U.S. Ambassador and three others killed in Libya.

[Strike For The South]

This just proves how awesome of a social networking tool twitter is.....wait...wrong riot

[Major Robert Dump]

you need to read up on "the life of Brian" or better still watch the Documentary that was produced recently

while there were no acts of Violence the entire cast were inundated with mail threatening violence/death and the film itself was BANNED for quite a while

personally I look on it this way - in the West we have some of the best Police and Security services - the Religions over here are full of the same kind of nut cases you see in the middle east, they just cant get away with the same level of idiocy and generally don't follow through on their vitriol - reverse the situation and the life of Brian could have provoked just he same riots...

Woulda coulda
But they don't

[Major Robert Dump]

I'm sorry but the man is not dead in the photo of him being dragged away. Dead people do not hold their heads up as they are being dragged. Furthermore, that is typically not the manner in which an injured person is assisted, being dragged like that while other take photos.


Dude was alive there.

[Sir Moody]

Woulda coulda
But they don't

as I said - reverse the positions and I bet they would - the riots say more about the societies these people live in than the Religion

we like to pretend to our selves that Christianity has "matured" but the reality is western societies attitudes have matured, not the Religion - actions of the radical Christians in Africa prove that

we don't see violent out bursts on the same scale over here simply because we as a people have come to reject them - in the Middle East they are the norm and that has nothing to do with Islam (more poverty, education and freedom of expression)

[rvg]

as I said - reverse the positions and I bet they would - the riots say more about the societies these people live in than the Religion

we like to pretend to our selves that Christianity has "matured" but the reality is western societies attitudes have matured, not the Religion - actions of the radical Christians in Africa prove that

we don't see violent out bursts on the same scale over here simply because we as a people have come to reject them - in the Middle East they are the norm and that has nothing to do with Islam (more poverty, education and freedom of expression)

How often do you see Lebanese Christian mobs running around killing people over a movie/picture/story/whatever?

[rajpoot]

How often do you see Lebanese Christian mobs running around killing people over a movie/picture/story/whatever?

How often do you see movies making fun of Christ?

Honestly it's never about how any religion is wrong. It's about how people who interpret it are wrong.

[Lemur]

I am sorry Lemur if you felt insulted. I suppose I took your barb about petty, misguided, and misplaced more strongly than you had meant it.

No biggie, @Fisherking, like I said, I just felt it was going to waste bandwidth. Two thoughts: One, I've crossed the line and made inaccurate/misguided/personal attacks in my time. You can't post in the same place for eight years and not wind up committing every sin known to man. Two, I was directing my criticism at your position, not your person. I thought your focus on the PotUS's statement just after the attacks was ... monomaniacal? Hyper-focused? It's a fluid situation, new facts are emerging constantly, our government is responding, and to get so worked up about the initial statement struck me as, well ... misplaced. It was a minor point dressed up in harsher language than it deserved, for which I am sorry.

I know that you have stated on occasion that you are a political independent, and I should except that.

Every now and then I think about registering as a Dem, but inevitably they do something so bone-headed that I can't. But at this moment in U.S. history, I can't imagine voting for a mainstream Repub. The party in its current state would reject Eisenhower, Nixon, Ford, Reagan, and GHWB. (Most repubs now disavow GWB, for what it's worth.) So those who accuse me of being a mindless minion of the Obamessiah have somewhere between 1/4th and 1/8th of a point.

Would, that we all had a news outlet that truthfully informed us and took to task all political viewpoints in just that light. Sadly, there is none.

I'm fond enough of The Economist that I pony up their stupid-high subscription price once a year. It's like a news magazine ... for grownups!

[rvg]

How often do you see movies making fun of Christ?

"The Last Temptation of Christ" comes to mind.

[Lemur]

How often do you see movies making fun of Christ?

Do you ever watch South Park?

[Fragony]

What are the beliefs of Kentucky Fried Chicken, got to wonder as people with culture also attacked the KTC. Leftist people know, for a fact, that they scream for democracy.

[rvg]

What are the beliefs of Kentucky Fried Chicken, got to wonder as people with culture also attacked the KTC. Leftist people know, for a fact, that they scream for democracy.

Yeah, that's messed up. Everyone knows that if some Copt living in America makes an anti-islamic movie, the proper reaction is to go burn down the German Embassy.

[Fisherking]

Yeah, that's messed up. Everyone knows that if some Copt living in America makes an anti-islamic movie, the proper reaction is to go burn down the German Embassy.

Just so you know the British Embassy next door is also under attack.

Well, I guess some Canadians are feeling left out from all the others getting the attention: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle4544551/

[Lemur]

Well, I guess some Canadians are feeling left out from all the others getting the attention: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle4544551/

The group can say they want to screen the film, but I got bad news for 'em: AP reporters have been trying to find the film for days without luck. The only footage anyone can find is the spectacularly awful YouTube trailer.

[Major Robert Dump]

How often do you see movies making fun of Christ?

Honestly it's never about how any religion is wrong. It's about how people who interpret it are wrong.

You're kidding, right?

Christ is a common target of comedians. It's so common no one notices anymore.

And yes, there are crazy christians in africa who do crazy things, things that pale in comparison to stuff like in this thread. Moody has a valid point about the societies, but religion does not get a free pass here

[naut]

The group can say they want to screen the film, but I got bad news for 'em: AP reporters have been trying to find the film for days without luck. The only footage anyone can find is the spectacularly awful YouTube trailer.

There is a longer 13 minute clip on Youtube. It's a spectacularly awful movie. Link for those interested.

[Fragony]

There is a longer 13 minute clip on Youtube. It's a spectacularly awful movie. Link for those interested.

Yeah but still, they act exactly like in the movie

[Viking]

How often do you see Lebanese Christian mobs running around killing people over a movie/picture/story/whatever?

How often do you see Muslim mobs in Qatar and Kuwait running around killing people over a movie/picture/story/whatever?

[rvg]

How often do you see Muslim mobs in Qatar and Kuwait running around killing people over a movie/picture/story/whatever?

You don't. That does not give the Egyptians, Libyans or Tunisians an excuse to do it.

[Fragony]

How often do you see Muslim mobs in Qatar and Kuwait running around killing people over a movie/picture/story/whatever?

What's left to kill

[Viking]

The diplomats. And the camels.

[Kadagar_AV]

Seems like the violence is spreading...

Germany's embassy also seem to have got trashed somewhere.. Just saw some photos of quaran waving fanatics showing what the "religion of peace" think of the German flag and symbols.

I guess they think we in the west will see it as an equal insult, while most of us just see a bunch of inbreeds doing their thing.

Hax, proud day to be muslim much?

[Goofball]

you need to read up on "the life of Brian" or better still watch the Documentary that was produced recently

while there were no acts of Violence the entire cast were inundated with mail threatening violence/death and the film itself was BANNED for quite a while

personally I look on it this way - in the West we have some of the best Police and Security services - the Religions over here are full of the same kind of nut cases you see in the middle east, they just cant get away with the same level of idiocy and generally don't follow through on their vitriol - reverse the situation and the life of Brian could have provoked just he same riots...

Banned, eh? That's pretty harsh. Were any diplomats murdered just because they were of the same nationality of the filmmakers? Did the Israelis storm the British embassy and burn it? Did the Vatican Swiss Guard go on a rampage and slaughter UK fans at the next England/Italy football match?

I've lived in the middle east. The security forces there are much more heavy handed and brutal when it comes to maintaining public order, and they are not hampered by the same pesky legal requirements to adhere to basic human rights principles like we in the west are. If they security forces in the middle east really wanted this kind of thing not to happen, it wouldn't happen. And if they really wanted to catch the people who did it, they would be caught. That will be the real test here: how well they cooperate with the pursuit of those responsible.

[Major Robert Dump]

How often do you see Muslim mobs in Qatar and Kuwait running around killing people over a movie/picture/story/whatever?

Qatar and Kuwait operate with a pretty heavy hand, and they tend to shut down any sort of civil disobedience fairly quickly. Same in Saudi Arabia.

[Hax]

@Goofball: Where did you live?

It should also be noted that the Saudi brand of Wahhabism abhors fitna (disruption of a harmonious society) way more than disbelief. It might help to understand why there's been so little response from Saudi-Arabia. That being said, I think the standard of living in Tunisia, Egypt and Morocco compared to that of Saudi-Arabia actually plays a larger role.

[Major Robert Dump]

Well sure it does, Hax, as poor, illiterate people are more likely to do rash and stupid things. However, one cannot make the argument that it is only the society/culture and not the religion, just like one cannot make the argument that it is only the religion and not the society/culture. We are getting people who want either or, and in reality both factor into the situation.

That being said, their religion is not immune from criticism. On one hand I want to argue that most of those people probably have never even read the Koran, but then again what they are doing in some manner is exactly what the Koran says to do (except its misguided) and they think they are simply following directions. We certainly get the same thing with Christians who pick and choose what to follow in the Bible and ignore the old testament, but again, those people are not rioting by the tens of thousands everytime someone insults them.

The solution is not to ignore obvious associations of the guilty parties, as Sweden likes to do, in hopes that eveyrthing will blow over. The solution is to call a pig a pig, no pun intended

[Goofball]

@Goofball: Where did you live?

It should also be noted that the Saudi brand of Wahhabism abhors fitna (disruption of a harmonious society) way more than disbelief. It might help to understand why there's been so little response from Saudi-Arabia. That being said, I think the standard of living in Tunisia, Egypt and Morocco compared to that of Saudi-Arabia actually plays a larger role.

Saudi Arabia

[PanzerJaeger]

Truly disgusting.

The White House asked YouTube on Tuesday to review an anti-Muslim film posted to the site that has been blamed for igniting the violent protests this week in the Middle East.

Tommy Vietor, spokesman for the National Security Council, said the White House has “reached out to YouTube to call the video to their attention and ask them to review whether it violates their terms of use.”

However, the video remained on the site as of Friday afternoon, and it is posted many other places on the Internet.

Messages to YouTube, and Google, which owns the site, were not immediately returned Friday. On Wednesday, a YouTube spokesperson said the video “is clearly within our guidelines and so will stay on YouTube.”

The spokesperson added, however, that the site restricted access in Libya and Egypt because of the unrest. “We work hard to create a community everyone can enjoy and which also enables people to express different opinions. This can be a challenge because what’s OK in one country can be offensive elsewhere,” the spokesperson said.

The video, a trailer for what the promoters say is full-length film produced in the United States, has been cited as a cause for the some of the violent unrest in several Middle Eastern countries, including Egypt and Yemen. White House Press Secretary Jay Carney said Friday that investigators have no evidence that the protests were caused by anything other than the video.

“It is in response to a video, a film, that we have judged to be reprehensible and disgusting,” Carney said. “That in no way justifies any violent reaction to it, but this is not a case of protest directed at the United States writ large or at U.S. policy. This is in response to a video that is offensive and — to Muslims. Again, this is not in any way justifying violence. And we’ve spoken very clearly out against that and condemned it. And the president is making sure in his conversations with leaders around the region that they are committed, as hosts to diplomatic facilities, that — to protect both personnel and buildings and other facilities that are part of the U.S. representation in those countries.”

This is the scandal Mitt Romney should be highlighting. The White House should be celebrating the fact that we live in a society that allows such a film, not trying to get it censored out of fear of the Muslim rabble. We should never compromise our values in the face of violence.

[a completely inoffensive name]

I lol'd when I read rvg liked the above post. I guess each thread is in its own universe.

[Major Robert Dump]

So we should ban the film?

[Viking]

Qatar and Kuwait operate with a pretty heavy hand, and they tend to shut down any sort of civil disobedience fairly quickly. Same in Saudi Arabia.

The thing is, there were protests in Qatar, and they seem to have been peaceful:

In Qatar, a crowd marched in Doha to the United States Embassy, which became a focal point as worshippers spilled out of afternoon prayers at the large mosque across the street. Some of them held placards that demanded the release of a Qatari man who is being held in prison in the United States.

Justin D. Martin , a journalism professor in Doha, described the protest there and also pointed out the coverage of the Al Jazeera network, which has its headquarters in the city.

Huge protest in #Doha right now. Big event for nation of Qatar. Down the street, #ALJazeera network is rambling on about the Pope
14 Sep 12 Reply Retweet Favorite
Justin D. Martin@Justin_D_Martin
Crazies in the region are burning embassies and fried chicken. People here in #Qatar are protesting peacefully or riding jet skis.
14 Sep 12 Reply Retweet Favorite
Justin D. Martin@Justin_D_Martin
Not sure why Qatar gov is keeping #ALJazeera from reporting Doha protest. The demo is peaceful, no? Is that not cause for pride?

A peaceful demonstration seems to have been held in Kuwait, as well:

In Kuwait, about 200 demonstrators gathered outside the United States embassy late on Wednesday. At one point during the protest, the crowd picks up a chant “Obama, Obama, all of us are Osama.” The protest was reported by a Kuwait news site .

Source for all of the above: http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/201...ti-islam-film/

It's not like the police in Egypt is the most soft-handed in the world, either. Nor in Yemen. In Lebanon, a protester was shot dead by security forces.