Maritime abortions

[Fragony]

Funny, I have been thinking the same thing about you for 2 years.

Oh shoo

[Strike For The South]

Depends on the time of day and amount of drink.

Now you sound like my first wife

[Ironside]

Their country their rules. If they don't tell me how to live my life I'll politely return the favour. There are more pressing matters like abuse of women on our own soil, things like forced marriage between direct cousins, honour killings and domestic violence. But that gets you disaproving looks at party's as you just got to respect that. Easy to taunt Marocco they can't claw out your eyes. Marocco ain't all that conservative by the way it's hardly Saudi Arabia it's pretty modern

Several of those matters are closely linked to repressing women's rights. One very common way to increase women's rights are to force out concessions thanks to making the current situation untenable.
And spreading this would reduce the crap immigrant women gets from their families in the Netherlands as well. True, longer time scale so not that helpful for those needing help now, but if successful, helpful for those in the future.

[Fragony]

Several of those matters are closely linked to repressing women's rights. One very common way to increase women's rights are to force out concessions thanks to making the current situation untenable.
And spreading this would reduce the crap immigrant women gets from their families in the Netherlands as well. True, longer time scale so not that helpful for those needing help now, but if successful, helpful for those in the future.

Ok you got a point there, still think it's rude though

[HoreTore]

Ok you got a point there, still think it's rude though

Rudeness and hate is what drives the world towards a more peaceful and tolerant place.

[Fragony]

Rudeness and hate is what drives the world towards a more peaceful and tolerant place.

Did someone ever tell you t-

Oh screw it ;)

[Montmorency]

Rudeness and hate is what drives the world towards a more peaceful and tolerant place.

This is why we need to resurrect Hitler.

[Fragony]

This is why we need to resurrect Hitler.

You must have taken the oath, 'I solemny swear I am boring as '

[Montmorency]

Heard that one before?

[Fragony]

Heard that one before?

Not with these exact words but it usually includes Adolf Hitler

[Kralizec]

You're a terrible person because you believe you are right.

The idea a woman has a "right" to an abortion is merely a cultural construct - Moroccan women who want abortions are not of a "different culture" to those who think nobody should ever have an abortion.

Moroccans have the right to self determination - over here we bankrupt people who refuse to accommodate homosexuals in their hotels, there they deny women abortions.

The Moroccans are not very consistent in denying women abortions, I believe I already covered that.

That Morocco is a sovereign state which has the authority to enact its own laws does not mean that the rest of the world has to like what they do. Or that organisations like WoW can't help women from evading these restrictions. From what I know WoW carefully avoids breaking the laws while inside the jurisdiction, and that's all that matters.

Wether you approve or dissaprove of WoW's actions largely depends on your opinion about abortion. I can agree to disagree about that. But please don't give me any nonsense reasons like that the women in question are under some sort of extra-legal obligation to follow their culture's taboos, or that we can't help them to evade them.

In every society there are winners and loses - I can tell you as a Christian in a publicly secular society, I'm not very happy, if I want to be accepted in certain places or in certain careers I have to pretend to be something I'm not.

Sound like any other minority group you know?

Whut? Examples?

[Vladimir]

Now you sound like my first wife

So, have you seen Louis lately?

[Vladimir]

Now you sound like my first wife

So, have you seen Louis lately?

[Fragony]

If you say it a third time he will come for you

[Seamus Fermanagh]

I have exactly zero respect for national borders, or tyranny in general.

It is a duty for every civilized man to force countries to allow abortions. Human rights are universal, not country-specific.

You are aware that pro-life advocates would use your last sentence -- and do -- as the reason WHY abortion should be banned.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Abortion is unjust homicide. People who travel to a country simply to kill the unborn are contemptible.
Travel to these countries to dispense birth control or educate a repressed population and you've got my support. Go there to kill innocent human's and you don't.

I find myself in agreement with you, as my faith teaches that the unborn are possessed of a soul from conception, but would remind you that any number of cultures/religions do NOT ascribe to the view that an unborn child is possessed of a soul. Lacking a soul, such cultures/belief groups would view abortion as no more evil than they would killing animals for food.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

The Moroccans are not very consistent in denying women abortions, I believe I already covered that.

That Morocco is a sovereign state which has the authority to enact its own laws does not mean that the rest of the world has to like what they do. Or that organisations like WoW can't help women from evading these restrictions. From what I know WoW carefully avoids breaking the laws while inside the jurisdiction, and that's all that matters.

Wether you approve or dissaprove of WoW's actions largely depends on your opinion about abortion. I can agree to disagree about that. But please don't give me any nonsense reasons like that the women in question are under some sort of extra-legal obligation to follow their culture's taboos, or that we can't help them to evade them.

I didn't say they had to follow Moroccan culture, I took issue with HoreTore's claim that there was a cultural difference between women who want abortions and those who don't - rather than a personal difference.

If Moroccan law states that women should not be allowed abortions because Moroccan culture conceives of such a thing as wrong then providing Moroccan women with access to abortions is interfering with Moroccan law because we don't agree with their culture.

Whut? Examples?

Here - people keep asking me if I believe in evolution and certain members do not take me seriously or give intellectual consideration to my opinions because they believe they are contaminated by religious thought.

At work - Someone made an inappropriate comment regarding the Archbishop of Canterbury and child molesters (and Anglican priest in general), and then refused to see the comment as offensive or to apolagise even when I told him I felt the comment was inappropriate and uncalled for, and that I had friends who were priests - this was so offensive that it affected my working relationship with said person and management had to intervene and force him to apolagise.

Socially - several times friends of friends have openly abused me or my religion in public for their own amusement. One particularly nasty individual kept this up for about 20 minutes while I was trapped at the table in a crowded pub, and drunk to boot.

Is that enough - or would you like more specific examples?

Maybe you'd like the blow by blow account of what happened when my parents found out?

[Fragony]

'If Moroccan law states that women should not be allowed abortions because Moroccan culture conceives of such a thing as wrong then providing Moroccan women with access to abortions is interfering with Moroccan law because we don't agree with their culture.'

It's tresspassing on their culture imho, screw laws. I don't think very highly of of them but I would never impose myself on them , yet that is exactly is what these attention whores are doing. The greatest proverb we Dutch have is 'live and let live', aka never ever EVER tell someone else how they should live their life. And these attention whores are breaking the law of that consensus

[Greyblades]

The greatest proverb we Dutch have is 'live and let live', aka never ever EVER tell someone else how they should live their life.

And providing abortions for those who ask for it is telling them how they live thier life... how?

Also, the idea that culture is sacred and should not be interfered with just through virtue of being culture, quite frankly I find it insane. Female circumcision is part of african culture, Cannibalism was part of mezo-american killing Jews was part of several european cultures until 70 years ago, killing people of different skin colour was and still is part of several cultures, Paedophillia used to be part of several cultures, just because they are part of culture does not mean such acts get a free pass and go unprotested.

[Fragony]

And providing abortions for those who ask for it is telling them how they live thier life... how?

Also, the idea that culture is sacred and should not be interfered with just through virtue of being culture, quite frankly I find it insane. Female circumcision is part of african culture, killing Jews was part of several cultures until 70 years ago, killing people of different skin colour was and still is part of several cultures, just because they are part of culture does not mean that we should respect them automatically.

What makes you think that I respect them, just being a gentleman.

[Kralizec]

I didn't say they had to follow Moroccan culture, I took issue with HoreTore's claim that there was a cultural difference between women who want abortions and those who don't - rather than a personal difference.

If Moroccan law states that women should not be allowed abortions because Moroccan culture conceives of such a thing as wrong then providing Moroccan women with access to abortions is interfering with Moroccan law because we don't agree with their culture.

One way to look at a culture is that it's an aggregate of opinions and behaviour of a large amount of individuals.

But you're right, I don't agree with their culture in this case. I don't feel any need to show deference to "culture", this one or anyone elses. Like I said, the way somebody thinks about the organisation in my OP is determined largely by how that person thinks about abortion. We don't think that cultural differences are an excuse for gender inequality or wife beating either. So why should "it's their culture, we shouldn't interfere" be a valid line of reasoning in any other case?

Here - people keep asking me if I believe in evolution and certain members do not take me seriously or give intellectual consideration to my opinions because they believe they are contaminated by religious thought.

Well, this is the backroom. Please don't tell me you ever felt intimidated by the atheists bullies here.

At work - Someone made an inappropriate comment regarding the Archbishop of Canterbury and child molesters (and Anglican priest in general), and then refused to see the comment as offensive or to apolagise even when I told him I felt the comment was inappropriate and uncalled for, and that I had friends who were priests - this was so offensive that it affected my working relationship with said person and management had to intervene and force him to apolagise.

Well, jokes like that are funny (to most people, anyway) because they are unappropriate on some level. To be honest it sounds like you're quickly offended. Do you feel the same way about jokes about lawyers, Irish etc?

I realize you have to be more careful with jokes in a work environment, but I've never met anyone who was offended by a priest/bishop joke. Then again catholics are pretty rare where I live and work, most are either godless or protestant.

I vaguely recall how someone (Idaho I think) posted a spoof article in the backroom that was about Tories but framed in such a way that it reminded the reader of radical muslims. You were pissed off then. To be honest I think you're quickly offended.

Socially - several times friends of friends have openly abused me or my religion in public for their own amusement. One particularly nasty individual kept this up for about 20 minutes while I was trapped at the table in a crowded pub, and drunk to boot.

I most certainly don't approve of that behaviour, but it sounds like you just had the back luck of running into obnoxious bigots a couple of times. That's a long way from concluding that you live in an opressive society that's hostile towards your religion, which is how I interpreted your post.

...

Because I can't resist the urge, I'm ending this post with a bishop joke. Don't worry, it's in spoiler tags.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Did you hear the bishop quit his job?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

He wanted to spend more time with the kids

[HoreTore]

You are aware that pro-life advocates would use your last sentence -- and do -- as the reason WHY abortion should be banned.

"human"

[Ironside]

I find myself in agreement with you, as my faith teaches that the unborn are possessed of a soul from conception, but would remind you that any number of cultures/religions do NOT ascribe to the view that an unborn child is possessed of a soul. Lacking a soul, such cultures/belief groups would view abortion as no more evil than they would killing animals for food.

... Don't ever read up on early spontaneous abortions then.

[Fragony]

'I find myself in agreement with you, as my faith teaches that the unborn are possessed of a soul from conception, but would remind you that any number of cultures/religions do NOT ascribe to the view that an unborn child is possessed of a soul. Lacking a soul, such cultures/belief groups would view abortion as no more evil than they would killing animals for food.'

I don't need any religion to be against it don't claim it, in this I am with the religious when it comes to abortion. I see it as a chance denied, and imho nobody has the right to decide.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

One way to look at a culture is that it's an aggregate of opinions and behaviour of a large amount of individuals.

But you're right, I don't agree with their culture in this case. I don't feel any need to show deference to "culture", this one or anyone elses. Like I said, the way somebody thinks about the organisation in my OP is determined largely by how that person thinks about abortion. We don't think that cultural differences are an excuse for gender inequality or wife beating either. So why should "it's their culture, we shouldn't interfere" be a valid line of reasoning in any other case?

Fine - but let's not pretend it's not interference.

Well, this is the backroom. Please don't tell me you ever felt intimidated by the atheists bullies here.

I'm fair game - tell you about the love of my life and I'm mocked, basically branded a pervert, and the information is used by members to directly attack my faith.

How much of that would happen if I were gay, really?

[quote]Well, jokes like that are funny (to most people, anyway) because they are unappropriate on some level. To be honest it sounds like you're quickly offended. Do you feel the same way about jokes about lawyers, Irish etc?

I realize you have to be more careful with jokes in a work environment, but I've never met anyone who was offended by a priest/bishop joke. Then again catholics are pretty rare where I live and work, most are either godless or protestant.

I vaguely recall how someone (Idaho I think) posted a spoof article in the backroom that was about Tories but framed in such a way that it reminded the reader of radical muslims. You were pissed off then. To be honest I think you're quickly offended./quote]

Idaho likes to paint Tories as evil - which was what offended me, the article was not clever or funny.

Accusing the clergy of being child molesters en masse is not funny either.

I most certainly don't approve of that behaviour, but it sounds like you just had the back luck of running into obnoxious bigots a couple of times. That's a long way from concluding that you live in an opressive society that's hostile towards your religion, which is how I interpreted your post.

How many times does it have to happen before it's a pattern.

Because I can't resist the urge, I'm ending this post with a bishop joke. Don't worry, it's in spoiler tags.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Did you hear the bishop quit his job?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

He wanted to spend more time with the kids

Why is that funny?

Is it because it offends me?

If so, why is that fun?

Point proved, I think. I'll leave you to it.

[Fragony]

'Accusing the clergy of being child molesters en masse is not funny either.'

No it really isn't.

[Greyblades]

What makes you think that I respect them, just being a gentleman.

Respect, as in respect thier soverignty by not interfering, not respect as in think it's a good thing.

[HoreTore]

'Accusing the clergy of being child molesters en masse is not funny either.'

No it really isn't.

Oh Frags, you make me giggle like a schoolgirl sometimes...

Respect, as in respect thier soverignty by not interfering, not respect as in think it's a good thing.

the UDHR makes not respecting sovereignty an obligation, not a choice.

[Fragony]

Respect, as in respect thier soverignty by not interfering, not respect as in think it's a good thing.

There is no reason to interfere in Marocco have you ever been there. Leftist people furiously scream for respect but will just never accept that they don't understand anything.

[Kralizec]

How much of that would happen if I were gay, really?

DevDave and Navaros come to mind. The stuffy they said about homosexuals (and from the latter, atheists) was much more outrageous than any "anti-christian" bashing I've seen on this board. I laughed at most of that, too. To be fair DevDave was often just joking around. Navaros was dead serious, which is why he was funny.

Idaho likes to paint Tories as evil - which was what offended me, the article was not clever or funny.

Accusing the clergy of being child molesters en masse is not funny either.

I disagree on both.

How many times does it have to happen before it's a pattern.

How about daily, or at least once in every couple of days.

Why is that funny?

Is it because it offends me?

If so, why is that fun?

Point proved, I think. I'll leave you to it.

Pedo-priest jokes are funny because they're outrageous. I don't think the "outrage-factor" is that it's offensive to christians, but that it's about pedophelia.

My range of humor is very inclusive. If you know any good jokes about atheists, especially if they're offensive, please tell me.

Have you ever laughed at a joke that targets Germans, referencing WW2? Retard jokes? Irish, Scots, lawyers, or any other kind of joke that could be offensive to the people it refers to?