Six Policies Economists Love and Politicians Hate

[HoreTore]

I always find it fascinating that when a libertarian wants to fix the economy, they want to change something in the public sector.

Apparently, it's the belief of the libertarians that the market cannot turn things around, they need to use to state to turn things around... Just like any good little commie does.

[Fragony]

I always find it fascinating that when a libertarian wants to fix the economy, they want to change something in the public sector.

Apparently, it's the belief of the libertarians that the market cannot turn things around, they need to use to state to turn things around... Just like any good little commie does.

Ok explain that one, I see leftist logic, everywhere

[HoreTore]

Ok explain that one, I see leftist logic, everywhere

I have the worst hangover ever, so my ability to formulate what I want to say is probably not very good today.

I'll try again: Libertarians wants a minimalist state, and to have problems solved in the market. However, when society faces a problem, they don't seem to talk about what the market should do to solve it, but rather discuss how changing the state will fix the problem.

For example, take the problem with rising house prices. The libertarian solution is to change the state a little(remove a tax cut), not one word about how the market can work within its current set of laws and regulations to fix the problem.

[Ironside]

I have the worst hangover ever, so my ability to formulate what I want to say is probably not very good today.

I'll try again: Libertarians wants a minimalist state, and to have problems solved in the market. However, when society faces a problem, they don't seem to talk about what the market should do to solve it, but rather discuss how changing the state will fix the problem.

For example, take the problem with rising house prices. The libertarian solution is to change the state a little(remove a tax cut), not one word about how the market can work within its current set of laws and regulations to fix the problem.

That's because the underlying assumption is that the market will fix the problem by default. So simply applying the free market is enough. Unless when it isn't, but that almost never happens does it.

It would be simular to a leftie always saying that taxing and regulating it should work.

[HoreTore]

That's because the underlying assumption is that the market will fix the problem by default. So simply applying the free market is enough. Unless when it isn't, but that almost never happens does it.

It would be simular to a leftie always saying that taxing and regulating it should work.

Yes, but that's the thing, isn't it? In addition to regulation, "lefties" say things like "priate companies should show more restraint with ceo wages", which is an appeal to the market to fix things without the state intervening.

We don't see the same from those who truly believe in the free market. And that puzzles me. Is the market so weak that a single regulation renders it unworkable? Why would we ever want it then?

[Fragony]

Yes, but that's the thing, isn't it? In addition to regulation, "lefties" say things like "priate companies should show more restraint with ceo wages", which is an appeal to the market to fix things without the state intervening.

We don't see the same from those who truly believe in the free market. And that puzzles me. Is the market so weak that a single regulation renders it unworkable? Why would we ever want it then?

The wages at the top are nothing compared to the money that actually flowing, you want the best person on top of it, you just don't get the guy but also his network. Cutting their wages is just false symbolism from politicians. Doesn't mean they shouldn't be held unaccountable, the banks who got government support are on a tight leash, rightfully so imho

[Lemur]

Since this thread is entirely about taxation, seems like the right place to leave this article. American tax system: perfectly flat?

federal income taxes account for just 27% of total government revenue collected in America. And the remaining three-quarters of the tax pie is quite regressive. The middle class may not pay much federal income tax. But they sure pay the payroll tax for Social Security and Medicare, which the rich can mostly skip out on since it only applies to the first $110,000 of wage income. (The Medicare levy, unlike its bigger Social Security counterpart, is not capped). The masses also pay a much greater share of their income in sales and excise taxes than the rich do, because they cannot afford to save.

The fact of the matter is that the American tax code as a whole is almost perfectly flat. The bottom 20% of earners make 3% of the income and pay 2% of the taxes; the middle 20% make 11% and pay 10%; and the top 1% make 21% and pay 22%. Steve Forbes couldn’t have drawn it up any better.

[Crazed Rabbit]

I always find it fascinating that when a libertarian wants to fix the economy, they want to change something in the public sector.

Apparently, it's the belief of the libertarians that the market cannot turn things around, they need to use to state to turn things around... Just like any good little commie does.

Or, you know, it's distortion caused by government intervention in the first place, and the simplest way to correct is to lessen how the government intervenes.

For example, take the problem with rising house prices. The libertarian solution is to change the state a little(remove a tax cut), not one word about how the market can work within its current set of laws and regulations to fix the problem.

Like I said - lessen the government intervention in order to let the free market fix things. With these issues, it's not the the free market can't lead to a better solution, but that the government is actively preventing this.

CR

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

CR, do you play any of the Elder Scrolls games?

Take a look here: http://oblivion.nexusmods.com/mods/topalltime/?adult=0

See the top 25 files of all time? Naked chicks, skimpy outfits and actual in game porn.

That's the free market for you, right there.

[Greyblades]

CR, do you play any of the Elder Scrolls games?

Take a look here: http://oblivion.nexusmods.com/mods/topalltime/?adult=0

See the top 25 files of all time? Naked chicks, skimpy outfits and actual in game porn.

That's the free market for you, right there.

First, You do realise the list you linked to had only 2 files that are even slightly pornographic in any way, in the top 25, right?
Second. What the heck does the elder scrolls' modding scene got to do with free markets?

[Papewaio]

Interesting I thought most of the action to resolve the GFC was government bailing out private companies not vice a versa.

Corporations are formed to protect shareholder investments. Unfettered there is nothing that stops chemical companies dumping waste in rivers as long as the shareholder profits. So can someone explain to me again how maximized profit for some means better quality of life for all. Because this is the assumption that the free market is a better choice then a regulated one.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Interesting I thought most of the action to resolve the GFC was government bailing out private companies not vice a versa.

Corporations are formed to protect shareholder investments. Unfettered there is nothing that stops chemical companies dumping waste in rivers as long as the shareholder profits. So can someone explain to me again how maximized profit for some means better quality of life for all. Because this is the assumption that the free market is a better choice then a regulated one.

It isn't and "maximise the profit margin" should not be the driving force behind Capitalism, efficient long term investment of Capital should be.

The clue is in the name and as these people aren't proper Capitalists I see no philosophical reason why an actual Capitalist should object to regulating them.

[ajaxfetish]

Corporations are formed to protect shareholder investments. Unfettered there is nothing that stops chemical companies dumping waste in rivers as long as the shareholder profits. So can someone explain to me again how maximized profit for some means better quality of life for all.

I think most libertarians would agree that preventing companies from dumping waste in shared natural resources is one place the government SHOULD intervene.

Ajax

[a completely inoffensive name]

I think most libertarians would agree that preventing companies from dumping waste in shared natural resources is one place the government SHOULD intervene.

Ajax

That's interesting because I hear calls from libertarians to eliminate the EPA entirely.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Interesting I thought most of the action to resolve the GFC was government bailing out private companies not vice a versa.

Corporations are formed to protect shareholder investments. Unfettered there is nothing that stops chemical companies dumping waste in rivers as long as the shareholder profits. So can someone explain to me again how maximized profit for some means better quality of life for all. Because this is the assumption that the free market is a better choice then a regulated one.

Absent regulation (and I do support environmental regulations) there are things that stop dumping toxic chemicals; private agreements between the company and people who live nearby, the shareholders/workers not wanting the dumping of chemicals because they don't want to ingest chemicals, etc. But that's beside the point.

You're arguing a position that no one is taking, and then saying it's what we free market supporters are advocating. It's not.

That's the free market for you, right there.

CR

[Strike For The South]

That example was terrible. Absolutely terrible. You should feel bad Phillip

As far as the suggestions go, grand sweeping changes work well in hypotheticals, but can't be implemented readily in a society where parameters are already set.

[Kralizec]

That example was terrible. Absolutely terrible. You should feel bad Phillip

I agree. If you're going to use some far fetched excuse to post porn in the backroom I expect better than this. Try again.

[Beskar]

I agree. If you're going to use some far fetched excuse to post porn in the backroom I expect better than this. Try again.

I was looking at the list, apparently the evils that PVC are making example of are less popular than "pretty flowers", "shiney sword" and "pretty lights".

From this assumption, I think oblivion players are tree hugging hippies with a crow-like tendencies than depriving in lustful temptations.

[HoreTore]

That example was terrible. Absolutely terrible. You should feel bad Phillip

As far as the suggestions go, grand sweeping changes work well in hypotheticals, but can't be implemented readily in a society where parameters are already set.

Small changes over time is the way to change things.

[Papewaio]

Absent regulation (and I do support environmental regulations) there are things that stop dumping toxic chemicals; private agreements between the company and people who live nearby, the shareholders/workers not wanting the dumping of chemicals because they don't want to ingest chemicals, etc. But that's beside the point.

You're arguing a position that no one is taking, and then saying it's what we free market supporters are advocating.
CR

Right because no good idea has unintentional consequences or people who will exploit something for money.

Read up how western companies export industrial waste to third world countries.

Pollute rivers with mine tailings.

Coal seam fracking

Bhopal

[HoreTore]

Right because no good idea has unintentional consequences or people who will exploit something for money.

Read up how western companies export industrial waste to third world countries.

Pollute rivers with mine tailings.

Coal seam fracking

Bhopal

You don't have to go any further than Naples, really...