Fast and Furious

[Crazed Rabbit]

A rebuttal to Fortune's investigation;

In 2010, a gun dealer emailed Voth because a straw purchaser had placed a large order and the dealer wanted to know if he should order more stock. Once again, so he could comply with ATF's order to sell. Voth told him, go right ahead. Order the guns, sell to the bad guys.

On June 17, 2010 a concerned dealer wrote, "As per our discussion about over communicating I wanted to share some concerns that came up. Tuesday night I watched a segment of a Fox News report about firearms and the border. The segment, if the information was correct, is disturbing to me. When you, Emory and I met on May 13th I shared my concerns with you guys that I wanted to make sure that none of the firearms that were sold per our conversation with you and various ATF agents could or would ever end up south of the border or in the hands of the bad guys. I guess I am looking for a bit of reassurance that the guns are not getting south or in wrong hands. I know it is an ongoing investigation so there is limited information you can share with me. But as I said in our meeting, I want to help ATF with its investigation but not at the risk of agents [sic] safety because I have some very close friends that are U.S. Border Patrol agents in southern AZ as well as my concern for all the agents [sic] safety that protect our country. If possible please email me back and share with me any reassurances that you can. As always thank you for your time and I send this email with all respect and a heart felt concern to do the right thing."

Voth sent an email on April 2, 2010 saying, "Our subjects purchased 359 firearms during the month of March alone, to include numerous Barrett .50 caliber rifles," he went on, "I believe we are righteous in our plan to dismantle this entire organization and to rush in to arrest any one person without taking in to account the entire scope of the conspiracy would be ill advices to the overall good of the mission." In another email, Voth mentioned 1200 people killed in March 2010, yet still called the program "righteous."

Becca Watkins, House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform spokeswoman, has issued the following statement:

“Fortune’s story is a fantasy made up almost entirely from the accounts of individuals involved in the reckless tactics that took place in Operation Fast and Furious. It contains factual errors – including the false statement that Chairman Issa has called for Attorney General Holder’s resignation – and multiple distortions. It also hides critical information from readers – including a report in the Wall Street Journal – indicating that its primary sources may be facing criminal charges. Congressional staff gave Fortune Magazine numerous examples of false statements made by the story’s primary source and the magazine did not dispute this information. It did not, however, explain this material to its readers. The one point of agreement the Committee has with this story is its emphasis on the role Justice Department prosecutors, not just ATF agents, played in guns being transferred to drug cartels in Mexico. The allegations made in the story have been examined and rejected by congressional Republicans, Democrats, and the Justice Department.”

So it seems you shouldn't write 'investigations' based on interviewing just the accused people.

CR

[Lemur]

So it seems you shouldn't write 'investigations' based on interviewing just the accused people.

Fortune reviewed more than 2,000 pages of confidential ATF documents and interviewed 39 people, including seven law-enforcement agents with direct knowledge of the case.

Incidentally, I think there's reasonable doubt about nearly everyone involved in the current Kabuki theater. Issa and his staff have a lot riding on this being a scandal bigger then Watergate, Voth is under investigation, Dodson clearly has his own agenda, prosecutors such as Emory Hurley have some very strange behavior to answer for, Holder has been in damage control mode so long I doubt he knows what not being in damage control feels like, Obama wants to limit the scandal, the ATF has been functioning as an abused child since Waco, and congressional Republicans are so committed to making President 44 a one-termer that there's little they wouldn't do short of open violence to undermine the administration.

Throw in the far-fetched and generally delusional conspiracy theories that are being floated by people who know better.

I think it's dangerous to take anyone in this situation at their word. So I appreciate Fortune's reporting, much as I appreciate the links to original emails and documents.

[Xiahou]

I think it's dangerous to take anyone in this situation at their word. So I appreciate Fortune's reporting, much as I appreciate the links to original emails and documents.

I tend to think primary sources are due more "appreciation" than secondary sources and beyond.... Release the documents- it's the only way this will get beyond the contradicting claims.

Also, as to the contempt charges, I think it's nice to see the legislative branch finally make an attempt to assert itself against the executive. It's an improvement from the subservient role it assigned itself for the last.... 12 years?

[Lemur]

Release the documents- it's the only way this will get beyond the contradicting claims.

I was under the impression that thousands of documents had already been released to the subcommittee. The disagreement was over scope, not whether or not anything would be released.

Anyway, with the contempt vote I think we are seeing the end of the investigation, not the beginning. Now the ATF can go back to being shell-shocked and frightened of their own shadow, and the NRA can claim yet another victory against NOBAMA taking all of our guns away.

In a similar vein, I would like to claim victory against the ice giants. What's that you say? There are no ice giants? Hence my victory.

[Xiahou]

I was under the impression that thousands of documents had already been released to the subcommittee. The disagreement was over scope, not whether or not anything would be released.

Yes, they've released a fraction of what was requested- good on them.

Anyway, with the contempt vote I think we are seeing the end of the investigation, not the beginning. Now the ATF can go back to being shell-shocked and frightened of their own shadow, and the NRA can claim yet another victory against NOBAMA taking all of our guns away.

Of course- the investigation could have continued completely unimpeded without the requested information. You don't need evidence for an investigation. Just be happy with whatever they give you.

In a similar vein, I would like to claim victory against the ice giants. What's that you say? There are no ice giants? Hence my victory.

What are you talking about?

[Lemur]

Yes, they've released a fraction of what was requested- good on them.

In your earlier post, you phrased it as a blanket "Release the documents"; some small clarification was in order.

What are you talking about?

Jokes, like cats, die when dissected. But I assure you one sentence follows the other.

[Montmorency]

Jokes, like cats, die when dissected.

If they need to be dissected, they are already dead.