I had a copy of Mein Kampf.

[Fragony]

You shouldn't have made claims that you weren't sure about. I didn't read it either. So I was wondering who to trust about that book.

I made no claims I said I just assumed

[PanzerJaeger]

The anti-Semitism in Mein Kampf is pretty standard fare for 1930s Europe and not a particularly big part of the book. He did not discuss any plans for a Holocaust. After the war, Europe quickly foisted anti-Semitism on the Nazi movement which allowed the continent to collectively walk away from it. In reality, most people did not like the Jews - an attitude that dated back centuries based on the treatment Jesus received during his trial and crucifixion as described in the Bible. They did not want them all slaughtered, but such anti-Semitism was not uncommon or pushed to the fringes as it is in today's society. One could buy books detailing the Jew-Bolshevik theory in major book stores all across Europe, and discussing said theory in public was not socially ostracized as it would be today.

Is the book an original?

[InsaneApache]

Is the book an original?

Not sure but it looks old IIRC.

As the footys on we (him and me) have suspended the search.

News at 11.

[Moros]

It's illegal to have in our country which is ridiculous. Not because I'd enjoy reading it, did use it for making a spliff once though.
But how can you learn from this horrible past if you are not even allowed to study it for yourself. Idiots.

But yeah, strangely in some parts it is a big deal. I remember one of our more right wing politician being arrested when in the Netherlands for having Mein Kampf in his car.

[Major Robert Dump]

Whoa. Srsly, this book is actual illegal to possess in some places? I did not know this, I thought u guys were joking

[Fragony]

Whoa. Srsly, this book is actual illegal to possess in some places? I did not know this, I thought u guys were joking

Can't speak for Belgium but it's not illegal here. Nobody wants to publish it so it's hard to get, but you can find it in the library

[Noncommunist]

Really, I just think she is just trying to sound smarter than other people, because the overwhelming majority of americans have no idea what the book is or what it means, but seriosuly, she mentions it like every 5th interview

While there can be a lot of ignorance, I'd say Mein Kampf is fairly well known and associated with Hitler.

[Strike For The South]

The anti-Semitism in Mein Kampf is pretty standard fare for 1930s Europe and not a particularly big part of the book. He did not discuss any plans for a Holocaust. After the war, Europe quickly foisted anti-Semitism on the Nazi movement which allowed the continent to collectively walk away from it. In reality, most people did not like the Jews - an attitude that dated back centuries based on the treatment Jesus received during his trial and crucifixion as described in the Bible. They did not want them all slaughtered, but such anti-Semitism was not uncommon or pushed to the fringes as it is in today's society. One could buy books detailing the Jew-Bolshevik theory in major book stores all across Europe, and discussing said theory in public was not socially ostracized as it would be today.

This is what I came to say. Mostly to refute Kadgars insane claim that Germany should have seen this coming as soon as the book was published. Strong words from a man whose country had a eugenics program well into the 70s

[Fragony]

This is what I came to say. Mostly to refute Kadgars insane claim that Germany should have seen this coming as soon as the book was published. Strong words from a man whose country had a eugenics program well into the 70s

I think that was Norway

[Skullheadhq]

In reality, most people did not like the Jews - an attitude that dated back centuries based on the treatment Jesus received during his trial and crucifixion as described in the Bible.

It went farther back. Antiochus IV, who ruled a multicultural empire, had a big disdain for Jews. According to Suetonius Emperor Claudius expelled the Jews in 49AD from Rome, Josephus, in his Jewish Antiquities, says that Tiberius as well ordered all Jews to be banished from Rome, the city which tolerated diversity the most (see Juvenal's Satires for that). Philo describes how the pagans in Alexandria attacked the Jews.

But it went even farther back. Tacitus once said: "When the East was under the dominion of the Assyrians, Medes, and Persians, the Jews were regarded as the meanest of their subjects.” Makes you wonder why so many peoples, of so many religions and of every time hated the Jews.

[Fragony]

A much less known one, http://www.marxists.org/francais/mar...m18430001a.htm

And yes K stands for Karl

[InsaneApache]

This is what I came to say. Mostly to refute Kadgars insane claim that Germany should have seen this coming as soon as the book was published. Strong words from a man whose country had a eugenics program well into the 70s

Blimey.

[Kadagar_AV]

This is what I came to say. Mostly to refute Kadgars insane claim that Germany should have seen this coming as soon as the book was published. Strong words from a man whose country had a eugenics program well into the 70s

I will grant that media and the intellectuals are the ones who are most to blame. But I still do believe that in a democrazy the people must be held responsible, and must be expected to educate themselves as to what they are voting for. And it's not like "Mein Kampf" was the only source the Germans had about Hitlers political views. He made some rather extreme speeches leading up to his election.

And what's wrong with a eugenics program?

Is it more "humane" to let mentally handicapped people get kids and then take the kids away from them, like the situation is now? Today's solution is equally inhumane or worse imho, and costs the state way more.

[Kadagar_AV]

It bothers me when an obviously intellectual person such as yourself calls other people 'intellectuals' like its a bad thing.

You read me wrong then mate, or maybe I was a bit unclear.

It is the intellectuals role, job if you so like, to cut through the political mist and show the populace the naked truth behind.

[Kadagar_AV]

Ah, my bad. Misunderstood. Anti-Intellectualism has been on the rise here in the USA for some time, I'm afraid.

Yeah, I know... It scares the living **** out of me... When "... and he speaks french!" is used as a negative statement about someones abilities to lead the country, I for one think the nation at large is on the wrong track.

Putin is fluid in 4 languages, our own prime minister in 3...

I seriously question the thinking behind the latest wave of anti-intellectualism in the states.

[Strike For The South]

Blimey.

It's the truth...at least for continental Europe. Does everyone forget the pogoms and the Dreyfus affair as soon as Germany is brought up? I hate the Krauts as much as the next Anglo but you and I both know Hitler was speaking in a vaccum.

This does not excuse his actions, the good guys still won, BMW will never compare to Aston Martin....Have I said enough to cover my arse or am now branded a cloest NAZI?

And what's wrong with a eugenics program?
.

They don't work

I can expand on this if you like, but I warn you Kadagar, you are becoming dangerously close to tolerable and if you continue to defend eugenics you will be put in the same pile as RVG and Vuk under people I blatantly personaly attack because Im petty

[Kadagar_AV]

They don't work

I can expand on this if you like, but I warn you Kadagar, you are becoming dangerously close to tolerable and if you continue to defend eugenics you will be put in the same pile as RVG and Vuk under people I blatantly personaly attack because Im petty

After WW2 the program was but a shadow of itself, and after the 60's liberation only very extreme cases were handled by this program, if memory serves me right. As an example, very mentally challenged people with an overly high sex drive got snip sniped...

The measuring skulls and cleansing of society the program started out as is thus not at all something I defend. I have written about that before on these boards. Look at horses, they are super bred,, and the last time a horse set a world record was what? Some couple of hundred years ago?

There is very little differences between the best and worst horses, wheras humans have a very chaotic genestock. We have our Einsteins and our drooling morons. But without the latter we wouldn't have the former.

However, as I said and will continue to defend, in some cases todays morals are more harmful to the person, and more costly for society at large. Also, some extreme cases of rapists I wouldn't mind seeing snipped.

Hmmm, you are however right that this should be a separate debate to eugenics at large, as the basic thinking is different.

Worst case, on topic, I have sen was in England with Alan Turing. One of England's sharpest minds throughout the ages, who's efforts in cracking the Nazis Enigma code can't be lauded enough, was unfortunately the Gay, got handled by the program, and consequently killed himself. Way to treat ones heroes. Way to treat ones sharpest minds.

[Strike For The South]

After WW2 the program was but a shadow of itself, and after the 60's liberation only very extreme cases were handled by this program, if memory serves me right. As an example, very mentally challenged people with an overly high sex drive got snip sniped...

To put this quite simply: Retards do not beget reatards, "Edit: incorrect as inbreeding can result in multigenerational IQ changes both positive and negative, also the insult that followed was neither informative, in the spirit of the backroom or remotely funny."

The measuring skulls and cleansing of society the program started out as is thus not at all something I defend. I have written about that before on these boards. Look at horses, they are super bred,, and the last time a horse set a world record was what? Some couple of hundred years ago?

The 10 fastest times in the Kentucky debry are all post 1962 with 4 being post 2000. The race started in 1875. So while you are correct, your example is wrong. Studs impregnate many mares but few go on to be champions

[/QUOTE]There is very little differences between the best and worst horses,[/QUOTE]

Insert ROFLCOPPTER .GIF. Your ignorance is palpable. Just becuase you don't see the difference doesn't mean it isn't there.

wheras humans have a very chaotic genestock

What defines a chaotic genestock? Oh here it is. Something Kadgar can see the difference in.

We have our Einsteins and our drooling morons. But without the latter we wouldn't have the former. However, as I said and will continue to defend, in some cases todays morals are more harmful to the person, and more costly for society at large.

What does this even mean? We need the mentally retarded to have genuises? Is there a 1:1 to genuis-retard ratio or, keeping with theme of Eugenics, is it 5 retards for every one genuis?

Also, some extreme cases of rapists I wouldn't mind seeing snipped.

Crime-Consequence/=/ Eugenics

[Kadagar_AV]

Starting up by insinuating the opposing partner in a debate was, last time I checked, something generally frowned upon here. It also make me less inclined to give you a proper answer.

[Strike For The South]

Starting up by insinuating the opposing partner in a debate was, last time I checked, something generally frowned upon here. It also make me less inclined to give you a proper answer.

People don't give answers becuase they are wrong. If you don't give an answer becuase something I have said offended you, you are a charlatan.

[Major Robert Dump]

While there can be a lot of ignorance, I'd say Mein Kampf is fairly well known and associated with Hitler.

On what planet?
Who knows this, intellectuals and educated folk? Maybe a writer and politician here and there? Probably some librarians?
An 10th greader may know it for, like, 5 days after learning about it in world history.


I can promise you that the vast, overwhelming majority of the population in the USA does not know what this book is. Which is why I brought up how people use it during arguments to sound smarter than the others. You could even maybe trick people into googling it and getting arrested

[Moros]

It went farther back. Antiochus IV, who ruled a multicultural empire, had a big disdain for Jews. According to Suetonius Emperor Claudius expelled the Jews in 49AD from Rome, Josephus, in his Jewish Antiquities, says that Tiberius as well ordered all Jews to be banished from Rome, the city which tolerated diversity the most (see Juvenal's Satires for that). Philo describes how the pagans in Alexandria attacked the Jews.

While the Jews were very much indeed frowned upon as an oddity and as peculiar. But the case of Antiochos IV is actually portrayed very wrongly in the Jewish histories. A. IV actually used standard punishments to the jews, which were short and temporary according to the standard surrender and grant model. The jews didn't win a war, the high priest (forgot the technical term) used standard diplomacy to pursue their former rights back as much as possible. Which was also standard.

The Hellenes and Romans powers just didn't know how to handle them. There surely were some anti-jewish sentiments with certain people. But they were somewhat a reaction to the 'difficult' jews and of course people always look wierd to people who are different. In a way they were nothing but barbarians, but difficult ones of who a large part didn't want to integrate or assimilate in the Hellenic and later Romans systems. Not that I want to justify the ancient sentiments, but actually they are overstated. If anything anti-jewish sentiments are due to Christianity and their role as moneylenders,... Well at least if you ask me...

[Kralizec]

It went farther back. Antiochus IV, who ruled a multicultural empire, had a big disdain for Jews. According to Suetonius Emperor Claudius expelled the Jews in 49AD from Rome, Josephus, in his Jewish Antiquities, says that Tiberius as well ordered all Jews to be banished from Rome, the city which tolerated diversity the most (see Juvenal's Satires for that). Philo describes how the pagans in Alexandria attacked the Jews.

But it went even farther back. Tacitus once said: "When the East was under the dominion of the Assyrians, Medes, and Persians, the Jews were regarded as the meanest of their subjects.” Makes you wonder why so many peoples, of so many religions and of every time hated the Jews.

I've read a theory that "popular anti-semitism" began in Hellenistic Egypt. Jews were hired as soldiers and settled along the Nile en masse by the Greek rulers. The jews and the native Egyptians were antagonistic to eachother for obvious reasons. The theory is that these anti-jewish sentiments gradually found their way up to the Greek ruling class.

Afterwards, there were of course incidents that would consolidate anti-semetic sentiments, whatever their origin may be: the various revolts against the Seleucids and the Romans. The one thing which distinguished the jews from the rest of the polytheistic Roman empire was the "exclusiveness" of their religion: any other gods but their own were false, without exception. This was tantamount to blasphemy, which was especially in earlier times considered inviting divine wrath, and in later times was thought to be undermining the state.

[Kadagar_AV]

The Jews have a lot to answer for.

In Sweden, most of the main media is Jewish. I think that holds true in other countries as well.

To have a group of citizens within national borders who constantly do under-the-table deals to raise their own in society, and who put their minority group before the nation they live in, will after a while start to sting in most peoples eyes.

I for one would be happier if all Jews moved to Israel.

[Kralizec]

Is that sarcastic? Are you trolling?

[Kadagar_AV]

Is that sarcastic? Are you trolling?

No.

[Montmorency]

Not enough room. They would need to grab some neighbori...

Anyway, not all Jews reserve full loyalty to a Zionist super-collective.

Now hande hoch, Hitler kaputt.

[Kadagar_AV]

Not enough room. They would need to grab some neighbori...

Anyway, not all Jews reserve full loyalty to a Zionist super-collective.

Now hande hoch, Hitler kaputt.

I know the Jews have got a free pass after WWII, kind of like the "get out of jail" card in monopoly. However, you all on this forum should be intellectual enough to accept that one can criticize Jews without looking for a WWII German solution to the problem.

Look at Israel, they do a LOT of bad stuff and mainly get away with it in Western media, because of this said monopoly card.


Is it so strange to accept that one can think that a minority in one's country, who help and support each other primarily, who get funded from overseas, who follow an agenda not always in line with the national one... Is a bit of a problem?

I think the same of Muslim people.

Just, the Muslims are living in ghettos throwing stones at ambulances. The Jews control many of our banks and much of our media.

I think my country would be better off if the Jews all went to Israel, it was a country given to the Jews, so they could live on happily being Jewish. So why are they still here, working against what I believe in?



EDIT: I know not all Jews are part. Some are Jewish first, some are Swedish first. Those who are Jewish first should go to Israel.

[Montmorency]

Look at Israel, they do a LOT of bad stuff and mainly get away with it in Western media, because of this said monopoly card.

So, make them stronger and embolden them against the rest of the world?

I think my country would be better off if the Jews all went to Israel, it was a country given to the Jews, so they could live on happily being Jewish. So why are they still here, working against what I believe in?

What do you believe? That Jews should know their place?

I know not all Jews are part. Some are Jewish first, some are Swedish first. Those who are Jewish first should go to Israel.

You sound like a right-wing American pundit here...

[Kadagar_AV]

So, make them stronger and embolden them against the rest of the world?



What do you believe? That Jews should know their place?



You sound like a right-wing American pundit here...

I didn't get your first point.

As to your second point, I believe my country is better off without religious minority groups having a big say in public matters, yes. EDIT: I wish Jews knew their LOCATION, not place... The words are related but half a world apart.

As to your third point, That is quite an insult. But then I wont report it as I agree, it does sound terrible. I wish I wouldn't have this stance, but my reality is what it is.