The mother of all backahnded compliments for the Dalai Lama

[HoreTore]

The sense of holiness is enough for me to label something a religion. That means buddhism is a religion. I see absolutely no need whatsoever for the "beginning and end"-stuff.

On that note, it also means that I don't regard scientology as a religion. But whatever, who cares abiut the loonies.



I do find it funny that the one who has previously called things like socialism and football "a religion", doesn't want to call buddhism a religion. In PVC's mind, everyone has a religion. Except buddhists, it seems...

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

The sense of holiness is enough for me to label something a religion. That means buddhism is a religion. I see absolutely no need whatsoever for the "beginning and end"-stuff.

On that note, it also means that I don't regard scientology as a religion. But whatever, who cares abiut the loonies.

Define "holiness"

I do find it funny that the one who has previously called things like socialism and football "a religion", doesn't want to call buddhism a religion. In PVC's mind, everyone has a religion. Except buddhists, it seems...

No, I don't believe I have.

I may have said that Socialism is "like a Religion" in that it offers a promise of a better future, and then criticised it for trying to change people to create that future on Earth.

Football - I can't recall anything I have ever said about football, except for the one time I mentioned a study which showed that men became tribalistic about football in the absense of any other "manly" outlet.

I think you are conflating me with other posters.

Even if I perhaps did at some point write "socialism is a religion" it would have been a term of scorn and derision, like saying "American Idol is a religion" - so your criticism rings hollow regardless, as I actually have respect for Buddhist beliefs, but not Socialist ones.

[HoreTore]

I can't define holinessm as it's not something I experience.

But I hear tell you religious folks are doing it. Including buddhists.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I can't define holinessm as it's not something I experience.

But I hear tell you religious folks are doing it. Including buddhists.

Is it the same thing - in a Christian context "holiness" would be a oneness with the will of God, i.e. a willing and diligent obedience. His Holyness the Dali Lama is actually a higher being, which is why he can choose whether or not to reincarnate (he has decided not to). Basically, he has more in common, metaphysically, with Jesus than the Pope.

[Centurion1]

Thank Mother Church I have religion that believes in incusivism so I don't have to walk around looking at people and thinking in my mind they go to hell.

[Kurando]

There's a great series of talks by translator John Peacock called "Buddhism Before Theravada" which get to the root of what Buddha was doing and why, and how it became what it is today.

http://www.audiodharma.org/series/207/talk/2602/

It's 5 hours of lectures, but time very well spent for anyone who is interesed. Without a doubt Peacock is one of the few westeners who is actually qualified to make such interpretations. The long and short of what he says is this:

The word "Buddhism" does not exist in any texts; it's a much later invention, and if it was to be translated it would be best translated as "wake up ism"

Buddhists in the countries which follow the older Pali texts: Laos, Thailand, Cambodia, Burma, Sri Lanka, are basically 100% practicing thru the lense of the Visuddhimagga, a massive treatise on Buddhism which was written in the 5th Century by a guy named Buddhaghosa. Peacock maintains that Buddhaghosa was not privy to the social and political climate that Buddhism was originally formed in, and thus there were a great number of finner points of the Buddha Dharma that Buddhaghosa misinterpreted or simply did not understand.

Peacock also maintains that over the course of many centuries Buddhism (especially in the countries not following the Pali cannon) has basically become re-infectied with a type of Brahmanism; this gradual shift has allowed various deities and rituals to creep into the original form of Buddhism which was formed largely as a satire of Brahmanism and contained no trace of worshiping deities, but instead placed deities in the same (but more refined) situation as humans and all other life forms which are trapped on the wheel of samsara.

Peacock also states that the Buddhism which is practiced in China, Korea, and Japan came about as sort of merging of Buddha Dharma and Taoism.

That's about the size of it, atleast according to Peacock. I'll take is word for it; compaired to myself or anyone else here his credentials are hopelessly impeccable...

The only critism I'd make of the lectures is that I don't think Peacock touches enough upon the huge influence that Greece had upon earily Buddhism. As far as I understand it, the entire idea of representing Buddha as statues, in tapestries and in other art forms 100% came from the Greeks. Before the Greeks came into the picture there are no records whatsoever of any physical representations of the Buddha. And the influence went both directions: it has also been said that Buddhist monks sent emissaries to the west during that era and that the Greek word "therapeutic" actually is attributated to the Theraputa (Theravada Monks) who visited Greece during the Ashoka period and apparently made quite an impression.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Thank Mother Church I have religion that believes in incusivism so I don't have to walk around looking at people and thinking in my mind they go to hell.

Was that an "I'm so awsome" post or are you having a dig at someone?

If the latter, I'm not sure who.

[Centurion1]

Was that an "I'm so awsome" post or are you having a dig at someone?

If the latter, I'm not sure who.

Not everything is an insult Phillips. It is something that when I look at my faith I'm truly happy
About. Religions that believe in inclusivity or predestination seems horrible to me

[Strike For The South]

Thank Mother Church I have religion that believes in incusivism so I don't have to walk around looking at people and thinking in my mind they go to hell.

This always cracks me up. The mental hoops people go through in order to reconcile their religion with the wider world.

It was difficult in the past, now it's nigh impossible.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

This always cracks me up. The mental hoops people go through in order to reconcile their religion with the wider world.

It was difficult in the past, now it's nigh impossible.

No it isn't - it's just impossible for you. Hence your loss of faith.

It is a great act of hubris to believe that your generation or its experiences are somehow different.

Litterally millions upon millions of words have been expended on the agony Christians feel in trying to determine who will and who won't go to hell, and how to deal with being incapable to tell while they are alive.