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Thread: teh gunz Ctrl

  1. #31
    Member Centurion1's Avatar
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    Default Re: teh gunz Ctrl

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemur View Post
    Absolute hard numbers would be impossible to get, due to privacy laws, but recent studies suggest you're singing from an outdated hymnal.

    1. The military, and especially its senior officers, are more Republican and conservative than the country as a whole. But the extent of this is grossly exaggerated, because the media naturally focuses on the attitudes of the officer corps, particularly more senior officers.
    2. These differences are almost entirely explainable by the demographic makeup of the military, which is self-selected.
    3. As with the rest of the country, the younger cohorts of the military—including its officer corps—are less Republican and less conservative. See, for example, the enormous swings in attitudes on gays in the military over the last 20 years.

    Do you read any of your links?

    http://www.armytimes.com/news/2010/0...vance_041110w/

    The men are not becoming any less conservative really they are simply less vocal about it. A good thing in my mind anyway.

    Just because they are not registering as republicans does not mean they will vote for a republican. Obama's approval rating is around 25% at the moment.

    1. Yes this is very true... your second tid bit which is trying to downgrade the point by saying the officer corp gets superior coverage is irrelevant and merely your attempt o start an argument regarding the poor down trodden enlisted man. Polls don't lie and the media has nothing to do with it. Following your logic every branch of the military is misrepresented besides the marine corps because the corps receives an absurd amount of coverage.

    2. Not my problem. Maybe if more damnyankees wanted to protect the country the numbers would be different.... but they aren't. That's not anyone's fault besides the largely liberal north and urban population.

    3. This it rue and completely unsurprising, however, they are still more likely to be conservative than anything else. Your point on gays is irrelevant. Look at PJ and I. We are both pretty gosh darn conservative and are firmly pro gay marriage, by the time my generation is in control it will be a completely irrelevant issue.

  2. #32

    Default Re: teh gunz Ctrl

    Two states armed hordes of poor, uneducated people whose best source of information was weekly newspapers and guys standing on corners shouting
    My point was that placing the ACW in the context of 'armed populaces and the effectiveness of their resistance against oppressive states' makes no sense.

    I think a 5-year military draft should be compulsory in place of "high school", to better indoctrinate the young.
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  3. #33
    Nobody expects the Senior Member Lemur's Avatar
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    Default Re: teh gunz Ctrl

    Quote Originally Posted by Centurion1 View Post
    Do you read any of your links?
    Yes. Why?

    This is from 2010; the research cited in my link is generally more recent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Centurion1 View Post
    The men are not becoming any less conservative really they are simply less vocal about it.
    That's not what any of these studies say; rather, there was an abrupt shift away from self-identifying as Republican to self-identifying as independent. Don't know if that holds true two years later.

    Quote Originally Posted by Centurion1 View Post
    merely your attempt o start an argument regarding the poor down trodden enlisted man.
    I want to respond to this sentence, but it doesn't actually make any sense. The politics of officers and enlisted skew slightly differently; that's an empirical fact. So I'm not quite clear on how me quoting an article that points this out is "starting a fight." Feel free to explain.

    Actually, my takeaway from a brief skim of these articles is that if only the military voted, Ron Paul would be President.

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  4. #34
    smell the glove Senior Member Major Robert Dump's Avatar
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    Default Re: teh gunz Ctrl

    Quote Originally Posted by HoreTore View Post
    I only just started reading this book which offers a different perspective on graphy-graphs....
    I have heard of this book and would like to read it. Mainly because I am interested on the benchmark it uses for equality, because as modern times show us, this word has a very subjective meaning
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    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: teh gunz Ctrl

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Robert Dump View Post
    I have heard of this book and would like to read it. Mainly because I am interested on the benchmark it uses for equality, because as modern times show us, this word has a very subjective meaning
    I can spoil the fun for you, if you want?
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  6. #36
    smell the glove Senior Member Major Robert Dump's Avatar
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    Default Re: teh gunz Ctrl

    Knock yourself out, I am about as likely to read a book as I am to have sex without paying.

    Let me guess, in the spirit of things, true equality = assault rifle for every adult??
    Baby Quit Your Cryin' Put Your Clown Britches On!!!

  7. #37
    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: teh gunz Ctrl

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Robert Dump View Post
    Knock yourself out, I am about as likely to read a book as I am to have sex without paying.

    Let me guess, in the spirit of things, true equality = assault rifle for every adult??
    Nah, they used the RPG-index...

    They used two standards, actually. For international comparisons, they used the difference between the top 20 and the bottom 20 percent in society. For comparisons between the ststes in the US, they used the gini-index. This is because they didn't want to be accused of making their own numbers or using a favourable index, so they used the data available from the UN and the US Census, which uses these methods.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

  8. #38
    smell the glove Senior Member Major Robert Dump's Avatar
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    Default Re: teh gunz Ctrl

    NM answered my own question
    Last edited by Major Robert Dump; 07-24-2012 at 00:11.
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  9. #39
    Part-Time Polemic Senior Member ICantSpellDawg's Avatar
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    Default Re: teh gunz Ctrl

    Guns are good. Keep them highly legal. Make it easier for people to carry them wherever they are unless they have serious mental illness or a violent criminal record. These situations are part of life and I'd rather a life with the odd gun tragedy (approx 2 dozen per year) than a life without guns readily available to law abiding citizens. I'd like the statistics of how many of the sheeple in that place were carrying themselves. Probably not too many, but I'll wait for the data to make a conclusion.

    Men and women without weapons are prey, it is smart to arm yourselves at all times to increase your status on the food chain.
    Last edited by ICantSpellDawg; 07-24-2012 at 01:26.
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    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: teh gunz Ctrl

    Okay, first things first, the American people are entirely to comfortable to revolt. Even if we did the media would marginalize the first patriots terrorists and we would cheer as their brains were splattered all over the street.

    An armed resistance against a tyrannical domestic government is the kind of thing Terry Nichols jerks it to and has no basis in reality.

    Is there an actual reason for this man to be able to acquire some of things he had on his person? No, there really is not. The weapons he had were for killing lots of people, very quickly. You can't defend ownership of this weapon. Actually you can, but the only argument you have is, it's my right. Which really isn't an argument at all.

    Guns should be legal, but lets not be blind to the fact that there are some types of firearms and specs civilians should not be able to own because there only purpose is to inflict death.
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

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  11. #41
    In the shadows... Member Vuk's Avatar
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    Default Re: teh gunz Ctrl

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    ...because there only purpose is to inflict death.
    By that logic just about any firearm would be illegal. There are two major reasons why you cannot make assault rifles and high-capacity magazines illegal.
    1st: There is no real way to get a solid, unchanging definition of either, and soon the law would be used to ban every type of firearm and magazine on earth.

    2nd: Maybe I want a weapon that can kill, but that does not mean that I want it to kill people with, but because I like to collect it and show it off. If I own a claymore (the sword), I would own something designed just to kill, but I obviously would not own it to kill with. I would own it because I think it is really cool, and would like to own it, train with it, and just bloody be able to touch it. It is no different with guns. I would love to own an MG42 and an M60 some day. Not to kill anyone with, but just because they are really cool, and I would love to shoot them, see their effects on a target, and feel what it is like. Did it ever occur to you that people may have motives for buying full auto guns other than killing people?
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    In a racial conflict I'd have no problem popping off some negroes.

  12. #42
    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: teh gunz Ctrl

    By that logic just about any firearm would be illegal.
    Rifles and shotguns have an obvious other purpose, as do handguns. I would consider both hunting and self defense to be valid reasons for owning a firearm. A automatic rifle fits no logical criteria. I'm sorry but your desires as a hobbyist do not overrule the fact that these are weapons with no real purpose other than to take life in an offensive, undiscerning manner.

    The fact of the matter is guns do kill people. The tired old trope about a gun being just a tool is a fallacy.
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

  13. #43

    Default Re: teh gunz Ctrl

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    Rifles and shotguns have an obvious other purpose, as do handguns. I would consider both hunting and self defense to be valid reasons for owning a firearm. A automatic rifle fits no logical criteria. I'm sorry but your desires as a hobbyist do not overrule the fact that these are weapons with no real purpose other than to take life in an offensive, undiscerning manner.

    The fact of the matter is guns do kill people. The tired old trope about a gun being just a tool is a fallacy.
    Where to begin.

    The shooter was not using an automatic rifle. What the shooter did could have been done with any semiautomatic hunting rifle.

    Also, it is easy to ban things you have no interest in.

    Finally, what kind of gun is this?

    Last edited by PanzerJaeger; 07-24-2012 at 06:47.

  14. #44
    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: teh gunz Ctrl

    It looks like an overpriced rifle that matches with the overpriced camo. I assume you are trying to make a point that this could be banned and this happy woman with her pearly whites will be robbed of her freedom. Let's not go off the deep end sweetie. I believe the assault rifle he used was a class 3? with the extended clip? how is that anything but an offensive weapon?

    Everyone points to standing up to a tyrannical government or shooting an irredeemably evil mugger but that never happens. You know what does happen? accidental deaths and school shootings.

    I'm not here to take away guns, just looking for compromise. Some people will not be miffed by this shooting or any other for that matter. They claim that a few CHLs in the crowd would have taken care of business. I doubt it. Dark, smoke filled room, 15 feet between you and a moving target, covered in tac gear. That's a heavy order even for the most experienced.
    ,
    I'll admit I have little interest in guns, I shoot with my father and friends occasionally but that's about all these days. Granted I could still out shoot you but that has more to do with Texas than anything else.
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

  15. #45
    Arena Senior Member Crazed Rabbit's Avatar
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    Default Re: teh gunz Ctrl

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    It looks like an overpriced rifle that matches with the overpriced camo. I assume you are trying to make a point that this could be banned and this happy woman with her pearly whites will be robbed of her freedom. Let's not go off the deep end sweetie. I believe the assault rifle he used was a class 3? with the extended clip? how is that anything but an offensive weapon?
    It wasn't class three. It was a semi auto with, apparently, a 100 round drum magazine, which jammed, as they are wont to do.

    Everyone points to standing up to a tyrannical government or shooting an irredeemably evil mugger but that never happens. You know what does happen? accidental deaths and school shootings.
    Well gee, since we haven't descended into tyranny yet, let's assume it will never happen.



    CR
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  16. #46
    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: teh gunz Ctrl

    I'll take those odds.

    In 60 years when were both on our deathbeds and nothing has happened, I will collect.
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

  17. #47

    Default Re: teh gunz Ctrl

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    It looks like an overpriced rifle that matches with the overpriced camo. I assume you are trying to make a point that this could be banned and this happy woman with her pearly whites will be robbed of her freedom. Let's not go off the deep end sweetie. I believe the assault rifle he used was a class 3? with the extended clip? how is that anything but an offensive weapon?
    No, it wasn't Class 3. Your position is far easier to understand now, as it is clear that you do not understand anything.

    Everyone points to standing up to a tyrannical government or shooting an irredeemably evil mugger but that never happens. You know what does happen? accidental deaths and school shootings.
    You're suggesting that people do not defend themselves against assailants with firearms in the US?

    I'm not here to take away guns, just looking for compromise. I'll admit I have little interest in guns,
    I would suggest that in order to formulate such a compromise, you have to at least understand the basics. Of course this is the backroom, so that is certainly not a requirement.



    Finally, and unrelated to the above, these are the people the gun-grabbers want us to outsource our personal security to. No thanks.

    Last edited by PanzerJaeger; 07-24-2012 at 07:23.

  18. #48

    Default Re: teh gunz Ctrl

    Quote Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger View Post
    Well, try Iraq or Afghanistan.

    The United States is also an enormous country with a comparatively tiny military to civilian ratio. If the US military with all of its sophisticated weaponry cannot subdue Afghanistan, there is no way it could subdue the Rocky Mountain region, much less the entire nation - and that's before the possibility of defections/outside assistance/etc. is considered.

    Sure, small arms will not allow a direct confrontation, but that is never the way these things work out. Small arms do give you a chance at guerrilla conflict. They give you time and options.
    What made those areas dangerous were mostly IEDs, RPGs and mortars. Guns were a factor too, but not as much as the IED.
    Wooooo!!!

  19. #49
    Darkside Medic Senior Member rory_20_uk's Avatar
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    Default Re: teh gunz Ctrl

    The fact you can go hunting with a truck mounted machine gun doesn't suddenly mean that it should be legalised. I can eat dinner with a combat knife. It does not make it an acceptable thing to do.

    Altering definitions to fit the current guns has been done in the past when machine guns were made illegal. The initial definition was something along the lines of a gun that has a continual rate of fire on depression of the trigger. Of course, someone made a weapon that fires the whole magazine on pressing the trigger once. The laws were quickly changed - without banning all guns!

    Varying barriers to ownership would be another approach. You want a .22 pistol that holds 6 bullets? Relatively easy to get hold of. A desert eagle .50 with an extended mag? Possibly some more information is needed, starting with "WHY?"

    The really lethal things could be allowed only in designated areas under the control of a gun club which in turn is closely monitored. Then those poor individuals who can only get hard after firing a mini-gun have hope.

    In muggings, pepper spray / chilli spray or a tazer works, and ensures that some panicked accountant doesn't drill someone 50 metres away because their aim is so poor that they missed the person approaching asking for directions. That the person who is to be mugged draws a weapon faster than the mugger either means they are supernaturally fast or isn't a factor that should be looked at too closely (I assume everyone walks around with a loaded pistol in their hands - just in case.

    An enemy that wishes to die for their country is the best sort to face - you both have the same aim in mind.
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  20. #50
    Arena Senior Member Crazed Rabbit's Avatar
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    Default Re: teh gunz Ctrl

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    I'll take those odds.

    In 60 years when were both on our deathbeds and nothing has happened, I will collect.
    And that may be because the people have AR-15s and the like and the government is kept fearful.

    In muggings, pepper spray / chilli spray or a tazer works, and ensures that some panicked accountant doesn't drill someone 50 metres away because their aim is so poor that they missed the person approaching asking for directions. That the person who is to be mugged draws a weapon faster than the mugger either means they are supernaturally fast or isn't a factor that should be looked at too closely (I assume everyone walks around with a loaded pistol in their hands - just in case.
    That's ridiculous. Pepper spray and tasers are very inferior alternatives. Also, civilians hit innocent bystanders ~1/5 as often as police do when shooting.

    But I can see this thread is beginning to descend into anti-gun folks positing hypothetical scenarios they know nothing about as arguments for their position.

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  21. #51

    Default Re: teh gunz Ctrl

    Quote Originally Posted by rory_20_uk View Post
    The fact you can go hunting with a truck mounted machine gun doesn't suddenly mean that it should be legalised. I can eat dinner with a combat knife. It does not make it an acceptable thing to do.

    Altering definitions to fit the current guns has been done in the past when machine guns were made illegal. The initial definition was something along the lines of a gun that has a continual rate of fire on depression of the trigger. Of course, someone made a weapon that fires the whole magazine on pressing the trigger once. The laws were quickly changed - without banning all guns!

    Varying barriers to ownership would be another approach. You want a .22 pistol that holds 6 bullets? Relatively easy to get hold of. A desert eagle .50 with an extended mag? Possibly some more information is needed, starting with "WHY?"

    The really lethal things could be allowed only in designated areas under the control of a gun club which in turn is closely monitored. Then those poor individuals who can only get hard after firing a mini-gun have hope.

    In muggings, pepper spray / chilli spray or a tazer works, and ensures that some panicked accountant doesn't drill someone 50 metres away because their aim is so poor that they missed the person approaching asking for directions. That the person who is to be mugged draws a weapon faster than the mugger either means they are supernaturally fast or isn't a factor that should be looked at too closely (I assume everyone walks around with a loaded pistol in their hands - just in case.

    Or... and here's a really crazy idea... we don't let the occasional madman dictate our rights. Do you know how often these weapons are actually used in crimes? Your little six round pistol would be a better candidate for confiscation if your goal is really about preventing gun violence.
    Last edited by PanzerJaeger; 07-24-2012 at 07:42.

  22. #52
    Darkside Medic Senior Member rory_20_uk's Avatar
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    Default Re: teh gunz Ctrl

    Quote Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger View Post
    Or... and here's a really crazy idea... we don't let the occasional madman dictate our rights. Do you know how often these weapons are actually used in crimes? Your little six round pistol would be a better candidate for confiscation if your goal is really about preventing gun violence.
    Yeah! Landmines for all! That should be a right - and as far as I am aware, no one in the USA has died due to one, so allowing everyone to have them is a good idea...

    I am capable of having views before a stoner offs a theatre full of people. I'd go as far as to say I couldn't care less that he did. Did this even cause a blip in the average daily deaths? Nope - so what makes them special?

    An enemy that wishes to die for their country is the best sort to face - you both have the same aim in mind.
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  23. #53

    Default Re: teh gunz Ctrl

    Quote Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube View Post
    That's not entirely true. The leading causes of death varied from year to year (and AO to AO), usually going back and forth between IEDs and Small Arms.
    I know what I'm talking about. My cousin is a ranger who used to serve in Iraq. I'm old enough to remember when the Soviets withdrew from Afghanistan. It would've been a walk in the park for the Soviets if the Afghanis only had guns. I've been reading books on both the Iraqi and Afghan situations.
    Last edited by Shaka_Khan; 07-24-2012 at 09:04.
    Wooooo!!!

  24. #54
    Master of useless knowledge Senior Member Kitten Shooting Champion, Eskiv Champion Ironside's Avatar
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    Default Re: teh gunz Ctrl

    Quote Originally Posted by ICantSpellDawg View Post
    Guns are good. Keep them highly legal. Make it easier for people to carry them wherever they are unless they have serious mental illness or a violent criminal record. These situations are part of life and I'd rather a life with the odd gun tragedy (approx 2 dozen per year) than a life without guns readily available to law abiding citizens. I'd like the statistics of how many of the sheeple in that place were carrying themselves. Probably not too many, but I'll wait for the data to make a conclusion.

    Men and women without weapons are prey, it is smart to arm yourselves at all times to increase your status on the food chain.
    You are aware that the food chain is the reason for about every stupid gun crime done by gangs are you? Status is 100% of appearence, not fact (unless this fact is well known). Ergo, your hidden gun will do nothing, unless you display it and show a willingness to use it.

    Oh, I'm going to run all political violent scenarios with coup attempts just for the fun of it. Left to right.
    Violent commie coup. Lol, no chance of being successful in the US.
    Organized social disorder. Large unemployment in urban areas. Some charismatic revolutionary leftie succeed with starting to create a revolutionary militia, that's boosted by the amount of guns. Is either put down by the military, with a golden opportunity to increase suppression (due to civil war) or succeeds with the revolution.
    Anarchists. Like above, but without any major organisation. Will fail.
    Hippies and pacifists. Ugh right.
    Social democrats takes power through democratic elections (real ones. There's no way the power players in the US would support social democracy, so a coup is impossible). A violent minority boosted b plenty of guns opposes them. Get's beaten down. Will either make themself totally aloof or will be beaten down so harshly that the popluation will sympatize with them and influence the next election.
    Military coup. Will be trying to get full support from the military and as much of the population as possible. Only feasible if the military is more or less openly willing to beat down parts of their own population.
    Libertarian coup. Very unlikely. Would probably break up the US if successful and honest. Othervise it's a Value Coup.
    Values coup. A pre-emptiveish (it might happen after an election) strike against those who threatens "the true American values". Depends fully on military support to be successful, in particular since it will always be oppressive (the values needs to be ensured to prevent this again).
    Kleptocracy power grab. Group of superrich more or less openly taking power. Would need to have severe unrest during an economic downturn to become violent. Simular to the Organized social disorder, but probably with an expansion of private military firms guarding the gated communities (or the police/military will start to take that roll).
    Facist takeover. Facists somehow getting enough popular support.

    So it's pretty much the lefties that gain on unregulated guns in case it's needed against the goverment, ironically enough considering the political alignment of those who wants free guns vs the goverment. But it's quite limited in use and there's much better safeguards than the guns, which actually makes it bloodier failures in some scenarios.

    Likehood in order for the US IMO:
    Social Democracy (well not a full one, but militant dissent vs a democrat president is possible)
    Kleptocracy
    Values
    Organized social disorder
    Last edited by Ironside; 07-24-2012 at 11:22.
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  25. #55
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: teh gunz Ctrl

    Quote Originally Posted by rory_20_uk View Post
    Yeah! Landmines for all! That should be a right - and as far as I am aware, no one in the USA has died due to one, so allowing everyone to have them is a good idea...

    I am capable of having views before a stoner offs a theatre full of people. I'd go as far as to say I couldn't care less that he did. Did this even cause a blip in the average daily deaths? Nope - so what makes them special?

    His intention makes him special. Having guns does 't mean you are out to hurt anyone. I would love amore relaxed policy on ownership it is quite rediculous it's so hard to get your hands on what could save your life. I got a crossbow and a handbow that will absolutely shoot right through you, yet that is allowed

  26. #56
    smell the glove Senior Member Major Robert Dump's Avatar
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    Default Re: teh gunz Ctrl

    Quote Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube View Post
    Why would I lie to you?

    Unfortunately, the DoD's casualty lists don't break it down by the type of weapon that caused the death/injury, but I can tell you that in my part of Bagdhad in 2008 Small Arms topped the list for awhile. I'd be interested in seeing the hard numbers if anyone can find them.
    It is pretty consistently IEDs. In fact, in the numbers I saw while leaving in 2012, we had actually had more suicides than small arms death, but that was just FY quarter 1 and spring hadn't started.

    Either way, Afghanistan is not a valid comparison. Neither is the US Civil War.
    Baby Quit Your Cryin' Put Your Clown Britches On!!!

  27. #57
    Forum Lurker Member Sir Moody's Avatar
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    Default Re: teh gunz Ctrl

    I am not going to weigh in on the whole "Guns are needed to defend against the Government" debate - frankly recent conflicts have proved that it can be true (I do however doubt we in the West have the kind of "fight" the Arab citizens seem to - I fully suspect we would roll over and play dead after the first Artillery strike...)

    I do want to point something out though - a few posters have quoted "violence is dropping while gun ownership is rising", both of these statements are true but evidence from the rest of the western world seems to prove they aren't linked

    A recent study which was posted on the BBC website (sorry I cant find the link now) and it showed a steady decline in violence in the UK and in fact the rest of the western world (with occasional spikes from "Serial killers" and Terrorist attacks) for over 2 decades - It has recently hit an all time low in the UK

    The study concludes there has been some sort of cultural shift in the "Western" world which has led to a reduction of Violence in general.

    Another study showed the FEAR of violence has risen in the last decade - I suspect this is the cause of the increase in gun ownership - the study didn't try to conclude why but my money would be on the Media - specifically the news reports of violence.

    As to gun ownership - I have always been in the pro gun control camp, however in the case of school shootings and the recent "shooting spree's" gun control really wouldn't make any difference - these people are unhinged and even if they couldn't buy the guns legally they would have found a way to get what they were after - be it buying the guns illegally or resorting to explosives - Gun control wont stop people like these...

  28. #58

    Default Re: teh gunz Ctrl

    Quote Originally Posted by rory_20_uk View Post
    Yeah! Landmines for all! That should be a right - and as far as I am aware, no one in the USA has died due to one, so allowing everyone to have them is a good idea...
    Reductio ad absurdum, and so soon! I accept your intellectual surrender.


    I am capable of having views before a stoner offs a theatre full of people. I'd go as far as to say I couldn't care less that he did. Did this even cause a blip in the average daily deaths? Nope - so what makes them special?

    Your 'views' are the problem, though. You propose making the type of gun used most frequently in crimes the easiest to get, whilst banning the scary looking stuff that rarely ever gets used. This reinforces my belief that the principal factors motivating people with your views are fear and ignorance.
    Last edited by PanzerJaeger; 07-24-2012 at 13:43.

  29. #59
    Part-Time Polemic Senior Member ICantSpellDawg's Avatar
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    Default Re: teh gunz Ctrl

    Most of the rifles that are available to civilians in the U.S. just look like they have serious teeth. They are generally semi-auto. If it looked like a bunny rabbit and was a semi-auto, people wouldn't think twice, but because it looks like the rifle that "the terrorists" and commies use, it scares people. There are restrictions where I live on automatic weapons. I wish that we could have them, but I understands that, in NY, they don't want everybody to be armed at the level of a SWAT team. I believe that individuals should be armed to the level of a SWAT team, but that's what the democratic process is all about, i guess.

    The idea that armed Americans could do nothing to deter a tyrannical government is faulty, btw. Quite a number of you assume that U.S. Troops would just follow orders on the suppression of mass insurrection. If you know any troops, you know how they think. Do you believe that they would side with the government, or their friends and neighbors that they "joined the military to defend"? Add their desertions and sabotage to the mix and an armed civilian populace would be an effective impediment to a Federal steam roller of rights. I'm just saying. A semi-powerful resistance is the best guarantee that desertions occur. You see these things happen in nations around the world. When the resistance is weak or helpless, it would be suicide to desert the regular military. When the resistance is putting up a fight, every desertion makes the government weaker and the resistance stronger.

    What I fail to understand is this; Some of you guys know the past Presidents, you know the opinions of your friends and neighbors, your government leadership, business leaders, your media personalities. The idea that some of these people would put themselves is a position of total authority over you if they could should be obvious. That they would enforce horrible laws that deteriorate the rights of human beings should be obvious to us. You are constantly warning us of this, the amalgamation of power through unethical means... yet you do not believe that we should have the right to self defense from all of these forces gradually uniting against us. I'm not saying that it is going to happen, only that there are pressures in and away from that direction in constant flux. THings happen that disrupt that flux in favor of one side or the other, but the struggle never goes away, not with youtube, or your favorite president, or current popular opinion, or disney world. Arm yourselves in any way that you can, with weapons, with various types of education, with strong families and communities, with good leadership. But don't buy the "end of history" nonsense..
    Last edited by ICantSpellDawg; 07-24-2012 at 14:42.
    "That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."
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    "If the policy of the government, upon vital questions affecting the whole people, is to be irrevocably fixed by decisions of the Supreme Court...the people will have ceased to be their own rulers, having to that extent practically resigned the government into the hands of that eminent tribunal."
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  30. #60
    Member Centurion1's Avatar
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    Default Re: teh gunz Ctrl

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaka_Khan View Post
    I know what I'm talking about. My cousin is a ranger who used to serve in Iraq. I'm old enough to remember when the Soviets withdrew from Afghanistan. It would've been a walk in the park for the Soviets if the Afghanis only had guns. I've been reading books on both the Iraqi and Afghan situations.
    And GC was actually there..... not to mention everyone i know who went over said small arms was a distant second and then the majority of deaths were from IED blasts. Snipers actually cause some casualties with old hunting rifles and the like since the shooters actually aim unlike the wild spraying you get out of the natives if they are given automatics.
    Last edited by Centurion1; 07-24-2012 at 14:49.

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