rvg, some couple of years later?

[rvg]

double post

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I'm not sure what you're talking about here...

I'm talking strategically - the fact that you are known to torture Muslim detainees is part of the reason why you have mass riots across the Middle East aimed at the US specifically.

You've spent pages and pages calling me weak, trying to get me to say I'd use torture in extremis - but your entire argument hinges on things ever getting that bad, and what I'm trying to tell you is they are getting worse for the US because of things like using torture on detainees.

You're losing the war of ideas, and your people are less safe as a result - look at the deterioration in Pakistan, a former US ally.

[rvg]

I'm talking strategically - the fact that you are known to torture Muslim detainees is part of the reason why you have mass riots across the Middle East aimed at the US specifically.

A part? Yes. A significant part? No.

You've spent pages and pages calling me weak, trying to get me to say I'd use torture in extremis - but your entire argument hinges on things ever getting that bad, and what I'm trying to tell you is they are getting worse for the US because of things like using torture on detainees.

I disagree. Force is something that the terrorists understand and fear. Reasoning with them does not work.

You're losing the war of ideas, and your people are less safe as a result - look at the deterioration in Pakistan, a former US ally.

Our strengthening ties with India are behind the rift with Pakistan. The crowds in the streets mean nothing, Islamabad is just pissed that we're getting friendly with New Delhi.

[Greyblades]

I disagree. Force is something that the terrorists understand and fear. Reasoning with them does not work.

Yeah... how did force work out with the Irish, serbs, and Americans again?

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

A part? Yes. A significant part? No.

The way you conduct the "War on Terror" is about 50% of the reason, the rest is the way you have treated Muslims for the last 50 years or so.

I disagree. Force is something that the terrorists understand and fear. Reasoning with them does not work.

Fear?

What they fear is education and women who aren't afraid of them. You are right that violence is something they understand, that's why they aren't afraid of it. It is not, however, something you understand.

Our strengthening ties with India are behind the rift with Pakistan. The crowds in the streets mean nothing, Islamabad is just pissed that we're getting friendly with New Delhi.

No, it's about your violation of sovereign airspace and killing of Pakistani soldiers, which is why you now need a new regional ally.

[rvg]

The way you conduct the "War on Terror" is about 50% of the reason, the rest is the way you have treated Muslims for the last 50 years or so.

You'll have to elaborate on that...

Fear? What they fear is education and women who aren't afraid of them. You are right that violence is something they understand, that's why they aren't afraid of it.

They aren't afraid of it as long as they feel they can get away with it. Al-Qaeda leadership fears death no less than you or me. They are only good at sending others to their deaths. Life of a fellow muslim is worthless to them. Their own lives however, are precious. When our drones take their precious lives away, not only it is justice, but also a very effective way of beheading the terrorist snake.

It is not, however, something you understand.

Apparently it is the other way around.

No, it's about your violation of sovereign airspace and killing of Pakistani soldiers, which is why you now need a new regional ally.

And they're about to learn that they aren't special. India on the other hand is crucial in building a new anti-China bloc in Asia-Pacific.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

You'll have to elaborate on that...

The short version is that the US is (jointly) responsible for every tin-pot dictator in the Middle East since you overthrew the Iranian government the first time.

They aren't afraid of it as long as they feel they can get away with it. Al-Qaeda leadership fears death no less than you or me. They are only good at sending others to their deaths. Life of a fellow muslim is worthless to them. Their own lives however, are precious. When our drones take their precious lives away, not only it is justice, but also a very effective way of beheading the terrorist snake.

Apparently it is the other way around.

You fear the deaths of American citizens enough to commit war crimes to prevent them - your enemies do not fear the deaths of Muslims, and they probably don't fear their own deaths as much as you fear yours.

That is what you do not understand - theses people are willing to sacrifice more than you do, even though they have less to give.

And they're about to learn that they aren't special. India on the other hand is crucial in building a new anti-China bloc in Asia-Pacific.

They are special - they have nukes.

[rvg]

The short version is that the US is (jointly) responsible for every tin-pot dictator in the Middle East since you overthrew the Iranian government the first time.

Every? Care to name a couple? Because I can sure as hell name a few who came to power without US involvement.

You fear the deaths of American citizens enough to commit war crimes to prevent them - your enemies do not fear the deaths of Muslims, and they probably don't fear their own deaths as much as you fear yours.

That makes them eager to die, so let us oblige them! (yes, I stole that phrase from M2TW)

That is what you do not understand - theses people are willing to sacrifice more than you do, even though they have less to give.

Then they should be given the opportunity to do so.

They are special - they have nukes.

That doesn't make them special. That just means that we cannot allow the Taliban to take over the country. Beyond that, they may slowly rot for all I care.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Every? Care to name a couple? Because I can sure as hell name a few who came to power without US involvement.

Um - Iran I, Iran II: Now with added piety, Iraq, Israel (US involved prematurely ended the British Mandate which is why Palestine is in pieces), Egypt the first time, and I think the second time... you did support Libya and Tunisia at various points, certainly you didn't oppose the overthrow of their monarchies.

And most recently, you screwed the Afghans and bombed the Pakistanis, thereby destabalising the regime further.

I'll grant you that Syria is the Iranians and Russians, but as mentioned Iran is your fault.

That's a big enough list of sins.

That makes them eager to die, so let us oblige them! (yes, I stole that phrase from M2TW)

Killing them serves their purpose - what doesn't serve their purpose is sending doctors to the Middle East with free drugs - killing those doctors only serves their purpose if you send soldiers after them.

Then they should be given the opportunity to do so.

The anti-American movement is based primarily on hatred rather than cold political deliberations - creating more hatred strengthens the movement, creates more recruits.

That doesn't make them special. That just means that we cannot allow the Taliban to take over the country. Beyond that, they may slowly rot for all I care.

Now, imagine how the average Pakistani feels reading that.

[rvg]

That's a big enough list of sins.

No, aside from Iran the rest is a bunch of lies.
Iraq: Baath party was a socialist movement. We most certainly did not bring it to power.
Israel: don't blame us for it, you couldn't hold on to it and got kicked out. Not our fault.
Egypt: Are you talking about that commie Nasser? We most certainly did not support him. Sadat was merely a successor, as was Mubarak.

... you did support Libya and Tunisia at various points, certainly you didn't oppose the overthrow of their monarchies...

This is weak. Just weak. If you have nothing definitive to say, it's better to just say nothing.

And most recently, you screwed the Afghans and bombed the Pakistanis, thereby destabalising the regime further.

No worries, Afghans can have their beloved Taliban back as early as 2014. As for Pakistan, what exactly are you talking about? The border incident? That was a case of mistaken identity. Oh, and neither Afghanistan nor Pakistan are in the Middle East. Just saying.

Killing them serves their purpose - what doesn't serve their purpose is sending doctors to the Middle East with free drugs - killing those doctors only serves their purpose if you send soldiers after them.

Okay doc, good luck. You want to be charitable? Go ahead, but not on my dime.

The anti-American movement is based primarily on hatred rather than cold political deliberations - creating more hatred strengthens the movement, creates more recruits.

They want to hate? Let them. Hatred is a blind and stupid emotion, it can do little harm unless directed by the cool minded puppeteers. We've been eliminating puppeteers, and it's been working out well. Let the savages bathe in their hate, I do not care.

Now, imagine how the average Pakistani feels reading that.

Average Pakistani probably cannot read.

[Sarmatian]

Average Pakistani probably cannot read.

It took 14 pages but we finally got there.

One of the few things I hate more than terrorism is racism.

[rvg]

It took 14 pages but we finally got there.

One of the few things I hate more than terrorism is racism.

The truth isn't racist. Pakistan has 55% literacy rate.

[Fragony]

It took 14 pages but we finally got there.

One of the few things I hate more than terrorism is racism.

They can't, they might be capable to read, but they can't. That is just simply true, personally I think leftist outrage over facts that don't comfirm their oh so deeply felt religion is worst.

[Sarmatian]

They can't, they might be capable to read, but they can't. That is just simply true, personally I think leftist outrage over facts that don't comfirm their oh so deeply felt religion is worst.

There's nothing "leftist" about it, it's about numbers.

The truth isn't racist. Pakistan has 55% literacy rate.

56% actually, but it doesn't matter. When you say than an average Pakistani can't read, it implies than only the select few, like the upper class, can read and normal, average people can not. That is not true as anything over 50% is a majority, thus, majority of Pakistanis are literate.

So, if you wish to be an ass and say that Pakistanis may as well rot for all you care, about 98 million Pakistanis can read it.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

The truth isn't racist. Pakistan has 55% literacy rate.

In that case, if you think Pakistani's are illiterate, you are innumerate.

As Sarmation said, anything over 50% is a majority.

[Tellos Athenaios]

In that case, if you think Pakistani's are illiterate, you are innumerate.

Well, he is. Or perhaps more accurately: rvg is not exactly highly numerate. We saw that in the another science breakthrough Math thread, didn't we?

[Fragony]

There's nothing "leftist" about it, it's about numbers.



56% actually, but it doesn't matter. When you say than an average Pakistani can't read, it implies than only the select few, like the upper class, can read and normal, average people can not. That is not true as anything over 50% is a majority, thus, majority of Pakistanis are literate.

So, if you wish to be an ass and say that Pakistanis may as well rot for all you care, about 98 million Pakistanis can read it.

Threy can rot in hell for all I care, just saying

[Sarmatian]

Threy can rot in hell for all I care, just saying

Freedom of speech is a wonderful thing. You can say what you want.

Doesn't mean you can't be an ass when you exercise it, though.

[Fragony]

Freedom of speech is a wonderful thing. You can say what you want.

Doesn't mean you can't be an ass when you exercise it, though.

I don't mean it, but I am saying it anyway just for the sake of it. But it's really true that most people in Pakistan can't read.

[rvg]

In that case, if you think Pakistani's are illiterate, you are innumerate.

44% or 45% of them are illiterate. That's a fact.

[Hax]

How do you define the average Pakistani, should be the following question.

[rvg]

How do you define the average Pakistani, should be the following question.

And it's a good question. The good way would be to filter out the educated elite from Islamabad, Lahore and Karachi as well as the tribal rabble from the Northwest Frontier province, then look at what's left.


Attachment: World Literacy Map.



P.S. Pakistan isn't doing too well.

[Fragony]

How do you define the average Pakistani.

Asking them if they can read

[Hax]

Sure, I'll let you know the next time I'm in Pakistan. I'll just ask everyone, I guess.

[rvg]

Sure, I'll let you know the next time I'm in Pakistan. I'll just ask everyone, I guess.

By the way, I've always wondered. The people you meet in the Middle East and South Asia, do you tell them that you're a Buddhist (provided that the discussion ventures into religion)? If you do, what's their reaction?

[Fragony]

Sure, I'll let you know the next time I'm in Pakistan. I'll just ask everyone, I guess.

Let them write it down just to be sure

[Hax]

Just a note: I've never even been further east than Ba'albek, Lebanon.

he people you meet in the Middle East and South Asia, do you tell them that you're a Buddhist (provided that the discussion ventures into religion)? If you do, what's their reaction?

Yeah, my uncle asked me four years ago what I believed in. I said I wasn't a Muslim, so he just shrugged and went along with his business. The people in Lebanon were like "lol okay", even the people in Ba'albek whom we knew were Hezbollah. I've had a grand total of one negative reaction in Jerusalem, from this dude who told me that me and my mother were going to hell.

[Fragony]

Just a note: I've never even been further east than Ba'albek, Lebanon.



Yeah, my uncle asked me four years ago what I believed in. I said I wasn't a Muslim, so he just shrugged and went along with his business. The people in Lebanon were like "lol okay", even the people in Ba'albek whom we knew were Hezbollah. I've had a grand total of one negative reaction in Jerusalem, from this dude who told me that me and my mother were going to hell.

Are you insane Hax to meet with Hezbollah, don't do that again please?

[Strike For The South]

Literacy is overrated as a statistic, this thread is proof.

[Hax]

Are you insane Hax to meet with Hezbollah, don't do that again please?

Yeah, I'm crazy. I'm totally crazy.

What you're apparently forgetting is that Hezbollah isn't just a militia, they're a political party with supported by many different people from many different kinds of social environments. What you're also forgetting is that some people are aligned to Hezbollah, but aren't really active about it. Such as sizeable amounts of people in cities such as Ba'albek and Saida.

To be honest, I'm more scared of the Phalange than of Hezbollah right now.