You so" dance routine*

Oh grow up

[Visor]

I think that what Frag means is that when you look at Western society in general "Gay Marriage" fits in that frame, but he still doesn't really buy into it on an intuitive level.

Gay-Rights campaigners simply scream "homophobe" at all anti- arguments, which doesn't help. There's an awful lot of emotional blackmail coming from both sides and very little careful consideration of the issue.

For my self, I will continue to oppose it unless or until it is made law - when they then try and force the Churches to do something against their conciences I will oppose that on principle.

The emotional blackmail certainly does come from the gay side as well as from the anti arguments. It's ridiculous.

And to be quite honest, stupid. Gay "marriage" or whatever is hardly the most important thing on the planet at the moment. Give em civil unions, I'm fine with that. Give them the same legal rights, no reason why not.

[Papewaio]

Marriage is legalized by nation not planet.

How do brides refer to their wedding day? Unimportant, of little consequence, of no importance?
No, it's the biggest day of their lives (yet).

Marriage is seen as one of the most important ways couples tell society that they are in a long term commitment. It is a commitment to society that you as a loving couple are going to look after each other, for society to support that love in each other.

Rules of law are made and enforced for citizens by individual countries. Equality is one of the most important building blocks of a modern society.

The flip side is that most of us have a choice in being married, single or being in a de facto relationship. Why is the choices dependent on having a unmatched set of genitals?

[Papewaio]

Marriage is legalized by nation not planet.

How do brides refer to their wedding day? Unimportant, of little consequence, of no importance?
No, it's the biggest day of their lives (yet).

Marriage is seen as one of the most important ways couples tell society that they are in a long term commitment. It is a commitment to society that you as a loving couple are going to look after each other, for society to support that love in each other.

Rules of law are made and enforced for citizens by individual countries. Equality is one of the most important building blocks of a modern society.

The flip side is that most of us have a choice in being married, single or being in a de facto relationship. Why is the choices dependent on having a unmatched set of genitals?

[Skullheadhq]

Simple soloution all concepts of civil marraige/union etc are banned end of discussion.

Basically if you want a ceremony in a catholic church it will be no more or recognised by law than one in a pastafarian church.

This is the best solution. If people want to do a piece of theatre and call it marriage I wont stop it, but no state recognition for any type of marriage whatsoever.

'Thinking Anglicans'?

Choosing a name like that for themselves puts me off reading anything they have to say.

Thinking anglicans? Are there non-thinking Anglicans as well?

I am really beginning to despise Christians.

What would have happenend if I'd typed that I'm beginning to despise jews or muslims?
Anyway, you can despise me, but at least I won't despise you

[PanzerJaeger]

What would have happenend if I'd typed that I'm beginning to despise jews or muslims?
Anyway, you can despise me, but at least I won't despise you

'I'm beginning to despise jews or muslims?' would have been displayed on your monitor, assuming that your keyboard is plugged in.

More Christian charity from North Carolina. I would have thought that since the bill passed they would have transfered their righteous judgement to another topic. Guess not.

[Fragony]

Title on that video is misleading, but there sure is a long way to go

[Skullheadhq]

'I'm beginning to despise jews or muslims?' would have been displayed on your monitor, assuming that your keyboard is plugged in.

More Christian charity from North Carolina. I would have thought that since the bill passed they would have transfered their righteous judgement to another topic. Guess not.

Of course, one pastor represents the whole of Christianity. Anyway, does it surprise, or bother, you that not all people hold your opinions?

[a completely inoffensive name]

Of course, one pastor represents the whole of Christianity. Anyway, does it surprise, or bother, you that not all people hold your opinions?

I liked you better when you were a naive Communist.

[Skullheadhq]

I liked you better when you were a naive Communist.

That was years ago . I was converted to free-marketism (is that even a word). Besides, I am not really conservative or christian-democrat. I am more of a Euro-style liberal. I don't care what people do if they don't force their view of it down my throat with stupid rethoric (which both sides in this debate in America do). I wouldn't have voted against same-sex union in this referendum. If they want it let them have it. They won't stop nagging till they get it anyway.

I believe it is because rational, intelligent people

It always makes me smile when people call themselves rational and intelligent.

[Fragony]

I'll do it for him then, PJ is rational and intelligent.

[Vladimir]

I'll do it for him then, PJ is rational and intelligent.

And a bigot.

[Fragony]

And a bigot.

So am I, are you not? Time to build spaceships then you can be the captain

[Skullheadhq]

So am I, are you not? Time to build spaceships then you can be the captain

Whoa, I feel stupid for not understanding a thing you're saying.

[The Stranger]

you are being a bigot right now though...

allthough frag is universally accepted to be non comprehensible

[Vladimir]

So am I, are you not? Time to build spaceships then you can be the captain

No I'm not, but I play one in the Backroom [/joke]

I take it you're referring to the Frontroom thread? No Enterprise for you!